So you say you agree with Jnani in her (controversial) view of the notion that healing is detrimental to health (?), but then go on to have finally found a therapy that HAS worked for you, notably in releasing your anger. I am wondering what mind techniques you tried since it is obvious to me that a "major life changing trauma" is best dealt with that way, e.g. counselling which has not been mentioned.

Was it recently that you successfully used EFT in overcoming your anger? If so, then the physical symptoms you experience (which, presumably relate to the original condition/source of anger) may take a while to dissipate. Perhaps more information on this would be beneficial for feedback.

Incidentally I strongly disagree with Jnani with her dissing of healing. Whilst there is something to be said for not seeing self as broken, it is a question of degree..... For something to need to be healed does not entail disempowering self per se.... just that something needs attention, that's all.

It would help if Jnani could specify what therapies she has found to be a 'hinderance'. Clearly not all therapies can be dismissed in this fashion and I find it grossly irresponsible and a sweeping, inaccurate statement that she has said this. I question why she would want to be a member of a forum when she is so clearly against the nature of what it is about!!!

Wow! I was hoping for a gentler response than this, given that it’s taken quite a bit of courage to post this in the first place! I didn’t say I agreed with jnani’s post, I found it an interesting angle and one I think is a valid point and has given me something to think about, at what point do you call it a day?

Yes, EFT has helped with the anger – but it’s taken nigh on ten years and a lot of damage via other therapies to get here. I found a hindrance, and I’ll never do it again, is homeopathy and also shamanic healing. I tried this for several months, years apart and it had a distinctive negative effect on me, to add to the trauma, so I’ll never go near either again.

As I said, given that EFT has helped, I want to give that another go. I’ve recently purchased a book by Gary Craig so I’m aware of all the steps, advice, shortcuts etc. If that doesn’t work, that maybe I have to accept the fact that nothing will – and it’s that which I found potentially liberating in Jnani’s post – reaching that point. And yes, I am aware that the physical body takes longer to heal.

I am sorry if my post was a little too outspoken for you but, given the title of this thread on such a forum, you must have realised it is controversial!? To be fair, Jnani's attack on healing therapies was quite savage and overlooked any positives.

Of course finding the right therapy is key when it comes to healing. Whilst EFT was successful for you in overcoming your anger, now that you are addressing physical symptoms, i.e. not mind over matter, I am wondering whether it would be more beneficial to turn to a more suitable form of treatment. Without knowing what these symptoms are then feedback is unlikely to be accurate. Do you wish to disclose what these are so that others here may be able to offer you their ideas/thoughts?

Jnani – I hope you don’t mind me re-printing below some of what you said on another thread because it feels so significant for me (and I didn’t want to hijack another person’s thread).

Quote: “Heal your self is a very common idea in present times. When you seek healing, it is telling you consciously and subconsciously that you are broken, not normal, need mending and fixing. And until that happens, you can't live normally. That is the biggest damage therapy has done at large. It helps if sought specifically for one specific obstacle and then go on to live as best as you can. But the way the therapy works is, it keeps diagnosing so much wrong....that therapy, the expert, the help itself become the biggest hinderance to normal functionality. Therapy is unsettling. People can't see it because of desperation. It buggers people up.” Quote end.

The main reason I joined this forum was to eventually post about my experience and gain some support or ideas – but frankly I haven’t had the courage. But the words on your post have had such a profound impact.

When you said .... “ that you are broken, not normal, need mending and fixing. And until that happens, you can't live normally.” This is how I’ve been existing for the past ten years, trying to heal from a major life changing trauma which has resulted in two physical symptoms. Although one of the symptoms started several months afterwards and one a few years after, I’ve only just come to know for sure the link between the trauma and the symptoms (via several sessions with different mediums). I have spent hundreds of hours on the net searching for cures from supplements, herbal remedies, mind techniques etc. I’ve had acupuncture, homeopathy, cranio sacral therapy, vibrational remedies (a whole year of), reiki, changes in food, mindfulness, EFT, Tapas Acupressure Technique and so on. Up until a few months ago, nothing has made the slightest difference – except making me probably a few thousand pounds worse off. On a four separate occasions, via “therapy” it made me worse and those changes for the worse have stayed with me.

The last session I had with a medium, he told me I had to use my mind to overcome the trauma. But no advice on how exactly – if it was just a matter of having a strict word with myself I would have done that 10 years ago. However, I did EFT a few months ago for the overwhelming anger I have from the experience, and I have to say that has worked, the anger isn’t there anymore. Also, just recently, I have tried Australian Bush Flower Essences; the first couple I’ve taken really seemed to help. So I tried Fringed Violet which is for healing trauma from long ago including healing the aura (which I understood from the medium to be in need of repair). I took it for the recommended two weeks but was glad to stop as towards the end it made me sluggish and dopey. But even now, two weeks on from stopping, I don’t feel my usual self, I’ve got no enthusiasm, no drive for anything. So once again, I’m thinking maybe I shouldn’t have done that!

So my next plan is to do more EFT. But like you said, at what point do you call it a day? Maybe I just simply accept this has happened and just live with the physical symptoms.

The shift has taken place. It will continue to deepen. Stay accepting. Acceptance is seldom taught, because how can they teach whet they do 't have? A pauper sharing million dollars, never.
So most therapy is a hard processing of unwanted symptoms, situations, emotions....what good can it possibly do? In the long run it is more damaging than suffering itself. People get caught in this web. Don't know how to get out. In the same web, therapists are caught too. Trying to drum up business, get clients, get people to heal, find the issues....create issues, give their insight, give their treatment. Same dynamic. Healy and healers are playing the same game. Therapist desperate for clients.....how can they take you beyond desperation. The energy is stuck in want and also glory of their own expertise and what they know.

As I said, a small help in specific issue, that is how far therapy should be taken. Discard and come out of healings, therapy and self development, self growth mode as soon as that particular issue is dealt with.

Relax. I use 12 tissue remedies, mudras, just plain speaking to bring about shifts. Ordinary is extraordinary. We in India, never know of healing...and yet healing takes place, people speak, talk, normal chat nothing metaphysical, no special intention other than to connect with tge next person. Wisdom flows that heals. I heard of reiki only in the UK. Yet I was always helping and being helped by family, friends, acquaintances, even maids, servants...everyone had the same share of the process.

I remember my dad died and months later, heavy sorrow hung over me. this maid held my hand and said nothing....her touch was so present and full that I felt instantly light. Unpretentious is the way of life. I still remember her holding my hand. She took away intense pain even if the grieving carried on for lot longer

You ask, What do you do with physical symptoms?
Decide specifically, what you want healed and then work very precisely, allow the pain with your breath and let it move.EFT may well work but again it is endless. I had to drop everything in the end, throwing baby with the bath water...we all have to do that in the end.

Breathe nicely. Breathe, just breathe easy. Remember to breathe. Your physical symptoms will alleviate. Relax.
Stop chasing well being like a headless chicken, breathe. Breathe with your daughter, she will enjoy just sitting and not doing anything else other than breathing nicely. Forget about what you are meant to be fixing...stay oblivious. Start living, you are as good as the person who is trying to fix you, promise

Know that ther is nothing to fix and if there is no bugger can do it for you.
Liberation!

Interesting that jnani ends her post with "there is nothing to fix" having outlined what you could do! Hmmm

"No bugger can do it for you" is insulting and inaccurate. The 'bugger' can help lead the way i.e. some people need guidance and the help of a professional - not that they do all the work, since compliance paves the way too.

I do concede that jnani has a point about some therapies having a vested interest in keeping you coming back. However, whether this is true of the majority of practises would be questionable....I doubt that she has done a survey and is just voicing off having found it to be true of some therapies. Hence sweeping statements can be seen for what they are, i.e. wide off the mark!

Incidentally I strongly disagree with Jnani with her dissing of healing. Whilst there is something to be said for not seeing self as broken, it is a question of degree..... For something to need to be healed does not entail disempowering self per se.... just that something needs attention, that's all.

It would help if Jnani could specify what therapies she has found to be a 'hinderance'. Clearly not all therapies can be dismissed in this fashion and I find it grossly irresponsible and a sweeping, inaccurate statement that she has said this. I question why she would want to be a member of a forum when she is so clearly against the nature of what it is about!!!

I was mystified for along time, how some members get banned....thank you I know exactly how, it's people like you getting offended and insulted. It is easy done, given that so Taking it personally and seriously. Very open minded and open hearted of you.
If I am banned, goodbye people, had a great ride!

I was mystified for along time, how some members get banned....thank you I know exactly how, it's people like you getting offended and insulted. It is easy done, given that so Taking it personally and seriously. Very open minded and open hearted of you.
If I am banned, goodbye people, had a great ride!

Wow...twisted thinking, much!? Huh?

I dare say that MANY here will be offended by your strong dissing of therapies here! Whether or not they will have the guts to speak out - like I have - remains to be seen. When you diss something, how is it not offensive????? Luckily I am not a therapist, so I did not take it personally i.e. was not insulted. I wonder if you can see any good/positives from therapies (since you seem to imply that you are open minded and open hearted whereas I am not, apparently)? Countless numbers of clients are successfully treated and walk away cured. I AM open minded which is how I recognise that your juggernaut negative view is VERY far from it!!!

"Taking it personally and seriously"....what can be made of that remark? That you were joking? If so, I missed the punchline.

Wow...twisted thinking, much!? Huh?

I dare say that MANY here will be offended by your strong dissing of therapies here! Whether or not they will have the guts to speak out - like I have - remains to be seen. When you diss something, how is it not offensive????? Luckily I am not a therapist, so I did not take it personally i.e. was not insulted. I wonder if you can see any good/positives from therapies (since you seem to imply that you are open minded and open hearted whereas I am not, apparently)? Countless numbers of clients are successfully treated and walk away cured.

"Taking it personally and seriously"....what can be made of that remark? That you were joking? If so, I missed the punchline.

Now you are fighting battles on everyone's behalf. A warrior!

If you notice, you have jumped in a dialogue which really didn't include you. You are not a therapist, guess you would be harsher if you were one?! But hey it's a forum so you have license to meddle in when two are speaking even when it Is quite clear it is addressed to each other via quotes. And you that on fairly regular basis....because it is a forum....

One thing is clear from your reply, you have not bothered to read the entire post, picked up bits, reacted, took offense or whatever else. I still don't expect you to read what I said and try to understand it. Or you would not be saying daft things like therapy helps etc....your reply is your inner response. Each to their own

You are free to react the way you want. I am quite happy for you to presume that all others are about to be offended too and have as much of it as you like.
I said something that does not sit well with you. I am ok with that.

Now you are fighting battles on everyone's behalf. A warrior!

If you notice, you have jumped in a dialogue which really didn't include you. You are not a therapist, guess you would be harsher if you were one?! But hey it's a forum so you have license to meddle in when two are speaking even when it Is quite clear it is addressed to each other via quotes. And you that on fairly regular basis....because it is a forum....

One thing is clear from your reply, you have not bothered to read the entire post, picked up bits, reacted, took offense or whatever else. I still don't expect you to read what I said and try to understand it. Or you would not be saying daft things like therapy helps etc....your reply is your inner response. Each to their own

You are free to react the way you want. I am quite happy for you to presume that all others are about to be offended too and have as much of it as you like.
I said something that does not sit well with you. I am ok with that.

I think I can safely say that therapists here would be offended by negatively appraising their professions...does that make me a warrior? Ha!

I have not 'jumped in' - implying I am intruding. I would be 'meddling' if it were a private conversation. Since it is NOT a private conversation, I find your perception distorted and revealing. Ray Of Light started this thread and it is open for anyone to post on it. What you mean is that you resent my posts! So be it.

Yes I did read all your comments (if you mean I missed your solution to the situation); my concerns are with what I have addressed. So saying that 'therapy helps...' is daft!??? Therapies have cured people but I see there is no talking to you since you are not rational.

You had a point i.e. that some therapies may operate with vested interests to keep the client returning...but then you got carried away and threw the baby out with the bath water - BIG time!

I think I can safely say that therapists here would be offended by negatively appraising their professions...does that make me a warrior? Ha!

I have not 'jumped in' - implying I am intruding. I would be 'meddling' if it were a private conversation. Since it is NOT a private conversation, I find your perception distorted and revealing. Ray Of Light started this thread and it is open for anyone to post on it. What you mean is that you resent my posts! So be it.

Yes I did read all your comments (if you mean I missed your solution to the situation); my concerns are with what I have addressed. So saying that 'therapy helps...' is daft!??? Therapies have cured people but I see there is no talking to you since you are not rational.

You had a point i.e. that some therapies may operate with vested interests to keep the client returning...but then you got carried away and threw the baby out with the bath water - BIG time!

Post away Amy! There is nothing to resent in your posts.

I have rocked the boat....your replies are quite revealing. You trying to assert that therapies help....is daft, as I have not denied that they help in short term. The trouble starts when someone like the op has been under therapy and more and more fresh diagnosis keep cropping up. People seeking help get more messed up than be helped by therapy.
You are banging on about what you want to. Please carry on! But you have missed on the essence of what I say. I don't suspect you ever will latch on, as it was addressed to her, and she clearly has a movement within her, with what I said. But you are too wrapped up to notice how it may help her.
Which is what the whole idea of a forum like this is.

It was a response to her directly....she has not got much problem with what I say but all your emotionally charged replies....defense, offense and rest of projections....what can be said?

Very good about presuming on behalf of all the rest of them. A real talent!
Believe me, people can speak if they wish to, just as you have. You are kidding yourself, that they are quiet because it is irrational what I say.
Now your problem seems to be...I got carried away and threw the baby with the bath water....there is no end to how far you can take it.
So good luck!

Post away Amy! There is nothing to resent in your posts.

I have rocked the boat....your replies are quite revealing. You trying to assert that therapies help....is daft, as I have not denied that they help in short term. The trouble starts when someone like the op has been under therapy and more and more fresh diagnosis keep cropping up. People seeking help get more messed up than be helped by therapy.
You are banging on about what you want to. Please carry on! But you have missed on the essence of what I say. I don't suspect you ever will latch on, as it was addressed to her, and she clearly has a movement within her, with what I said. But you are too wrapped up to notice how it may help her.
Which is what the whole idea of a forum like that.

It was a response to her directly....she has not got much problem with what I say but all your emotionally charged replies....defense, offense and rest of projections....what can be said?

Very good about presuming on behalf of all the rest of them. A real talent!
Believe me, people can speak if they wish to, just as you have. You are kidding yourself, that they are quiet because it is irrational what I say.
Now your problem seems to be...I got carried away and threw the baby with the bath water....there is no end to how far you can take it.
So good luck!

I see... I did miss that you say therapy can help in the short term. So apologies for that and it does make what you say a tad less extreme/dismissive.

Incidentally it was yourself that used the word 'daft' when I suggested that therapies help....

You say that 'fresh diagnosis keep cropping up' but Ray of Light has not mentioned that her physical symptoms are new. The implication is that they are the counterpart to the anger which she has now cured herself of. So are you just addressing professional therapists; i.e. presumably you do not feel that treating self with a therapy will lead to another diagnosis etc? Of course the problem with self treatment is that it relies on accurately applying the right therapy (i.e. making the right choice of therapy to begin with) and this took Ray of Light some considerable time.

Also, I made no presumption on behalf of other therapists...if you read my words correctly it starts with "I think..." i.e. just a thought.

I think it is laughable that you accuse me of having emotionally charged replies....whereas yourself....!? The emotional intensity of them made me almost pull back from the laptop! I suggest you read the tone of your posts and see if you can honestly say they come across as unemotional! Wow!

Delete - repeat post

Hi there! Just catching up.... as a moderator... as a therapist... and as someone who also knows how words can be misinterpreted or understood in different ways by different people.

I know jnani's posts can sometimes seem conflicting and controversial, but I also know that Amy's posts can also come across like that (as can any of us, myself included), yet HP is a place where we can generally agree to disagree, and understand that people do have different opinions, or that we can read things differently than they were intended (of course we won't tolerate directly offensive/abusive remarks). The good thing about having been a moderator on this community for so long (10 years at least, I've lost track!) is that I've seen people come and go, and I've come across all sorts of personalities, and with that you come to know the people who are passionate about their field of knowledge, and those who are willing to discuss things, as opposed to those who just want to cause conflict. I know that neither of you two want to cause conflict, and are willing to discuss, so there certainly won't be any "banning" (at least not at this stage hehe!)

So, perhaps let's just step back from the two way accusations of "you said this, and I said that" and get the focus back on Ray of Lights original discussion.

Now, Ray asked about jnani's quote, and depending on how you read what jnani has said you can take it as a valid argument or an invalid one. I've read it several times and I can see different things each time.
On the positive side, I see Ruby (I'll stop referring to you as jnani cos it's just harder to type :D) as saying that when we have an issue of some sort, it is transient, and by seeking healing we at least recognise that the issue exists rather than supress it, so that is the first part to healing ourselves. We can then, unfortunately go to a therapist (or even friend) who can take that individual issue and help us deal with it right there and then, job done, issue sorted... or, the therapist can start to take us down a route of what the issue is/was connected to e.g. what happened in the past, etc. and start to treat things that were no longer an issue in the present moment, but are being brought to the fore to be dealt with. This can, in theory, lead to more treatment being needed than just dealing with the issue that was presented. That's not to say all therapists would do this, or that those that do it, are doing it on purpose or for any particular reason such as greed etc. but it's recognised that it does happen. In that sense... yes, therapy can bugger you up (doesn't always, but it can)

When Ruby says "Know that ther is nothing to fix and if there is no bugger can do it for you", sure we could take this as offensive towards therapists... but it's not really, not how I read it. It says, that when you recognise your issue is transient, and that it is up to you be the key to letting it go, then a therapist or whoever, can only guide you to the point of sorting yourself out, they can't do it for you. So, that's not to say there is no use for a therapist, but that the therapist only guides us to be healed by recognising what the issue is in ourselves, they can't take the issue away directly.

Hence, just as we do with EFT, we can guide a person to the root cause of the issue, tap on it with the client, and deal with it there and then, but it is the client who has to have accepted that they want to be free of it, and they are treating themselves... the therapist is just the guide to help them focus on that one issue (if they're a good therapist). Something like Freeway-CER which is another form of tapping technique, doesn't even seek out the root cause, it just focuses on the way the person has/exhibits their issue in the present moment, and following treatment the root causes (if sought) no longer appear to be an issue either... as if it has propagated back to them. That is what can make Freeway sometimes work more swiftly on issues than EFT - though they are both effective techniques.

The other concern, as Ray highlights, is when we seek out multiple different therapies to try and resolve an issue, we end up with multiple versions of what the cause may be (opinions of therapists) and multiple techniques to try and resolve it. Some of those techniques, and the information we get from each, can conflict and we end up believing some techniques don't work, some cause us to be worse or some may help a little etc.

So, as suggested, Ray, if you have found EFT to be beneficial for the issue you wanted to deal with, great, that's that issue sorted, and you know EFT can work. If you have another specific issue, deal with that one issue in isolation before focusing on other issues. When do you stop... that's up to you, but avoid becoming someone who spends all day tapping on various things, and only half dealing with them (as I've seen some people do). If a specific issue isn't 100% gone, focus on that issue alone, whether it's with EFT, or with Mindfullness (being in the present moment etc.) or whatever suits you. In the sense that Ruby was alluding to, we can simply let things go, though it does take some dedication to keep letting things go, and eventually they will lose their power.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Good appraisal Giles. Yes we both got heated. I did apologise (on one point) where I had misunderstood her. I feel humility is important for those that are spiritualised. I did feel under attack merely for posting on a thread and hence needed to defend myself. Very odd! o_O

Re. Ray Of Light's OP, she is wondering whether to just accept the physical symptoms of the trauma that she has dealt with emotionally. The way I see it, this is not a new situation (i.e. continuing to sort out new issues) but part of the original condition. It is hard to know how to address this though in the absence of not knowing what this physical condition is, i.e. how pervading it is or, perhaps isn't. I would not live with any such condition if it could be treated....that seems unnecessary and negative.

Hi there! Just catching up.... as a moderator... as a therapist... and as someone who also knows how words can be misinterpreted or understood in different ways by different people.

I know jnani's posts can sometimes seem conflicting and controversial, but I also know that Amy's posts can also come across like that (as can any of us, myself included), yet HP is a place where we can generally agree to disagree, and understand that people do have different opinions, or that we can read things differently than they were intended (of course we won't tolerate directly offensive/abusive remarks). The good thing about having been a moderator on this community for so long (10 years at least, I've lost track!) is that I've seen people come and go, and I've come across all sorts of personalities, and with that you come to know the people who are passionate about their field of knowledge, and those who are willing to discuss things, as opposed to those who just want to cause conflict. I know that neither of you two want to cause conflict, and are willing to discuss, so there certainly won't be any "banning" (at least not at this stage hehe!)

So, perhaps let's just step back from the two way accusations of "you said this, and I said that" and get the focus back on Ray of Lights original discussion.

Now, Ray asked about jnani's quote, and depending on how you read what jnani has said you can take it as a valid argument or an invalid one. I've read it several times and I can see different things each time.
On the positive side, I see Ruby (I'll stop referring to you as jnani cos it's just harder to type :D) as saying that when we have an issue of some sort, it is transient, and by seeking healing we at least recognise that the issue exists rather than supress it, so that is the first part to healing ourselves. We can then, unfortunately go to a therapist (or even friend) who can take that individual issue and help us deal with it right there and then, job done, issue sorted... or, the therapist can start to take us down a route of what the issue is/was connected to e.g. what happened in the past, etc. and start to treat things that were no longer an issue in the present moment, but are being brought to the fore to be dealt with. This can, in theory, lead to more treatment being needed than just dealing with the issue that was presented. That's not to say all therapists would do this, or that those that do it, are doing it on purpose or for any particular reason such as greed etc. but it's recognised that it does happen. In that sense... yes, therapy can bugger you up (doesn't always, but it can)

When Ruby says "Know that ther is nothing to fix and if there is no bugger can do it for you", sure we could take this as offensive towards therapists... but it's not really, not how I read it. It says, that when you recognise your issue is transient, and that it is up to you be the key to letting it go, then a therapist or whoever, can only guide you to the point of sorting yourself out, they can't do it for you. So, that's not to say there is no use for a therapist, but that the therapist only guides us to be healed by recognising what the issue is in ourselves, they can't take the issue away directly.

Hence, just as we do with EFT, we can guide a person to the root cause of the issue, tap on it with the client, and deal with it there and then, but it is the client who has to have accepted that they want to be free of it, and they are treating themselves... the therapist is just the guide to help them focus on that one issue (if they're a good therapist). Something like Freeway-CER which is another form of tapping technique, doesn't even seek out the root cause, it just focuses on the way the person has/exhibits their issue in the present moment, and following treatment the root causes (if sought) no longer appear to be an issue either... as if it has propagated back to them. That is what can make Freeway sometimes work more swiftly on issues than EFT - though they are both effective techniques.

The other concern, as Ray highlights, is when we seek out multiple different therapies to try and resolve an issue, we end up with multiple versions of what the cause may be (opinions of therapists) and multiple techniques to try and resolve it. Some of those techniques, and the information we get from each, can conflict and we end up believing some techniques don't work, some cause us to be worse or some may help a little etc.

So, as suggested, Ray, if you have found EFT to be beneficial for the issue you wanted to deal with, great, that's that issue sorted, and you know EFT can work. If you have another specific issue, deal with that one issue in isolation before focusing on other issues. When do you stop... that's up to you, but avoid becoming someone who spends all day tapping on various things, and only half dealing with them (as I've seen some people do). If a specific issue isn't 100% gone, focus on that issue alone, whether it's with EFT, or with Mindfullness (being in the present moment etc.) or whatever suits you. In the sense that Ruby was alluding to, we can simply let things go, though it does take some dedication to keep letting things go, and eventually they will lose their power.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Praise the lord for Giles!

How I see it regarding healing / self healing is that the buck stops with self.

The thing is for a lot of people it takes others, be it therapists or general guidance from parents, friends or whomever to help one realise this aspect.

Not all therapists are good at what they do same goes for plumbers lol, but when individuals are not at this present time equipped enough to see the reasons for their own demise then one can look elsewhere.

Sometimes it takes a naff doctor / therapist for one to take the reins and sort themselves out.

Who know who best?

x daz x

The main reason I joined this forum was to eventually post about my experience and gain some support or ideas – but frankly I haven’t had the courage. But the words on your post have had such a profound impact.

When you said .... “ that you are broken, not normal, need mending and fixing. And until that happens, you can't live normally.” This is how I’ve been existing for the past ten years, trying to heal from a major life changing trauma which has resulted in two physical symptoms. Although one of the symptoms started several months afterwards and one a few years after, I’ve only just come to know for sure the link between the trauma and the symptoms (via several sessions with different mediums). I have spent hundreds of hours on the net searching for cures from supplements, herbal remedies, mind techniques etc. I’ve had acupuncture, homeopathy, cranio sacral therapy, vibrational remedies (a whole year of), reiki, changes in food, mindfulness, EFT, Tapas Acupressure Technique and so on. Up until a few months ago, nothing has made the slightest difference – except making me probably a few thousand pounds worse off. On a four separate occasions, via “therapy” it made me worse and those changes for the worse have stayed with me.

The last session I had with a medium, he told me I had to use my mind to overcome the trauma. But no advice on how exactly – if it was just a matter of having a strict word with myself I would have done that 10 years ago. However, I did EFT a few months ago for the overwhelming anger I have from the experience, and I have to say that has worked, the anger isn’t there anymore. Also, just recently, I have tried Australian Bush Flower Essences; the first couple I’ve taken really seemed to help. So I tried Fringed Violet which is for healing trauma from long ago including healing the aura (which I understood from the medium to be in need of repair). I took it for the recommended two weeks but was glad to stop as towards the end it made me sluggish and dopey. But even now, two weeks on from stopping, I don’t feel my usual self, I’ve got no enthusiasm, no drive for anything. So once again, I’m thinking maybe I shouldn’t have done that!

So my next plan is to do more EFT. But like you said, at what point do you call it a day? Maybe I just simply accept this has happened and just live with the physical symptoms.

Hi Ray of Light I have been off line for a few days so not able to respond before now. Jnani has already said acceptance is the key or rather self acceptance is the key, it always was and always will be the key to self mastery.

Now there is a reality of 'what is' and there is a personal perception of what 'has been', I say 'has been' because a perception is always applied after something has happened, the two are seldom the same thing. If we put 100 people through the same experience, then we will end up with 100 different accounts of the same event, each of those 100 perceptions have the potential to create something different within each individual.

The reason for this is simply because our underlying thought patterns and beliefs are the driving force of our life experience and our general state of health and wellbeing is a direct reflection of our general state of consciousness (our consciousness encompasses the thoughts that arise in our various aspects of consciousness).

Anyway let us get back to self acceptance, our thoughts are the driving force of our life experience, so we are in the driving seat with a thirst to experience, now as long as we are open to accept our self within our life experience then things happen and we accept the experience and move on and a new experience unfolds; but if we choose to replace self acceptance surrounding our life experience with self judgement, then rather than being free to accept and move forward within our life experience, we create division within self through self rejection which creates pain and suffering within our life experience. Pain and suffering is something we choose to experience the same as anything else, when we understand that everything begins and ends with a thought, then we understand that we always have a choice.

So let us wrap it all up, we only have two ways of being, we can choose to experience wholeness through self acceptance or we can experience division and conflict through choosing self rejection. We are our life experience, it is not separate from us, it is our whole life existence. If we choose to reject a part of our life experience, then we are choosing to reject self; to change division and conflict into wholeness requires self acceptance, to attain that we need to fully embrace and accept whatever we are or have experienced in an open and non-judgemental way. We also need to embrace personal responsibility for our underlying thought patterns and beliefs as well as the choices that arise from them; whatever our choices create or have already created is irrelevant to the reality that they are still our choices and we need to own them.

Hope that makes sense and helps.

Giles, thank you for your calming influence.

Nice 1 "Sometimes it takes a naff doctor / therapist for one to take the reins and sort themselves out." Absolutely, and I've seen quite a few. Taking the reins and sorting myself out is where I am now.

Hello Paul,

Thank you for your detailed reply and I get what you're saying. I particularly liked the part of 100 different people having 100 different accounts of the same experience. I'd just thought that fairly recently when I considered that someone else could have walked away from my trauma and carried on with life, so it's my emotional reaction to it that is the key to changing things. And that's where acceptance comes in. I guess for the past ten years I've been trying to reject the trauma and reject the physical problems it's caused. I've only recently, with the help of a medium, realised that only I am going to change things. For the moment, EFT definitely seems to be the way forward having found a significant change by tapping on the anger. I know this has worked for sure, as there have been so many minor irritations where I just know I would have lashed out - and I haven't. The anger isn't there anymore.

Also, of great help were Ruby's words because it made me realise that I can still be me, in the world, living my life, with these couple of physical symptoms which I could just accept as being part of me. I've driven so relentlessly over the last ten years to become healed, that the thought of stopping and just accepting me as I am now, had never occurred to me. And those thoughts have generated a new energy in me, it's like I've accepted that the trauma happened but I can still be me. And really since, I've felt so much happier over the last few days.

Thank you.

I guess for the past ten years I've been trying to reject the trauma and reject the physical problems it's caused. I've only recently, with the help of a medium, realised that only I am going to change things.

Reading your first post:

Although one of the symptoms started several months afterwards and one a few years after, I’ve only just come to know for sure the link between the trauma and the symptoms (via several sessions with different mediums).

Please consider that if these symptoms where directly caused by the experience, then they would have manifest within a day or two, not months or years later, this why I am saying that self acceptance is the key, when we choose to reject self through rejecting our life experience, we create division and conflict within self, if you resolve the division and conflict which creates ongoing pain and suffering, then the pain and suffering no longer has anything to drive it into existence.

A healing change only occurs when we set up the right environment for change to manifest, so the reality is that you need to create a new focus upon what you want, which is not what you have now, it is OK to accept where you are right now, but the main focus needs to be on wholeness which creates an environment of inner peace and harmony for your general state of health and well-being to emulate.

Hello Paul

I appreciate that you won't know the full details. The trauma wasn't something that happened during a day, it came out of the blue and built over a few months, culminating in four days of total fear and panic beyond anything I've ever experienced where I was barely able to function. Between physical symptom number 2 is a middle layer; a situation which was created in my body by the trauma which I was unaware of for a few years until it triggered physical symptom 2. The symptom was so un-obvious as a direct result of the trauma, seemingly un-connected, which is why it has mystified me and various practitioners for so long. One homeopath 'hinted' at the issue but it was lost amongst all the other things I was told. A medium also hinted at the fact, using different words but it was given to me in a way that made no sense but I logged it at the back of my mind, It was the second medium who said it so clearly and so loudly to me and so instantly, that that was the final piece of the jigsaw and it all made sense. It's really since I've had that information that things have gradually began to shift. So now I move to EFT.

Most people ignore this because they don't know anything about it - feel free to do the same - but, if you want something other than / as well as EFT, consider shamanism.

Hello Paul

I appreciate that you won't know the full details. The trauma wasn't something that happened during a day, it came out of the blue and built over a few months, culminating in four days of total fear and panic beyond anything I've ever experienced where I was barely able to function. Between physical symptom number 2 is a middle layer; a situation which was created in my body by the trauma which I was unaware of for a few years until it triggered physical symptom 2. The symptom was so un-obvious as a direct result of the trauma, seemingly un-connected, which is why it has mystified me and various practitioners for so long. One homeopath 'hinted' at the issue but it was lost amongst all the other things I was told. A medium also hinted at the fact, using different words but it was given to me in a way that made no sense but I logged it at the back of my mind, It was the second medium who said it so clearly and so loudly to me and so instantly, that that was the final piece of the jigsaw and it all made sense. It's really since I've had that information that things have gradually began to shift. So now I move to EFT.

Yes this is your personal experience, what the experience was is irrelevant as far as healing is concerned as none of us can go back and change an experience once it has occurred, the reality is that we only have two choices available concerning something which has happened, we can choose to embrace and accept our life experience as it was or we can choose to judge and reject it.

If we choose to embrace and accept what has been, then it becomes like any other memory we have concerning what has been, it is simply a memory of what has been nothing more, the reality about what has been is that it no longer exists in real time outside of our thought patterns and beliefs.

if we choose to place judgements upon our experience and reject one or more aspects of it (I say 'it' because although it might appear through conflict to be several experiences, we only have one life experience), then we are choosing to create a revised memory based upon our judgemental perceptions, this is in direct conflict with the unbiased factual memory of what was which is held in a different aspect of our consciousness (hence the term inner divisional conflict, an inner divisional conflict has nothing to do with anyone else, it is something we create all by ourselves); this conflict within consciousness, robs us of our inner peace and harmony and sets up the environment within us which creates the many diverse mental, emotional and physical symptoms that we perceive as ongoing pain and suffering (if we try and change the symptoms without addressing the underlying cause, then we will just start going round in circles), the choice to be happy or not happy is always a personal one that only we can choose to make, it is always and has always been avaialbe to us, it is not dependant upon situations or other people, it is a personal choice.

I recognise some aspects of that in my own journey. About 20 years ago I was receiving a lot of spiritual healing and felt like I had been run over by a bus every time. And every time it was called a "healing crisis". I eventually realised that this was making me more and more dysfunctional and not helpful at all; and since then I've more or less been on a journey to understand what was going on there and help myself and also work out how I can help people in a similar situation.

I know there are lots of lenses you can look at this from - but the one I have ended up peering through is the trauma model - and basically our society (its atitudes, its instructions for using the senses and the mind, its way of problem solving everything) is very good at inducing trauma and not very good at mending it. Trauma comes in an infinite spectum from tiny, through to mindbogglingly extreme, and most people are not at the extreme end (though stats from psychologists working in the trauma field suggest that up to 1% of the adult population might be close to that extreme end - that's a lot of people - and about 10-15% of the general population in a peaceful western society are embodying a measurable amount of trauma that has not been processed).

The problem is not the event itself, but the loss of control and feeling of overwhelm. It is the return of these two feelings that cause the difficulties - including addictions, bipolar disorder, and a vast range of physical (somatised) symptoms because the body's adaptation results in major adjustments to the immune system and the autonomic nervous system. Most "trauma" is from pre-birth (and can even be memories or thoughts inherited form parents) or from the birth or first few months after, so there are mno memorable events and no storyline (because this was "pre-verbal"). There are so many combinations of the way this plays out - that past this general description there is no simple pattern. The main thing about treating this kind of trauma is that the normal reaction is to try to change it - but that is exactly the wrong reaction. Body responses to trauma involve some degree of change in the way your body is protected, and so "poking it" just stirs up those internal bodyguards. The first thing to do is to deliberately focus on what is healthy and what is safe, and make that a habitual frame of reference. That includes sensations in the body and emotuional states. If you feel a sensation or emotion that represents a resourced state - it feels "positive" and "alive", then be really curious about what you are feeling and where in your body it is and what brought it about. It's a good start.

Jnani – I hope you don’t mind me re-printing below some of what you said on another thread because it feels so significant for me (and I didn’t want to hijack another person’s thread).
[Edit by Energylz - Reference to previous thread:

Quote: “Heal your self is a very common idea in present times. When you seek healing, it is telling you consciously and subconsciously that you are broken, not normal, need mending and fixing. And until that happens, you can't live normally. That is the biggest damage therapy has done at large. It helps if sought specifically for one specific obstacle and then go on to live as best as you can. But the way the therapy works is, it keeps diagnosing so much wrong....that therapy, the expert, the help itself become the biggest hinderance to normal functionality. Therapy is unsettling. People can't see it because of desperation. It buggers people up.” Quote end.

The main reason I joined this forum was to eventually post about my experience and gain some support or ideas – but frankly I haven’t had the courage. But the words on your post have had such a profound impact.

When you said .... “ that you are broken, not normal, need mending and fixing. And until that happens, you can't live normally.” This is how I’ve been existing for the past ten years, trying to heal from a major life changing trauma which has resulted in two physical symptoms. Although one of the symptoms started several months afterwards and one a few years after, I’ve only just come to know for sure the link between the trauma and the symptoms (via several sessions with different mediums). I have spent hundreds of hours on the net searching for cures from supplements, herbal remedies, mind techniques etc. I’ve had acupuncture, homeopathy, cranio sacral therapy, vibrational remedies (a whole year of), reiki, changes in food, mindfulness, EFT, Tapas Acupressure Technique and so on. Up until a few months ago, nothing has made the slightest difference – except making me probably a few thousand pounds worse off. On a four separate occasions, via “therapy” it made me worse and those changes for the worse have stayed with me.

The last session I had with a medium, he told me I had to use my mind to overcome the trauma. But no advice on how exactly – if it was just a matter of having a strict word with myself I would have done that 10 years ago. However, I did EFT a few months ago for the overwhelming anger I have from the experience, and I have to say that has worked, the anger isn’t there anymore. Also, just recently, I have tried Australian Bush Flower Essences; the first couple I’ve taken really seemed to help. So I tried Fringed Violet which is for healing trauma from long ago including healing the aura (which I understood from the medium to be in need of repair). I took it for the recommended two weeks but was glad to stop as towards the end it made me sluggish and dopey. But even now, two weeks on from stopping, I don’t feel my usual self, I’ve got no enthusiasm, no drive for anything. So once again, I’m thinking maybe I shouldn’t have done that!

So my next plan is to do more EFT. But like you said, at what point do you call it a day? Maybe I just simply accept this has happened and just live with the physical symptoms.

I recognise some aspects of that in my own journey. About 20 years ago I was receiving a lot of spiritual healing and felt like I had been run over by a bus every time. And every time it was called a "healing crisis". I eventually realised that this was making me more and more dysfunctional and not helpful at all; and since then I've more or less been on a journey to understand what was going on there and help myself and also work out how I can help people in a similar situation.

Unfortunately when something is triggered during a healing session, it arises so that it can be revealed and healed, it needs addressing and sorting at that time so that it creates the healing change which is what healing is, if it is not healed then we end up with a fallout which is termed a 'healing crisis', the proper terminology IMO would be a healing conflict, unfortunately this is not something which is often understood or taught by healers

I know there are lots of lenses you can look at this from - but the one I have ended up peering through is the trauma model - and basically our society (its atitudes, its instructions for using the senses and the mind, its way of problem solving everything) is very good at inducing trauma and not very good at mending it. Trauma comes in an infinite spectum from tiny, through to mindbogglingly extreme, and most people are not at the extreme end (though stats from psychologists working in the trauma field suggest that up to 1% of the adult population might be close to that extreme end - that's a lot of people - and about 10-15% of the general population in a peaceful western society are embodying a measurable amount of trauma that has not been processed).

The problem is not the event itself, but the loss of control and feeling of overwhelm. It is the return of these two feelings that cause the difficulties - including addictions, bipolar disorder, and a vast range of physical (somatised) symptoms because the body's adaptation results in major adjustments to the immune system and the autonomic nervous system. Most "trauma" is from pre-birth (and can even be memories or thoughts inherited form parents) or from the birth or first few months after, so there are mno memorable events and no storyline (because this was "pre-verbal"). There are so many combinations of the way this plays out - that past this general description there is no simple pattern. The main thing about treating this kind of trauma is that the normal reaction is to try to change it - but that is exactly the wrong reaction. Body responses to trauma involve some degree of change in the way your body is protected, and so "poking it" just stirs up those internal bodyguards. The first thing to do is to deliberately focus on what is healthy and what is safe, and make that a habitual frame of reference. That includes sensations in the body and emotuional states. If you feel a sensation or emotion that represents a resourced state - it feels "positive" and "alive", then be really curious about what you are feeling and where in your body it is and what brought it about. It's a good start.

As you say an event is not the problem, which is the way I understand it, when healing we do not deal with the event as it no longer exists, what does exist is the person and their ongoing inner divisional conflicts.

We are taught lots of things as we grow up, but consciousness is not taught because it is not understood, I might be reading your post wrong, but I think that if you replaced the word 'trauma' with 'inner divisional conflict' (an inner divisional conflict arises when two or more conflicting thought patterns or beliefs arise within our aspects of consciousness at the same time) which creates our ongoing pain and suffering, then you will see that the trauma is actually a symptom of the inner divisional conflict, much the same as your healing crisis was actually a symptom of an inner divisional conflict that was not addressed and healed when you went for spiritual healing.

Hi Paul

I think we have slightly different jargon here and also different approaches due to the different modalities we use (and the patients that our job titles attract). I was taught in several different training courses that things come up to be dealt with, and I agree that's true in some cases; but in my experience there are quite a few caveats on that. I have found that - provided the person is sufficiently well resourced and they are able - with help - to remain sufficiently resourced, then yes - whatever arises is gruist for the mill. So that model works with an experienced and/or relatively untraumatised client. But that's not always the case, and in these circumstances there is either the bus effect or it's just rearranging furniture.

I fully agree that "trauma" is not a particularly useful word in most cases. With regard to the "Inner divisional conflict" - I recognise that, but would put a different spin on it. There is a fragmentation - inner parts that should be loosely coupled and in a heirarchical control structure have become more autonomous because the more conscious, cortical layers have been overwhelmed. The human body-mind is so complex that we are forced to use a fairly simplistic lens through which we observe and interpret. As a bodyworker, I tend to work with material that is pre-verbal (often from the first few months of infancy or even pre-birth), so the NLP models don't fit that very well - I had a lot of NLP before finding that verbal processing got in the way of what needed to happen. Pre-natal processes are slow, there are formative gestures that need to physically express. Some physical support may be required. I don't see it as a conflict, but rather an allocation of resources that is not oriented to NOW - but rather is at least partially oriented to a there-and-then.

It's about us being able to come home to ourselves. You describe the elephant's leg - I've got hold of the trunk.

I think we have slightly different jargon here and also different approaches due to the different modalities we use (and the patients that our job titles attract). I was taught in several different training courses that things come up to be dealt with, and I agree that's true in some cases; but in my experience there are quite a few caveats on that. I have found that - provided the person is sufficiently well resourced and they are able - with help - to remain sufficiently resourced, then yes - whatever arises is gruist for the mill. So that model works with an experienced and/or relatively untraumatised client. But that's not always the case, and in these circumstances there is either the bus effect or it's just rearranging furniture.

In my experience anyone who is open to embrace personal change is open to healing, I guess that is why healing is permission driven, it is pointless attempting to change someone's way of being if they do not want to change, any benefits will be short lived and not create the lasting healing change which is required to create wholeness.

I fully agree that "trauma" is not a particularly useful word in most cases. With regard to the "Inner divisional conflict" - I recognise that, but would put a different spin on it. There is a fragmentation - inner parts that should be loosely coupled and in a heirarchical control structure have become more autonomous because the more conscious, cortical layers have been overwhelmed. The human body-mind is so complex that we are forced to use a fairly simplistic lens through which we observe and interpret. As a bodyworker, I tend to work with material that is pre-verbal (often from the first few months of infancy or even pre-birth), so the NLP models don't fit that very well - I had a lot of NLP before finding that verbal processing got in the way of what needed to happen. Pre-natal processes are slow, there are formative gestures that need to physically express. Some physical support may be required. I don't see it as a conflict, but rather an allocation of resources that is not oriented to NOW - but rather is at least partially oriented to a there-and-then.

It's about us being able to come home to ourselves. You describe the elephant's leg - I've got hold of the trunk.

Fragmentation is exactly what inner divisional conflict is, without fragmentation there is no division and conflict and we experience wholeness and harmony, although I have studied quite a few modalities like NLP, hypnotherapy, EFT, freeway, meridian therapies and remedial massage therapy, non of them gave me my current understanding of how we function and how our physical life experience is a direct refection of our underlying state of consciousness, the symptoms that we are presented with for physical therapy often have an underlying inner divisional conflict within consciousness driving them into existence.

The main point about our consciousness is that everything which is being created within consciousness is being created right now, we might think of something that we got upset about many years ago, but any feelings that arise within our bodies concerning those current thoughts are being created right now as a direct physiological response to our chosen way of being, if we are still upset then obviously the fact that we are once more feeling upset over something which no longer exists, suggests that we have an unresolved inner divisional conflict surrounding a past event which requires healing in the now.

Can you go back in time and apply healing when the event happened? it is the same with all things we can go back and change something which has already occurred, we can only change the way we choose to perceive and internalise it right now.

Hi both

Ovahimba, I've been reading your insights with much interest and feel a little validated by your own experience, being similar to mine in terms of some therapies not helping and in some cases, making the situation worse.

Over the last few months, and particularly after doing much EFT on the anger I felt, there has definitely been a shift. I know this for sure because sometimes just the slightest irritation would cause me to fly off the handle, whereas now that anger is no longer there. I feel distant now from the original trauma, I have accepted it happened and mentally and emotionally feeling extremely ready to be moving on. The problem is, how do you tell that to the physical body that is still exhibiting physical symptoms?

Ray

Use EFT on the physical symptoms too.