We can say “NO” to ...
 
Notifications
Clear all

We can say “NO” to swine flu – any flu

Page 1 / 3

Principled
Posts: 3674
Topic starter
(@principled_1611052765)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago

Hi everyone,

Did you know that influenza is Italian for “influence” ? Are we going to let ourselves be influenced through fear into sickness?

First of all, a couple of medical-related stories that are worth reading:

[url]What’s Making Us Sick Is an Epidemic of Diagnoses[/url]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]
For most Americans, the biggest health threat is not avian flu, West Nile or mad cow disease….

[url]Nocebo and nocebo effect[/url]

Ever since I had an instantaneous healing during a flu epidemic when I was a child, I have been able to see the powerlessness of this influence of fear (which is what contagion is) and have had many many more healings, normally as soon as the symptoms try to get a hold in my thinking.

Mary Baker Eddy describes this mental influence many times:
[COLOR="Blue"]
The press unwittingly sends forth many sorrows and diseases among the human family. It does this by giving names to diseases and by printing long descriptions which mirror images of disease distinctly in thought. A new name for an ailment affects people like a Parisian name for a novel garment. Every one hastens to get it. A minutely described disease costs many a man his earthly days of comfort. What a price for human knowledge! (Science and Health 196)

We weep because others weep, we yawn because they yawn, and we have smallpox because others have it; but mortal mind, not matter, contains and carries the infection. When this mental contagion is understood, we shall be more careful of our mental conditions, and we shall avoid loquacious tattling about disease, as we would avoid advocating crime. Neither sympathy nor society should ever tempt us to cherish error in any form, and certainly we should not be error's advocate.

Disease arises, like other mental conditions, from association. Since it is a law of mortal mind that certain diseases should be regarded as contagious, this law obtains credit through association,--calling up the fear that creates the image of disease and its consequent manifestation in the body.

This fact in metaphysics is illustrated by the following incident: A man was made to believe that he occupied a bed where a cholera patient had died. Immediately the symptoms of this disease appeared, and the man died. The fact was, that he had not caught the cholera by material contact, because no cholera patient had been in that bed. (Science and Health 153)

We do have a choice. We are not helpless victims.

And now, here are a few metaphysical answers from about how to protect our thinking against these impositions.
The first is an audio chat you can listen to:

[url] Sickness for sale: don't buy it![/url]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]..The purpose of our discussion isn’t to criticize medical professionals or particular medications. What we really want to accomplish here is to talk about the times when a disease is represented so often and so vividly that it can give the impression that sickness is inevitable or inescapable, and how to guard your thoughts in those cases.

[url] Safe from plagues[/url]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]We need to recognize and be alert to current postulations. Epidemiologists contend the world is awash in plagues: HIV-AIDS, West Nile Fever, SARS (respiratory infection), the current cholera epidemic in Southern Africa, as well as various visitations of influenza, which according to the Communicable Disease Center in Atlanta affects 5 to 20 percent of the American population each year, and leads to about 36,000 deaths a year.

Jolted by these statistics, I could see that protective prayer is a priority. And Christian Science teaches that when we’re confronted with the fear of disease or epidemic, it’s possible to address such medical prognostications and find immunity in a growing understanding of God, who is the all-knowing divine Mind.

[url] Safe 'in the secret place'[/url]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]It has always interested me that flu, influenza (Italian for “influence”), got its name because it was thought the disease was influenced by the stars. While I don’t feel influenced by stars, this makes me ask, What is influencing me? Are news stories of an avian or bird flu pandemic convincing me that a pandemic of some kind cannot be prevented? That it is preordained?

We do have a choice. We are not helpless victims. God, Spirit, is the only real power.

Love and peace,

Judy

60 Replies
Rosi1
Posts: 3879
(@rosi1)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago

Wise words!

My mantra "I am healthy, whole and complete"

Reply
Caroline Putus3
Posts: 2
(@caroline-putus3)
New Member
Joined: 14 years ago

Dear Principled

How I agree with everything in your post! Fear of dis-ease is one way our political masters and the establishment keep control of us, and very effective it is too. Of course people's mindset and beliefs affect their susceptibility to illness, as thought is energy ;).

Thankfully, we have the energy therapies like homoeopathy, healing and acupuncture to deal with infectious dis-ease. To give an example, my 20 year old son is at university in London (germy place!) and has been getting very tired working extremely hard to finish his dissertation and final essays. Last week he phoned me to say he felt generally extremely ill and had a desperately sore throat to the extent of being unable to eat, huge tonsils, and glands swollen in neck, armpit and groin. The doctor provisionally diagnosed glandular fever. I am a homoeopath and prescribed on his symptoms. One day after starting the prescribed homeopathic remedy, he felt almost completely back to normal: glands down, sore throat and malaise 95% better.

We will all be ready and waiting to help people if "Swine Flu" takes hold.

Caroline 🙂

Reply
Principled
Posts: 3674
Topic starter
(@principled_1611052765)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago

Thanks Rosie and Caroline - and welcome to HP Caroline! Great about your son. 🙂

Interestingly, Mary Baker Eddy (whose works I am a student of) started on the road to metaphysical healing through her experiments with homeopathy where she saw how our beliefs influences our bodies.

Love and peace,

Judy

Reply
caveman
Posts: 2688
(@caveman)
Famed Member
Joined: 16 years ago

essentially mind over matter 🙂

Reply
Principled
Posts: 3674
Topic starter
(@principled_1611052765)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago

essentially mind over matter 🙂

Or even divine Mind over matter ? 😉

A few years ago, I came across a book that was a compilation of Christian Scientists’ experiences during World War 1 and as I scanned through, towards the end, I came across one after another testimonies of healing of what people called Spanish ‘Flu. I must admit I questioned why anyone thought it was so important to keep talking about healings of flu – after all, I’ve had so many in my own life, often instantaneous, but more often have been able to protect myself from the various colds and flu that go around, through mentally challenging the symptoms the minute they try to take hold of my thinking. What we don’t allow in, we don’t have to struggle to get out!

Later, I read an article in a Sunday colour supplement about the Spanish ‘Flu which swept through the world in 1918 immediately after the war and which killed 10 million people. It particularly swept through the barracks of servicemen, who having survived the horrors of that war, tragically then succumbed to this dreaded epidemic.

After reading that article, I realised how significant those testimonies of healing through prayer had been, especially where, like in one case, a soldier fell ill on board a crowded troop ship. The Christian Science Minister on board prayed with the understanding of the immutable laws of God and not only did the soldier recover quickly, but not one other person contracted the disease. This is often the case in contagion where it is halted with the understanding of the All-ness of God, good and that happened again and again in 1918.

In that compilation of wartime experiences, I also read about how Christian Scientists helped out in military and civilian hospitals because the pandemic had taken such a toll on the medical staff, quite apart from the huge numbers of patients. Even when places were in quarantine, these volunteers were content to not be able to go home for weeks and (to medical thought) put themselves in danger, in order to help. There are many letters of appreciation from the medical staff.

In the military camps, there were Christian Science Chaplains as well as Camp Welfare Workers who were there to pray for whoever wanted their help, as well as assisting in many other ways.

Here are a couple of snippets from 1918:

“..In the meantime, I had been placed out on the porch where all the hopeless cases were cared for and was not expected to live. Through the kindness of the nurse, the (Christian Science) Welfare Worker was allowed to come to my cot. Work (C S treatment) was done and the healing was instantaneous.
In two days I was released from the hospital in a normal condition but was later placed in what was called the observation ward because the doctors could not understand how I had recovered so quickly”.
Herman F Grant, LA California

“During the period when a number of the men in Vancouver Barracks, Washington, were under medical treatment, suffering because of the epidemic, I had listened to so much talk of the disease that I was caught napping, for I was not standing “porter at the door of thought”‚ (Science and Health page 392), and as a result there was evidenced the symptoms of the ‘flu in all its fury. I tried for two days to overcome it, but on the third day it seemed that a trip to the hospital was inevitable. I managed to get away from the tent and found a (Christian Science) Camp Worker who talked with me for an hour and a half and made clear the thought that God gave man dominion over all error and therefore I was the master over any evil that tried to attack me, and he held this thought so firmly that I was suddenly freed from all discord and returned to camp rejoicing and slept well all night.”
August Brauns, Portland, Oregon

I’m writing this to reassure everyone that you are not helpless victims of chance – you do have a choice. The most effective antidote I know to all disease is the understanding that there is a higher law than the so-called “laws” of matter, or of medical theories.

[COLOR="Indigo"]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8)

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(Romans 8)

Here, in an article I often go back to on , the practitioner describes the healing of one of his patients of Lyme Disease – something much feared in the US:

[url]Getting below the surface[/url]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]The only antidote applied in my friend’s case was scientific prayer, or Christian Science treatment, and it was effective. He rapidly regained the use of his limbs, the pain abated and he was restored to normalcy.

The same law that was applied to neutralize Lyme disease can be applied to avert and correct chaos of any nature, including the fear of a transcontinental bird flu (or swine) virus.

Love and peace,

Judy

Reply
caveman
Posts: 2688
(@caveman)
Famed Member
Joined: 16 years ago

Very interesting Judy, thanks

Reply
Reiki Pixie
Posts: 2380
(@reiki-pixie)
Noble Member
Joined: 14 years ago

A topic of conversation in my Tai Chi class tonight was about fear-mongering and the media about this swine flu. I'm starting to think that this is good for the potential big profits for big pharm. I don't think the size, density and pollution of Mexico City helps the situation.

As for mind over matter, why not mind within matter! Is there a difference between mind and matter? Is such categorisation an illusion? If seeing though this illusion, we can wish to be well and whole (holy).

RP

Reply
kcatdeejay
Posts: 441
(@kcatdeejay)
Reputable Member
Joined: 15 years ago

Total Agreement

The news idiots have to have something to fill time on the air. If you gave them something worthwhile to report on, they would be speechless. Is the Bubonic Plague heading for on encore production? Sensationalism is all they have to sell, and sell they will !!

kcat

Reply
kcatdeejay
Posts: 441
(@kcatdeejay)
Reputable Member
Joined: 15 years ago

Big Pharma is already gearing up for the never-ending chariot ride to bigger profits.

Reply
myarka
Posts: 5221
(@myarka)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 13 years ago

Big Pharma is already gearing up for the never-ending chariot ride to bigger profits.

..... and you don't think the suppliment industry is going to cash in as well?

Myarka

Reply
Venetian
Posts: 10419
(@venetian)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 18 years ago

..... and you don't think the suppliment industry is going to cash in as well?

Myarka

That's a good point, and despite our belief in complementary medicine, I'm sure many wild, wacky, and simply useless 'protections' will get offered. The same thing happened in 1918, some people ponging with all sorts of lotions and ointments applied on them.

V

Reply
(@reiki-pixie)
Noble Member
Joined: 14 years ago

Yes, Myarka has made a valid point. I think we all have to be aware of consumerism, whether conventional or complementary/alternative.

I have already received a commercial email about a book by a Jayney Goddard, consisting of alternative advice about remedies for Bird/Swine Flu. I not saying this is right or wrong, but where do we draw the line between informed advice and making a profit?

RP

Reply
Binah
Posts: 3846
(@binah)
Famed Member
Joined: 16 years ago

Scaremongering or not, I think the WHO would not raise this alarm unnecessarily. However, there is no need to go into fear mode and if you do there are plenty of effective remedies around to help us out for example Mimulus a bach flower remedy is a good one. I do agree that the power of thought, be it by prayer, intention, focus can work miracles. I took a look yesterday at Marianne Williamson's site and she had this to say very short, very effective.

Don't get me wrong, as good plain common sense advice like hand washing care is very effective. I notice in the PCT's this year they are awash with adverts reminding the staff to wash their hands.

Love Binah
xx

Reply
kcatdeejay
Posts: 441
(@kcatdeejay)
Reputable Member
Joined: 15 years ago

I'll stick with what Philip Day and Dr's Mercola and Douglass have to say about the 'pandemic'-a healthy dose of what the news media is spreading around would do wonders for your plants and foliage.

kcat

Reply
myarka
Posts: 5221
(@myarka)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 13 years ago

I'll stick with what Philip Day and Dr's Mercola and Douglass have to say about the 'pandemic'-a healthy dose of what the news media is spreading around would do wonders for your plants and foliage.

kcat

Why?

Surely that's what they'd say because they are anti-medicine?

But between them and the big Pharma, the truth might be found somewhere.

Myarka.

Reply
Principled
Posts: 3674
Topic starter
(@principled_1611052765)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago

Hi everyone,

A few years ago, I was horrified to read an article about how scientists had predicted the return of the Spanish Flu (that I wrote about above) and actually dug up some bodies that had been quickly buried in the permafrost somewhere in Scandinavia in order to try to find an antidote. Some would say that this is sensible. However, they do not understand how our beliefs and fears can be objectified on our bodies. This virus has since been man-manufactured and work is going on for an antidote.

Have you ever noticed though, that despite the tremendous andvances in medical technology etc, there are not less diseases? Treating the symptoms is back-to-front to my understanding.

Thanks Binah for the link to Marianne Williamson. It’s so good that we are all singing from the same songbook. 🙂

As for mind over matter, why not mind within matter! Is there a difference between mind and matter? Is such categorisation an illusion? If seeing though this illusion, we can wish to be well and whole (holy).

RP

I agree. The belief of dis-ease IS the disease.

But I would say that rather than “wishing” to be well and whole, we should understand that in spiritual reality (which is actually the ONLY reality – everything else is illusion) we always have been and always will be, well and whole, perfect and complete, the idea of the infinite Mind, God.

I totally agree that it is wise to follow sensible hygiene procedures, which will help calm other’s fears most of all, but what I am talking about on this thread is an awesome power (far, far higher than mere positive thinking which only uses the human mind) that most people are totally unaware of and which the rabbi on the thread [url]God is universal[/url] felt and proved so decisively, and which not only cured his father, who was dying of terminal cancer (in under a week) but which transformed his life and understanding of God.

As Mary Baker Eddy wrote in the Preface to Science and Health:
[COLOR="Blue"]
Many imagine that the phenomena of physical healing in Christian Science present only a phase of the action of the human mind, which action in some unexplained way results in the cure of disease. On the contrary, Christian Science rationally explains that all other pathological methods are the fruits of human faith in matter,--faith in the workings, not of Spirit, but of the fleshly mind which must yield to Science.

The physical healing of Christian Science results now, as in Jesus' time, from the operation of divine Principle, before which sin and disease lose their reality in human consciousness and disappear as naturally and as necessarily as darkness gives place to light and sin to reformation.

As I said above, Jesus promised us:

[COLOR="Indigo"]Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. (John 8)

And the great news is that:

[COLOR="Blue"]Truth has a healing effect, even when not fully understood. (Science and Health 152)

Like with the rabbi, this woman too discovered the immense power of Truth when it was needed (and even though she did not understand it fully):

During WWII a woman received a call from a military hospital. Her brother was serving in the Merchant Marine. She was told that her brother had sustained a crushing fall from the highest point of his ship but they wouldn’t say anymore but requested that she come immediately to the hospital.

She was a very new student of Science and Health and had only read through half of the book. As she felt panic rising inside she thought "What does the book say I should do?" The answer that came from her simple understanding of what she had read so far was: "What you don’t take in (into consciousness), you don’t have to get out!" (Here of course, we are talking about the mortal consciousness, which must be exchanged for the Christ consciousness, in order for harmony and healing to be brought to light.)

During the hour’s drive to the hospital, she just held to that thought, "What you don’t take in, you don’t have to get out!". She refused admission to fear. She understood that this was not an exercise of human will, but held instead to a prayerful acceptance of the Allness of God’s perfection, the Christ consciousness, which fills all space. This was not a mind-over-matter denial of the material "facts” but instead, a refusal to even allow them in to disturb the thought and a steadfast yielding to and holding onto the perfection and All-ness of God, good.

When she saw her brother it was a dreadful picture. He was unconscious, he’d fallen feet first and his legs and lower spine were crushed. He was not expected to live.

To read the rest of this awesome healing:

What I’m saying is that we can help heal the world of this fear (which will also rid it of the belief of disease).

Love and peace,

Judy

Reply
myarka
Posts: 5221
(@myarka)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 13 years ago

Have you ever noticed though, that despite the tremendous andvances in medical technology etc, there are not less diseases?

The answer to that question is fairly straight forward and is in 2 parts:

- Life expectancy in the western world has has increased from about 48 a hundred years ago to somewhere around 80 today. For example the most common cause of death for the 50-64 age group is cancer (National Statistics). Therefore with people living longer, they are exposed to a greater veriety of diseases.

- Many pathogens evolve much faster than other organisms and therefore are able to adapt to their environment and build resistance to drugs.

I don't believe there is a spiritual element in the cause of diseases but it is more to do with the natural order of organisms. This natural order can either be contributed or interfered with by the hands of man.

The big pharma spend most of their R&D budget dealing with diseases that effect the developed world because there is greater return. Through over consumption the world supports a system of unfair trade where the developing world cannot compete and are therefore left to starve and become victims of disease.

IMO When people degrade disease to a spiritual matter, they are in fact sitting in judgement over the world's starving who have no access to health services.

Perhaps I'm lucky being in my 50th year and never suffered from flu, but I think it's more to do with where I was born. That I can't change, but I can use my voice for those who don't have access to the internet, those who are denied the right of life because of the west's over consumption. Perhaps one day we might realise that all human life is equally important, and that is the greatest spiritual enlightenment.

We all know the "good samaritan" story, but when it comes to providing health care equally for all men, we walk on the other side of the road.

Myarka

Reply
Venetian
Posts: 10419
(@venetian)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 18 years ago

I don't believe there is a spiritual element in the cause of diseases IMO When people degrade disease to a spiritual matter, they are in fact sitting in judgement over the world's starving who have no access to health services.

I have no idea about your religious beliefs or orientation, if any, but would point out that this is very contrary to the point of view of the protagonist of the Gospels.

I don't mean to be religious here :), but rather to point out that many saints and sages of both West and East have, in the opinion of many, displayed a practical use of spiritual (/mental) forces, resulting in healing being exerted.

True, given the supposed 'realities' of this physical world as we know it or see it, dis-ease appears to have a material basis. But the point is that ultimately the basis of everything - of matter itself - is from beyond time and space. I do think that, again, given the supposed 'realities' of the world we see 'appearing' around us, since we are not all saints and sages (yet), practical measures are also absolutely required for sure, and we shouldn't be too otherworldly.

For the healing of both self and world, a two-pronged approach is necessary IMHO, combining practical measures with the introduction of spiritual measures. And ultimately, no "battle" in the physical world, such as the fight against dis-ease just as one example, can ever be won by meeting it on it own illusory terms. That's meeting maya with maya. So maya wins, and dis-ease along with other global or individual woes continue.

V

Reply
Topic starter
(@principled_1611052765)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago

IMO When people degrade disease to a spiritual matter, they are in fact sitting in judgement over the world's starving who have no access to health services.

Hey Myarka, What you've just said is exactly my point - it's so unfair especially that those in the third world have to suffer as they do, when actually, this power of God is always present and absolutely free!

There are only small numbers at yet, compared with the huge populations; but thousands of people in Africa, India, Indonesia and South America have been healed of every possible condition, including AIDS, Malaria and yes, even of unemployment and poverty through the power of God.

Here for example is a healing of in the Belgium Congo.

There have been some remarkable experiences of protection (through prayer) when people have been about to be raped or killed have found that there attackers have just stopped (or in the case below, the guns jammed).

Pierre Pradervan (author of The Gentle Art of Blessing) often writes about the spiritual laws that Jesus so fully demonstrated (and that were elucidated for this age by Mary Baker Eddy.) Here is an excerpt from one:

Facing a firing squad
My friend Antonio is a spiritual healer in Angola. During the terrible civil war that tore his country for 30 years, he at one time sought to flee the capital that was being attacked by the rebels. He had been praying non-stop for three days. On the outskirts of the city, the truck of civilians he was in was stopped by the rebels, who separated the women and the children from the men, who were taken to the nearby football ground to be shot. Antonio, who practises a non-dualist spiritual teaching based on the understanding of the complete supremacy of these spiritual laws, was just knowing (not hoping!) that ‘God, the only Life, is one and all. He was my one and only life, and that of the so-called rebels. This Life, which is One, could not menace itself.’ (I am drastically shortening his spiritual affirmations). The officer told his men to shoot but not one bullet came out of the rifles! For 15 minutes the rebels checked their rifles, but not once did a single rifle function, and the officer finally released the civilians saying ‘Deus esta com vosco’ (God is with you)...

PP continues:

I have in my files innumerable examples of these laws in operation collected over the years.

The existence and operation of these laws is one of the best kept secrets of our world. And for a good reason. If they exist, the whole superstructure of materialistic science comes crumbling down. And as they exist, this gives us immense hope for the future of the planet. We have at our fingertips, so to speak, unbelievable power for good and healing.

I just long for the time when it will be more widely known and recognised so this terrible injustice on mankind is lifted.

Love and peace,

Judy

Reply
Principled
Posts: 3674
Topic starter
(@principled_1611052765)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago

Hey V,

You came sailing in here while I was composing my post to Myarka! 😉

I don't mean to be religious here 🙂

And why not? This is after all the Religion / Faiths > General – Faiths pages!

Love and peace,

Judy

Reply
Fudge
Posts: 488
(@fudge)
Reputable Member
Joined: 13 years ago

Myarka well put.

Now .......

Hi everyone,

A few years ago, I was horrified to read an article about how scientists had predicted the return of the Spanish Flu

Judy

Had to quote that this as it is a known fact, that even the Swine Flu has been around before, let alone the Spanish Flu, Australian Flu, etc, etc, these things come in waves, peaks and troughs, as do other virus's, sickness, it's just part of the pattern of life.

There are a few documented 'spontanious' healing, but they do tend to be be in the distant past, plus documentation seems to be a bit patchy as well, I do agree it can happen but this must'nt give false hope to the many millions of people who actually do have something wrong with them, who may need a simple course of antibiotics or an op which would help them to become healthy again. (that is if they have access to the necessary resources)

There are certain diseases/illnesses which cannot be 'cured', you just have to live with it, nature will take it's course, the last thing that person needs to hear is someone telling them well I cured mine in a few days, the question needs to be asked did they actually have the same illness, with the same symptoms, etc, etc.

It would be a fabulous world if all hospitals and support staff could shut up shop and say well you can all be healed in a few days, if you believe in x, y or z, you better go to that building x, or that building y and they will look after you and heal you, you'll be better in a few days as a book or so and so told me so - so it must be true.

Oh well if you believe this - well good for you, but I live in the real world which really can be hard at times, but on the other hand amazing things do happen all the time.

Fudge

Reply
Principled
Posts: 3674
Topic starter
(@principled_1611052765)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago

It would be a fabulous world if all hospitals and support staff could shut up shop and say well you can all be healed in a few days, if you believe in x, y or z, you better go to that building x, or that building y and they will look after you and heal you, you'll be better in a few days as a book or so and so told me so - so it must be true.

Oh well if you believe this - well good for you, but I live in the real world which really can be hard at times, but on the other hand amazing things do happen all the time.

Hi Fudge,

I can quite understand where you are coming from! And if I had not experienced first hand (all my life) the practical operation of the healing system called Christian Science, I too would be as skeptical as you are!

People think I'm trying to push a religion at them - I'm not. It's simply a whole different way of thinking, which is God-based, rather than matter-based. It involves a change of consciousness. It is called Science because it is based on repeatable, demonstrable spiritual laws. When correctly applied and understood, it works. There is not a 100% success rate, (doctors don't have those either) because often people's fears, prejudices (or closed minds!) get in the way. (After all, there is a constant, proveable science of mathematics but people still make errors!)

But there are tens of thousands of documented healings from the past 120+ years, in the Christian Science periodicals and our Mother Church in Boston holds affadavits, X-rays etc. Interestingly, we are always ignored whenever anyone does an investigation into healing through spiritual means. I guess we've just kept too quiet about it over the decades as there is huge hostility and misunderstanding. However, I had to smile at your comments which were the opposite of a woman's, last March, who was looking through a book of a collection of healings at a MBS exhibition and she turned on me demanding to know why we were letting Jade Goody die - why hadn't we told her about Christian Science? If someone had told her, we would have been accused of giving her false hope. You're dammed if you do and you're damned if you don't! :confused:

People who are living full and active lives after being given up by the medical profession and told that there was no hope, will not agree with your statement that, "there are certain diseases/illnesses which cannot be 'cured', you just have to live with it" (or die with it!) A friend who is a CS practitioner (someone who prays for others) was telling me of a lady in a hospice with terminal cancer who was given Mary Baker Eddy's book Science and Health. She left the hospice, asked my friend to pray with her and was very soon completely clear.

Here is a link to another cancer healing by a former HP member:

the last thing that person needs to hear is someone telling them well I cured mine in a few days..

I agree and I'm not trying to do that. This is a thread on the Religion/Faiths pages to encourage people to protect themselves metaphysically from getting ill in the first place and to pray for the world! There is a thread about precautions against swine 'flu on the medical pages - but this is one on the General - Faiths pages! 😉

If you're interested in reading more healings, I have collected quite a few together on the thread "Healing through the Christ Consciousness" on the Christianity pages and even if you were to to only read the links I've put on this thread, you would get a glimpse of the awesome power of God.

Love and peace,

Judy

Reply
Fudge
Posts: 488
(@fudge)
Reputable Member
Joined: 13 years ago

Now reading through your post what struck me as the most interesting was:-

"MBS exhibition and she turned on me demanding to know why we were letting Jade Goody die - why hadn't we told her about Christian Science? If someone had told her, we would have been accused of giving her false hope. You're dammed if you do and you're damned if you don't!"

The question I ask myself if Jade had been a CS would she had died or not? Of course we will never know the answer. If Jade had become a CS would she have got cancer, would she have been cured if she signed up as a CS once she knew she had cancer? Again we will never know.

As for living with health problems (which could be minor or major) millions of people do and just go on with their lives and not actually die straight away (but we all do eventually). Who are we to judge if someone lives a short or a long time, are considered sick or not? I'm not going to go into detail but most people will get the drift.

As for responding in the Religion / Faiths page, it is an open forum for everyone to respond, not everyone has to agree, we are all free to challenge and put our point of view across, I dont find it necessary to quote from other sources all the time, I just write what I think and feel as an individual at this moment in time.

Fudge

P.S. It was the title of your thread which caught my attention

Reply
myarka
Posts: 5221
(@myarka)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 13 years ago

As the forum says, this is about faith. We all have faith, we all have strong faith, but where we direct our faith differs. Some may grow up in a particular faith and evolve to another and mature to another. But we all have faith.

I know some say they've lost faith, but what they mean is that they've lost faith in what they had before. We have strong faith there will be another day tomorrow, some evern have faith their favourite TV programme will be aired, but we all have faith.

Now this discussion can only be argued from our own point of faith, and that's the problem. Others cannot see things the way we do, our faith is like a foreign language. So in a way these discussions will become a cycle of claim and denial.

So let's appreciate that there are different views about the nature of disease because I don't think HP should be about winning an argument, but about learning from our fellow companions.

There is such a wealth of learning outside our own beliefs and it's good to know what foundations of faith others hold to.

For myself, it doesn't make me any less spiritual because I don't believe in a monotheistic God, or because I don't believe in spirit guides. But it would be nice to be able to share what I do believe without being put into a box of an unbeliever or a sceptic or whatever box you put people into that don't share your views. There is a world, a universe out there that is far greater than all the wisdom and intellect that has ever been exhibited on this earth. We all have been given glimpses of the light, and we may not all be able to link them up, but mine is no less valid than yours.

So IMO it doesn't matter if there's swine flu or not, it's the nature of nature, the battle of the genome. Is mankind the master of the genome? I don't know, but what I do know is that at the molecular level we are all the same. When we die, our molecules are cycled throughout the earth and we become reborn, in other plants, animals and other living organisms. Therefore we are part of the unity of the earth, which is part of the unity of the universe, which is part of the unity of something that none of us comprehend. But through all this we have the spirit of humanity and I believe that above all things we should love our neighbour as oursevles. Not one of us can claim to have fulfilled that aim, because we will always put qualification and predjudice in the way first.

Perhaps when we've fed all the poor, protected the innocent, provided homes for the homeless and educated all children, then perhaps might be the right time to debate the nature of disease.

Myarka

Reply
Fudge
Posts: 488
(@fudge)
Reputable Member
Joined: 13 years ago

Myarka well expressed.

I wish I had your use of language and expression 🙂

Fudge

Reply
Venetian
Posts: 10419
(@venetian)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 18 years ago

This is a thread on the Religion/Faiths pages to encourage people to protect themselves metaphysically from getting ill in the first place and to pray for the world!

That happens to be my own particular interest, the last bit about praying for the world. It's my long-standing background so I resonate with that. There may be individual reasons mortals can't know about why one person can be healed by spiritual means, and another not; but I do believe in the overall power of prayer (or whatever methods people use) to help or to reverse a large-scale situation. 🙂

V

Reply
(@venetian)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 18 years ago

Perhaps when we've fed all the poor, protected the innocent, provided homes for the homeless and educated all children, then perhaps might be the right time to debate the nature of disease.

From a spiritual perspective:
The protagonist of the Gospels healed untold numbers of people, and according to the Gospel or writings from the Aramaic discovered by Edmond Szekely, he did go on to tell people the nature of the causes of disease and how to avoid or cure them by practical means.

Yet he also said: "The poor ye have with you always." (He didn't really mean the materialistically 'poor' IMHO, but that there are times when it's important to go up a hill and contact God for yourself and see to your own spirituality, as people in more need are there always.) He didn't wait until there were no 'poor'. 😮

From a scientific perspective:
Where would we be if scientifically-minded people did not pick up the gauntlet of debating - or helping to discover - the nature of forces such as magnetism, or how to harness electricity for our use, or the nature of matter, or how to use solar and wind energy, or - the nature (and cures) of this or that disease, which overall often links in to the nature of disease in general. What would we do if they waited until all social wrongs are righted? (Who'd even be chosen to raise the flag and say that job is done? Which political belief-system does that?)

No - individuals pursue their own calling according to their own inner timetables to aid humanity. There are no steps 1 to 10, with somebody telling us we can't do step 6, since we haven't accomplished step 3! That would be a limitation imposed upon us; thankfully there's no such thing.

V

Reply
(@myarka)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 13 years ago

IMO to accept the world order and prioritise above the feeding of the poor is to be complicit in their starvation. So I would say learning to run comes after learning to walk.

We are told that world problems are resolved by the catalysts of war and space research. But we have a higher catalyst in front of our noses, hunger and freedom.

We now live an age where social ills can be set right, it is probably the first time in history that this is achievable. But it has a cost to the western world, we will have to take a hit to our standard of living.

Today I was behind a pink Hummer stretched limo in traffic, that said it all.

Myarka.

Reply
Venetian
Posts: 10419
(@venetian)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 18 years ago

Hi Myarka,

We'll have to let that one rest, as I can see your background and beliefs - I just realised what one of your links is. But civilisations, so far, have risen and fallen. As one nation rises, another gets poorer. We fling - or lovingly render - physical assistance at untold problems ... and the problems will remain or re-emerge elsewhere or later. That's because the fundamental calibre of human nature is not raised, leavened or transformed by physical aid.

Again, it's like the subject of treating dis-ease. You do indeed use physical means to mend a broken arm. But why was another human perhaps so angry in the first place as to attack and break it? Problems go on, and on, and on, resurfacing elsewhere, when only treated by material means. If we don't see to consciousness, the power of consciousness, how it is limiting humanity now and how it can raise humanity by higher consciousness, then "solving human problems" is like a hamster running around his wheel. On and on. Successfully solve one hunger-problem, and another emerges. (Which is not to say we still don't run that wheel and help others.) But it's never a lasting solution. Human nature has it that things go wrong again. In 1976 I was in the middle of the Bangladesh starvation - caused by political motives, by human nature untransformed.

That's what Jesus meant by, "The poor ye have with you always." Interesting words - from Him! Ultimate solutions are in getting out of the loop - in not solving maya with maya. That's why he cured the sick, yes, but more importantly then went on to lay a spiritual background for oneness with God: the ultimate healing.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that, and it's slightly off-topic. Anyhow, your way by you, and my way by others is a nice double-whammy solution, I'd say. 🙂

V

Reply
Share: