Jnani – I hope you don’t mind me re-printing below some of what you said on another thread because it feels so significant for me (and I didn’t want to hijack another person’s thread).
[Edit by Energylz - Reference to previous thread: http://www.healthypages.com/community/threads/e-f-t-for-o-c-d.71244/#post-734841 ]
Heal your self is a very common idea in present times. When you seek healing, it is telling you consciously and subconsciously that you are broken, not normal, need mending and fixing. And until that happens, you can't live normally. That is the biggest damage therapy has done at large. It helps if sought specifically for one specific obstacle and then go on to live as best as you can. But the way the therapy works is, it keeps diagnosing so much wrong....that therapy, the expert, the help itself become the biggest hinderance to normal functionality. Therapy is unsettling. People can't see it because of desperation. It buggers people up.”
The main reason I joined this forum was to eventually post about my experience and gain some support or ideas – but frankly I haven’t had the courage. But the words on your post have had such a profound impact.
When you said .... “ that you are broken, not normal, need mending and fixing. And until that happens, you can't live normally.” This is how I’ve been existing for the past ten years, trying to heal from a major life changing trauma which has resulted in two physical symptoms. Although one of the symptoms started several months afterwards and one a few years after, I’ve only just come to know for sure the link between the trauma and the symptoms (via several sessions with different mediums). I have spent hundreds of hours on the net searching for cures from supplements, herbal remedies, mind techniques etc. I’ve had acupuncture, homeopathy, cranio sacral therapy, vibrational remedies (a whole year of), reiki, changes in food, mindfulness, EFT, Tapas Acupressure Technique and so on. Up until a few months ago, nothing has made the slightest difference – except making me probably a few thousand pounds worse off. On a four separate occasions, via “therapy” it made me worse and those changes for the worse have stayed with me.
The last session I had with a medium, he told me I had to use my mind to overcome the trauma. But no advice on how exactly – if it was just a matter of having a strict word with myself I would have done that 10 years ago. However, I did EFT a few months ago for the overwhelming anger I have from the experience, and I have to say that has worked, the anger isn’t there anymore. Also, just recently, I have tried Australian Bush Flower Essences; the first couple I’ve taken really seemed to help. So I tried Fringed Violet which is for healing trauma from long ago including healing the aura (which I understood from the medium to be in need of repair). I took it for the recommended two weeks but was glad to stop as towards the end it made me sluggish and dopey. But even now, two weeks on from stopping, I don’t feel my usual self, I’ve got no enthusiasm, no drive for anything. So once again, I’m thinking maybe I shouldn’t have done that!
So my next plan is to do more EFT. But like you said, at what point do you call it a day? Maybe I just simply accept this has happened and just live with the physical symptoms.
So you say you agree with Jnani in her (controversial) view of the notion that healing is detrimental to health (?), but then go on to have finally found a therapy that HAS worked for you, notably in releasing your anger. I am wondering what mind techniques you tried since it is obvious to me that a "major life changing trauma" is best dealt with that way, e.g. counselling which has not been mentioned.
Was it recently that you successfully used EFT in overcoming your anger? If so, then the physical symptoms you experience (which, presumably relate to the original condition/source of anger) may take a while to dissipate. Perhaps more information on this would be beneficial for feedback.
Incidentally I strongly disagree with Jnani with her dissing of healing. Whilst there is something to be said for not seeing self as broken, it is a question of degree..... For something to need to be healed does not entail disempowering self per se.... just that something needs attention, that's all.
It would help if Jnani could specify what therapies she has found to be a 'hinderance'. Clearly not all therapies can be dismissed in this fashion and I find it grossly irresponsible and a sweeping, inaccurate statement that she has said this. I question why she would want to be a member of a forum when she is so clearly against the nature of what it is about!!!
Wow! I was hoping for a gentler response than this, given that it’s taken quite a bit of courage to post this in the first place! I didn’t say I agreed with jnani’s post, I found it an interesting angle and one I think is a valid point and has given me something to think about, at what point do you call it a day?
Yes, EFT has helped with the anger – but it’s taken nigh on ten years and a lot of damage via other therapies to get here. I found a hindrance, and I’ll never do it again, is homeopathy and also shamanic healing. I tried this for several months, years apart and it had a distinctive negative effect on me, to add to the trauma, so I’ll never go near either again.
As I said, given that EFT has helped, I want to give that another go. I’ve recently purchased a book by Gary Craig so I’m aware of all the steps, advice, shortcuts etc. If that doesn’t work, that maybe I have to accept the fact that nothing will – and it’s that which I found potentially liberating in Jnani’s post – reaching that point. And yes, I am aware that the physical body takes longer to heal.
I am sorry if my post was a little too outspoken for you but, given the title of this thread on such a forum, you must have realised it is controversial!? To be fair, Jnani's attack on healing therapies was quite savage and overlooked any positives.
Of course finding the right therapy is key when it comes to healing. Whilst EFT was successful for you in overcoming your anger, now that you are addressing physical symptoms, i.e. not mind over matter, I am wondering whether it would be more beneficial to turn to a more suitable form of treatment. Without knowing what these symptoms are then feedback is unlikely to be accurate. Do you wish to disclose what these are so that others here may be able to offer you their ideas/thoughts?
Jnani – I hope you don’t mind me re-printing below some of what you said on another thread because it feels so significant for me (and I didn’t want to hijack another person’s thread).
Quote: “Heal your self is a very common idea in present times. When you seek healing, it is telling you consciously and subconsciously that you are broken, not normal, need mending and fixing. And until that happens, you can't live normally. That is the biggest damage therapy has done at large. It helps if sought specifically for one specific obstacle and then go on to live as best as you can. But the way the therapy works is, it keeps diagnosing so much wrong....that therapy, the expert, the help itself become the biggest hinderance to normal functionality. Therapy is unsettling. People can't see it because of desperation. It buggers people up.” Quote end.
The main reason I joined this forum was to eventually post about my experience and gain some support or ideas – but frankly I haven’t had the courage. But the words on your post have had such a profound impact.
When you said .... “ that you are broken, not normal, need mending and fixing. And until that happens, you can't live normally.” This is how I’ve been existing for the past ten years, trying to heal from a major life changing trauma which has resulted in two physical symptoms. Although one of the symptoms started several months afterwards and one a few years after, I’ve only just come to know for sure the link between the trauma and the symptoms (via several sessions with different mediums). I have spent hundreds of hours on the net searching for cures from supplements, herbal remedies, mind techniques etc. I’ve had acupuncture, homeopathy, cranio sacral therapy, vibrational remedies (a whole year of), reiki, changes in food, mindfulness, EFT, Tapas Acupressure Technique and so on. Up until a few months ago, nothing has made the slightest difference – except making me probably a few thousand pounds worse off. On a four separate occasions, via “therapy” it made me worse and those changes for the worse have stayed with me.
The last session I had with a medium, he told me I had to use my mind to overcome the trauma. But no advice on how exactly – if it was just a matter of having a strict word with myself I would have done that 10 years ago. However, I did EFT a few months ago for the overwhelming anger I have from the experience, and I have to say that has worked, the anger isn’t there anymore. Also, just recently, I have tried Australian Bush Flower Essences; the first couple I’ve taken really seemed to help. So I tried Fringed Violet which is for healing trauma from long ago including healing the aura (which I understood from the medium to be in need of repair). I took it for the recommended two weeks but was glad to stop as towards the end it made me sluggish and dopey. But even now, two weeks on from stopping, I don’t feel my usual self, I’ve got no enthusiasm, no drive for anything. So once again, I’m thinking maybe I shouldn’t have done that!
So my next plan is to do more EFT. But like you said, at what point do you call it a day? Maybe I just simply accept this has happened and just live with the physical symptoms.
The shift has taken place. It will continue to deepen. Stay accepting. Acceptance is seldom taught, because how can they teach whet they do 't have? A pauper sharing million dollars, never.
So most therapy is a hard processing of unwanted symptoms, situations, emotions....what good can it possibly do? In the long run it is more damaging than suffering itself. People get caught in this web. Don't know how to get out. In the same web, therapists are caught too. Trying to drum up business, get clients, get people to heal, find the issues....create issues, give their insight, give their treatment. Same dynamic. Healy and healers are playing the same game. Therapist desperate for clients.....how can they take you beyond desperation. The energy is stuck in want and also glory of their own expertise and what they know.
As I said, a small help in specific issue, that is how far therapy should be taken. Discard and come out of healings, therapy and self development, self growth mode as soon as that particular issue is dealt with.
Relax. I use 12 tissue remedies, mudras, just plain speaking to bring about shifts. Ordinary is extraordinary. We in India, never know of healing...and yet healing takes place, people speak, talk, normal chat nothing metaphysical, no special intention other than to connect with tge next person. Wisdom flows that heals. I heard of reiki only in the UK. Yet I was always helping and being helped by family, friends, acquaintances, even maids, servants...everyone had the same share of the process.
I remember my dad died and months later, heavy sorrow hung over me. this maid held my hand and said nothing....her touch was so present and full that I felt instantly light. Unpretentious is the way of life. I still remember her holding my hand. She took away intense pain even if the grieving carried on for lot longer
You ask, What do you do with physical symptoms?
Decide specifically, what you want healed and then work very precisely, allow the pain with your breath and let it move.EFT may well work but again it is endless. I had to drop everything in the end, throwing baby with the bath water...we all have to do that in the end.
Breathe nicely. Breathe, just breathe easy. Remember to breathe. Your physical symptoms will alleviate. Relax.
Stop chasing well being like a headless chicken, breathe. Breathe with your daughter, she will enjoy just sitting and not doing anything else other than breathing nicely. Forget about what you are meant to be fixing...stay oblivious. Start living, you are as good as the person who is trying to fix you, promise
Know that ther is nothing to fix and if there is no bugger can do it for you.
Liberation!
Interesting that jnani ends her post with "there is nothing to fix" having outlined what you could do! Hmmm
"No bugger can do it for you" is insulting and inaccurate. The 'bugger' can help lead the way i.e. some people need guidance and the help of a professional - not that they do all the work, since compliance paves the way too.
I do concede that jnani has a point about some therapies having a vested interest in keeping you coming back. However, whether this is true of the majority of practises would be questionable....I doubt that she has done a survey and is just voicing off having found it to be true of some therapies. Hence sweeping statements can be seen for what they are, i.e. wide off the mark!
Incidentally I strongly disagree with Jnani with her dissing of healing. Whilst there is something to be said for not seeing self as broken, it is a question of degree..... For something to need to be healed does not entail disempowering self per se.... just that something needs attention, that's all.It would help if Jnani could specify what therapies she has found to be a 'hinderance'. Clearly not all therapies can be dismissed in this fashion and I find it grossly irresponsible and a sweeping, inaccurate statement that she has said this. I question why she would want to be a member of a forum when she is so clearly against the nature of what it is about!!!
I was mystified for along time, how some members get banned....thank you I know exactly how, it's people like you getting offended and insulted. It is easy done, given that so Taking it personally and seriously. Very open minded and open hearted of you.
If I am banned, goodbye people, had a great ride!
I was mystified for along time, how some members get banned....thank you I know exactly how, it's people like you getting offended and insulted. It is easy done, given that so Taking it personally and seriously. Very open minded and open hearted of you.
If I am banned, goodbye people, had a great ride!
Wow...twisted thinking, much!? Huh? 
I dare say that MANY here will be offended by your strong dissing of therapies here! Whether or not they will have the guts to speak out - like I have - remains to be seen. When you diss something, how is it not offensive????? Luckily I am not a therapist, so I did not take it personally i.e. was not insulted. I wonder if you can see any good/positives from therapies (since you seem to imply that you are open minded and open hearted whereas I am not, apparently)? Countless numbers of clients are successfully treated and walk away cured. I AM open minded which is how I recognise that your juggernaut negative view is VERY far from it!!!
"Taking it personally and seriously"....what can be made of that remark? That you were joking? If so, I missed the punchline.
Wow...twisted thinking, much!? Huh?
I dare say that MANY here will be offended by your strong dissing of therapies here! Whether or not they will have the guts to speak out - like I have - remains to be seen. When you diss something, how is it not offensive????? Luckily I am not a therapist, so I did not take it personally i.e. was not insulted. I wonder if you can see any good/positives from therapies (since you seem to imply that you are open minded and open hearted whereas I am not, apparently)? Countless numbers of clients are successfully treated and walk away cured.
"Taking it personally and seriously"....what can be made of that remark? That you were joking? If so, I missed the punchline.
Now you are fighting battles on everyone's behalf. A warrior!
If you notice, you have jumped in a dialogue which really didn't include you. You are not a therapist, guess you would be harsher if you were one?! But hey it's a forum so you have license to meddle in when two are speaking even when it Is quite clear it is addressed to each other via quotes. And you that on fairly regular basis....because it is a forum....
One thing is clear from your reply, you have not bothered to read the entire post, picked up bits, reacted, took offense or whatever else. I still don't expect you to read what I said and try to understand it. Or you would not be saying daft things like therapy helps etc....your reply is your inner response. Each to their own
You are free to react the way you want. I am quite happy for you to presume that all others are about to be offended too and have as much of it as you like.
I said something that does not sit well with you. I am ok with that.
Now you are fighting battles on everyone's behalf. A warrior!
If you notice, you have jumped in a dialogue which really didn't include you. You are not a therapist, guess you would be harsher if you were one?! But hey it's a forum so you have license to meddle in when two are speaking even when it Is quite clear it is addressed to each other via quotes. And you that on fairly regular basis....because it is a forum....
One thing is clear from your reply, you have not bothered to read the entire post, picked up bits, reacted, took offense or whatever else. I still don't expect you to read what I said and try to understand it. Or you would not be saying daft things like therapy helps etc....your reply is your inner response. Each to their own
You are free to react the way you want. I am quite happy for you to presume that all others are about to be offended too and have as much of it as you like.
I said something that does not sit well with you. I am ok with that.
I think I can safely say that therapists here would be offended by negatively appraising their professions...does that make me a warrior? Ha!
I have not 'jumped in' - implying I am intruding. I would be 'meddling' if it were a private conversation. Since it is NOT a private conversation, I find your perception distorted and revealing. Ray Of Light started this thread and it is open for anyone to post on it. What you mean is that you resent my posts! So be it.
Yes I did read all your comments (if you mean I missed your solution to the situation); my concerns are with what I have addressed. So saying that 'therapy helps...' is daft!??? Therapies have cured people but I see there is no talking to you since you are not rational.
You had a point i.e. that some therapies may operate with vested interests to keep the client returning...but then you got carried away and threw the baby out with the bath water - BIG time!
I think I can safely say that therapists here would be offended by negatively appraising their professions...does that make me a warrior? Ha!
I have not 'jumped in' - implying I am intruding. I would be 'meddling' if it were a private conversation. Since it is NOT a private conversation, I find your perception distorted and revealing. Ray Of Light started this thread and it is open for anyone to post on it. What you mean is that you resent my posts! So be it.
Yes I did read all your comments (if you mean I missed your solution to the situation); my concerns are with what I have addressed. So saying that 'therapy helps...' is daft!??? Therapies have cured people but I see there is no talking to you since you are not rational.
You had a point i.e. that some therapies may operate with vested interests to keep the client returning...but then you got carried away and threw the baby out with the bath water - BIG time!
Post away Amy! There is nothing to resent in your posts.
I have rocked the boat....your replies are quite revealing. You trying to assert that therapies help....is daft, as I have not denied that they help in short term. The trouble starts when someone like the op has been under therapy and more and more fresh diagnosis keep cropping up. People seeking help get more messed up than be helped by therapy.
You are banging on about what you want to. Please carry on! But you have missed on the essence of what I say. I don't suspect you ever will latch on, as it was addressed to her, and she clearly has a movement within her, with what I said. But you are too wrapped up to notice how it may help her.
Which is what the whole idea of a forum like this is.
It was a response to her directly....she has not got much problem with what I say but all your emotionally charged replies....defense, offense and rest of projections....what can be said?
Very good about presuming on behalf of all the rest of them. A real talent!
Believe me, people can speak if they wish to, just as you have. You are kidding yourself, that they are quiet because it is irrational what I say.
Now your problem seems to be...I got carried away and threw the baby with the bath water....there is no end to how far you can take it.
So good luck!
Post away Amy! There is nothing to resent in your posts.
I have rocked the boat....your replies are quite revealing. You trying to assert that therapies help....is daft, as I have not denied that they help in short term. The trouble starts when someone like the op has been under therapy and more and more fresh diagnosis keep cropping up. People seeking help get more messed up than be helped by therapy.
You are banging on about what you want to. Please carry on! But you have missed on the essence of what I say. I don't suspect you ever will latch on, as it was addressed to her, and she clearly has a movement within her, with what I said. But you are too wrapped up to notice how it may help her.
Which is what the whole idea of a forum like that.It was a response to her directly....she has not got much problem with what I say but all your emotionally charged replies....defense, offense and rest of projections....what can be said?
Very good about presuming on behalf of all the rest of them. A real talent!
Believe me, people can speak if they wish to, just as you have. You are kidding yourself, that they are quiet because it is irrational what I say.
Now your problem seems to be...I got carried away and threw the baby with the bath water....there is no end to how far you can take it.
So good luck!
I see... I did miss that you say therapy can help in the short term. So apologies for that and it does make what you say a tad less extreme/dismissive.
Incidentally it was yourself that used the word 'daft' when I suggested that therapies help....
You say that 'fresh diagnosis keep cropping up' but Ray of Light has not mentioned that her physical symptoms are new. The implication is that they are the counterpart to the anger which she has now cured herself of. So are you just addressing professional therapists; i.e. presumably you do not feel that treating self with a therapy will lead to another diagnosis etc? Of course the problem with self treatment is that it relies on accurately applying the right therapy (i.e. making the right choice of therapy to begin with) and this took Ray of Light some considerable time.
Also, I made no presumption on behalf of other therapists...if you read my words correctly it starts with "I think..." i.e. just a thought.
I think it is laughable that you accuse me of having emotionally charged replies....whereas yourself....!? The emotional intensity of them made me almost pull back from the laptop! I suggest you read the tone of your posts and see if you can honestly say they come across as unemotional! Wow! 
Delete - repeat post
Hi there! Just catching up.... as a moderator... as a therapist... and as someone who also knows how words can be misinterpreted or understood in different ways by different people.
I know jnani's posts can sometimes seem conflicting and controversial, but I also know that Amy's posts can also come across like that (as can any of us, myself included), yet HP is a place where we can generally agree to disagree, and understand that people do have different opinions, or that we can read things differently than they were intended (of course we won't tolerate directly offensive/abusive remarks). The good thing about having been a moderator on this community for so long (10 years at least, I've lost track!) is that I've seen people come and go, and I've come across all sorts of personalities, and with that you come to know the people who are passionate about their field of knowledge, and those who are willing to discuss things, as opposed to those who just want to cause conflict. I know that neither of you two want to cause conflict, and are willing to discuss, so there certainly won't be any "banning" (at least not at this stage hehe!)
So, perhaps let's just step back from the two way accusations of "you said this, and I said that" and get the focus back on Ray of Lights original discussion.
Now, Ray asked about jnani's quote, and depending on how you read what jnani has said you can take it as a valid argument or an invalid one. I've read it several times and I can see different things each time.
On the positive side, I see Ruby (I'll stop referring to you as jnani cos it's just harder to type :D) as saying that when we have an issue of some sort, it is transient, and by seeking healing we at least recognise that the issue exists rather than supress it, so that is the first part to healing ourselves. We can then, unfortunately go to a therapist (or even friend) who can take that individual issue and help us deal with it right there and then, job done, issue sorted... or, the therapist can start to take us down a route of what the issue is/was connected to e.g. what happened in the past, etc. and start to treat things that were no longer an issue in the present moment, but are being brought to the fore to be dealt with. This can, in theory, lead to more treatment being needed than just dealing with the issue that was presented. That's not to say all therapists would do this, or that those that do it, are doing it on purpose or for any particular reason such as greed etc. but it's recognised that it does happen. In that sense... yes, therapy can bugger you up (doesn't always, but it can)
When Ruby says "Know that ther is nothing to fix and if there is no bugger can do it for you", sure we could take this as offensive towards therapists... but it's not really, not how I read it. It says, that when you recognise your issue is transient, and that it is up to you be the key to letting it go, then a therapist or whoever, can only guide you to the point of sorting yourself out, they can't do it for you. So, that's not to say there is no use for a therapist, but that the therapist only guides us to be healed by recognising what the issue is in ourselves, they can't take the issue away directly.
Hence, just as we do with EFT, we can guide a person to the root cause of the issue, tap on it with the client, and deal with it there and then, but it is the client who has to have accepted that they want to be free of it, and they are treating themselves... the therapist is just the guide to help them focus on that one issue (if they're a good therapist). Something like Freeway-CER which is another form of tapping technique, doesn't even seek out the root cause, it just focuses on the way the person has/exhibits their issue in the present moment, and following treatment the root causes (if sought) no longer appear to be an issue either... as if it has propagated back to them. That is what can make Freeway sometimes work more swiftly on issues than EFT - though they are both effective techniques.
The other concern, as Ray highlights, is when we seek out multiple different therapies to try and resolve an issue, we end up with multiple versions of what the cause may be (opinions of therapists) and multiple techniques to try and resolve it. Some of those techniques, and the information we get from each, can conflict and we end up believing some techniques don't work, some cause us to be worse or some may help a little etc.
So, as suggested, Ray, if you have found EFT to be beneficial for the issue you wanted to deal with, great, that's that issue sorted, and you know EFT can work. If you have another specific issue, deal with that one issue in isolation before focusing on other issues. When do you stop... that's up to you, but avoid becoming someone who spends all day tapping on various things, and only half dealing with them (as I've seen some people do). If a specific issue isn't 100% gone, focus on that issue alone, whether it's with EFT, or with Mindfullness (being in the present moment etc.) or whatever suits you. In the sense that Ruby was alluding to, we can simply let things go, though it does take some dedication to keep letting things go, and eventually they will lose their power.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Good appraisal Giles. Yes we both got heated. I did apologise (on one point) where I had misunderstood her. I feel humility is important for those that are spiritualised. I did feel under attack merely for posting on a thread and hence needed to defend myself. Very odd! o_O
Re. Ray Of Light's OP, she is wondering whether to just accept the physical symptoms of the trauma that she has dealt with emotionally. The way I see it, this is not a new situation (i.e. continuing to sort out new issues) but part of the original condition. It is hard to know how to address this though in the absence of not knowing what this physical condition is, i.e. how pervading it is or, perhaps isn't. I would not live with any such condition if it could be treated....that seems unnecessary and negative.