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No longer vegetarian, but my conscience is clear.


Anne Mary
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I used to be a vegetarian but now I eat meat. Why did I use to be veggie? Because of the way animals are treated. Why did I change? After cancer treatment my body needed the nutrients in easy form.
But I do combine eating meat with a very clear conscience.
Across the road from us is a pheasant shoot. The odd pheasant we get given, certainly had a happy life.
Our neighbour has a few pigs; his wife does not like the trotters, so they go in our freezer.
Our churchyard is grazed by sheep, so every so often we have, more or less organic, lamb.
Not only would it be a waste not to eat these animals, if treated properly they are very good for us. Bones for instance are not just what gives meat flavour, when made into stock they supply many nutrients which we miss out on nowadays.
The Chinese say: 'eat meat as a condiment, not a main part of dinner.' I only eat it two-three times a week, and then not much.
You may have heard of 'nose to tail' eating: "using virtually the entirety of any plant or animal". Meaning: cook with under-utilized meats so all parts of an animal are eaten. If we respect our food and those who supplied it, we should do no less.
([url]Read Meat: From Head to Tail[/url]).

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Mountaineer
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Posting all that - and plugging your meat-eating blog - on the 'Vegetarian and Vegan' section seems to me to be more than a little provocative...

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Anne Mary
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I thought these forums were for discussing things? For people who were interested in a particular subject? 😮

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Crowan
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Posting all that - and plugging your meat-eating blog - on the 'Vegetarian and Vegan' section seems to me to be more than a little provocative...

I don't think it's any different from "Do you believe in God?" being posted in the 'Christianity' Forum.
Where else could it go? Because it is an interesting topic, worthy of discussion.

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Mountaineer
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I thought these forums were for discussing things? For people who were interested in a particular subject? 😮

They are, but in the appropiate section. The Vegetarian & Vegan section is not the right place for a 'meat is wonderful' thread is it. This sort of thing stir up arguments.

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Mountaineer
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I don't think it's any different from "Do you believe in God?" being posted in the 'Christianity' Forum.
Where else could it go? Because it is an interesting topic, worthy of discussion.

She could have put it in 'Diet and Nutrition'.

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Crowan
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They are, but in the appropiate section. The Vegetarian & Vegan section is not the right place for a 'meat is wonderful' thread is it. This sort of thing stir up arguments.

Where would be the right place?

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Crowan
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Sorry - we posted at the same time!:)

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Anne Mary
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Sorry. :013:

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Energylz
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Posting all that - and plugging your meat-eating blog - on the 'Vegetarian and Vegan' section seems to me to be more than a little provocative...

I understand your concern, though as Anne Mary said she was an ex-vegetarian who had taken up eating meat again, and was explaining the reasons for, what she believes to be, her clear conscience, then the Veggie and Vegan forum is a perfectly appropriate place to discuss it.

It's only provocative to those who choose to take it that way. It's perfectly reasonable that there are some veggie's and vegan's out there who are interested to know why someone may turn to eating meat again, and what benefits they are finding from it. Those who are completely against it, are likely to be those who hear the word "meat" and turn very 'anti' the person talking. I could understand it if someone was coming onto this forum calling all veggie's and vegan's names and taunting them with tales of meat eating when they've never been a veggie/vegan themselves, but that's not the case here; and as this is a discussion forum where people can (and should if they follow the guidelines) discuss things in a friendly manner, it could be said that the response is perhaps more provocative than the original post.

And I don't see where Anne Mary has plugged her own 'meat eating blog'? She posted a link to a blog (not her own from what I can tell) to support her stance on why she believes eating meat in the way she does is keeping her conscience clear. That may not be to the agreement of other veggies and vegans, but it's an opinion that is allowed to be shared.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

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Anne Mary
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Thank you Energylz.
My son just explained to me at length about flaming, and trolling, and why I should not have posted it where I did. God, I did not know it was so difficult (or should this be in Christianity? 😉 ).
I tend to speak in forums as I speak in real life. I may have to mend my ways!

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Energylz
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No worries Anne Mary,
As one of the moderating team, if I'd thought it was obviously in the wrong place, I would have moved it to a more appropriate place. 😉

All Love and Reiki hugs

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jnani
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Thank you Energylz.
My son just explained to me at length about flaming, and trolling, .
I tend to speak in forums as I speak in real life. I may have to mend my ways!

Speak only as you speak in real life. Is there any other way? and whatever you do, don't mend your ways from fear of 'flames' or trolls! 😉

I am a vegetarian who can make exception for bacon, ham, chicken etc. I am a vegetarian when not eating meat and a vegan when not eating dairy products What you eat is your business. Eat what you like. Be happy.

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Tashanie
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I think its an interesting thread. What people eat is determined by many things including their personal and ethical beliefs. And such things tend to engender strong feelings about what is right and wrong. Of course the truth is these issues are very grey and not black and white at all.

Debate that makes people really THINK about their views is always beneficial IMO

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Mountaineer
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I understand your concern, though as Anne Mary said she was an ex-vegetarian who had taken up eating meat again, and was explaining the reasons for, what she believes to be, her clear conscience, then the Veggie and Vegan forum is a perfectly appropriate place to discuss it.

It's only provocative to those who choose to take it that way. It's perfectly reasonable that there are some veggie's and vegan's out there who are interested to know why someone may turn to eating meat again, and what benefits they are finding from it. Those who are completely against it, are likely to be those who hear the word "meat" and turn very 'anti' the person talking. I could understand it if someone was coming onto this forum calling all veggie's and vegan's names and taunting them with tales of meat eating when they've never been a veggie/vegan themselves, but that's not the case here; and as this is a discussion forum where people can (and should if they follow the guidelines) discuss things in a friendly manner, it could be said that the response is perhaps more provocative than the original post.

And I don't see where Anne Mary has plugged her own 'meat eating blog'? She posted a link to a blog (not her own from what I can tell) to support her stance on why she believes eating meat in the way she does is keeping her conscience clear. That may not be to the agreement of other veggies and vegans, but it's an opinion that is allowed to be shared.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Just found this.

For the record Giles, I wasn't making an issue of Annemieke's right to express her personal opinion. That is what Internet forums are all about after all.

What I was flagging up was when people vehemently oppose the slaughter of animals for moral and/or spiritual reasons (this is the Vegetarian and Vegan section) is it appropiate to post a link to a website that glorifies meat eating and a link for a video that extolls the merits of and explains how to cook the carcass of a pig, from 'head to tail'?

Would it be appropiate to post the same link on the Islam or Judaism section, where people who for slightly different moral and spiritual reasons wouldn't be anymore appreciative of it than vegetarians or vegans would be?

Incidentally having read Annemieke's website, yes it is pro-meat. ( "If you are havng an animal killed it is not just more economic but also more respectful to use all of it. Not just steaks and chops and dispose of the rest. This is called 'nose to tail' cooking")

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Energylz
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Just found this.

For the record Giles, I wasn't making an issue of Annemieke's right to express her personal opinion. That is what Internet forums are all about after all.

What I was flagging up was when people vehemently oppose the slaughter of animals for moral and/or spiritual reasons (this is the Vegetarian and Vegan section) is it appropiate to post a link to a website that glorifies meat eating and a link for a video that extolls the merits of and explains how to cook the carcass of a pig, from 'head to tail'?

Don't get me wrong, I know what you're saying, however, in fairness, we cannot judge all veggies and vegans to be vehemently opposed to the slaughter of animals. My other half is veggie, but wouldn't take offense at reading information like that... after all, it's not forcing her to a) read it or b) cook it (though she will cook meat for the family - she doesn't impose her choices on others). Conversely I'm sure (in fact I know) there are v&v's out there who are so adamant about changing other people's view they will make a point of being offended by it, but like I said, they would get offended by someone just mentioning the word "meat". 😮

Would it be appropiate to post the same link on the Islam or Judaism section, where people who for slightly different moral and spiritual reasons wouldn't be anymore appreciative of it than vegetarians or vegans would be?

If the person posting it was discussing from the point of being of those faithr (or having previously been of those faiths) then yes, it would be appropriate.

Incidentally having read Annemieke's website, yes it is pro-meat. ( "If you are havng an animal killed it is not just more economic but also more respectful to use all of it. Not just steaks and chops and dispose of the rest. This is called 'nose to tail' cooking")

Well, the website Anne Mary posted is not her own blog. If your referring to the blog in her signature I can't find that wording there (perhaps it's on some older posts, but I haven't gone looking for it), but what people have on their own websites is not related to this thread, so I don't see you point... and even if someone is "pro-meat", that doesn't mean they cannot talk in the v&v forum about why they have changed from being a veggie and gone back to eating meat, so that would seem like a moot point from what I can see from a moderating point of view.

However, this is detracting from the point of the thread, so if you'd like to raise any specific issues about things, feel free to PM me and I'll look into it.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

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Reiki Pixie
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I was in a restaurant a weeks ago in India with a vegan friend (and I'm a lacto-ovo veggie). We both chose the same dish, but the waiter couldn't guarentee that it would be vegan as there could be contamination of meatiness from the cooking oil. So she chose a different meal. Then she said to me are you not concerned whether that the dish I choosen may not be truly veggie. I replied that I prefer that it was totally veggie, but worrying was not good for my health (being very VATA and have problems in gaining weight) and being too fussy would be counter-productive.

Moral of the story: extremism are not a good reflection of holistic health in a boarder sense. All food production leads to suffering in one way or another, and being conscious, grateful and appreciative of the food you are consuming is a more balanced, wholesome view and action.

RP

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sacrel
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Brought up in a meat eating family I have enjoyed meat all my life until about 5 yrs ago I somehow decided I wanted to become vegetarian this lasted a few months or so. I can recall feeling relaxed and a sense of inner cleansing if that means anything? It felt great.....at first.
But unfortunately the aroma of meat cooking everywhere I went and a need to feel more energetic was too overpowering. One thing I remembered was feeling a lack of energy. But overall maybe from being brought up on meat I had to return to being a meat eater.


It’s interesting the arguments against and for vegetarian, both I expect have their benefits to those who decide the route to take.

Off topic slightly decisions as these always reminds me of a story I once heard about medicine. 'A couple belief against drugs being tested on animals began to struggle with their belief when told the same drugs tested on animals were produced for medicine to save lives as would be theirs'.


Vegetarian was an interesting period for me, feeling the benefits I can have some understanding why people stay this way. Society at large seem to promote the meat eating lifestyle, which was difficult to ignore.

Blessings


Sacrel

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Anne Mary
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One thing I remembered was feeling a lack of energy.

How old are you Sacrel? It might be that as we age, our bodies are not so good anymore at digesting food and we need our nutrients in an easier format?
Our family was veggie for a long time, and then my husband developed a very long-lasting fatigue, which only cleared up when he started eating meat again. People differ, and I think his body does need regular meat, at least these days.
As for me, though I never had been interested in meat and found it easy to not eat it, a few years later the same happened after chemoradiation. This affected my kidneys and general digestion, and now I need meat a few times a week - or fancy chemical pills, which have side effects. So no contest there!

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Crystal elf
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How old are you Sacrel? It might be that as we age, our bodies are not so good anymore at digesting food and we need our nutrients in an easier format?
Our family was veggie for a long time, and then my husband developed a very long-lasting fatigue, which only cleared up when he started eating meat again. People differ, and I think his body does need regular meat, at least these days.
As for me, though I never had been interested in meat and found it easy to not eat it, a few years later the same happened after chemoradiation. This affected my kidneys and general digestion, and now I need meat a few times a week - or fancy chemical pills, which have side effects. So no contest there!

Hi,

Don't really know about the age thing, but when I went veggie, I felt less energetic and later on, this stopped. When I mentioned this to a friend, they suggested that suddenly dropping meat from your diet and replacing it with veggies may cause the body to detoxify more quickly than usual and this was the reason for the initial lack of energy. Does anyone know if there is any truth in this? Nowadays, I'm more inclined to believe that the lack of energy could be caused by a lack of some nutrients or vitamins especially at the early stages when you are not sure what to replace meat with. As you get more varied in your diet, then maybe you get the missing nutrients from other sources. This is possibly why people do okay eating a veggie diet in a country where the population is predominantly vegetarian as there is such a varied diet readily available that you can get all the nutrients you need. In countries/cultures where the population is predominantly meat eating, you may have to plan your eating a bit more carefully to make sure you are getting the right nutrition as just cutting out meat and not replacing it could leave you with deficiencies which could eventually show up as feeling lacking in energy.

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Anne Mary
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What you say makes a lot of sense. Though in the case of our family, we had been eating vegetarian happily for years.
There may be all sorts of reasons: cultural, different bodies, diet, diseases, climate, and also how you spend your days. My husband does hard physical work, but then he has always done that, also as a veggie.
Love, A.

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Elizabeth001
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It is good that you try to eat healthy, but my opinion is that you have to take it slowly because the body was accustomed to eat meat. It is normal for your body to feel weak because you out of eating an important source of protein, vitamins. You should try to replace meat with vegetables wich gives you the vitamins you took some meat 🙂

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Mountaineer
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Hi,

Don't really know about the age thing, but when I went veggie, I felt less energetic and later on, this stopped. When I mentioned this to a friend, they suggested that suddenly dropping meat from your diet and replacing it with veggies may cause the body to detoxify more quickly than usual and this was the reason for the initial lack of energy. Does anyone know if there is any truth in this?

...you may have to plan your eating a bit more carefully to make sure you are getting the right nutrition as just cutting out meat and not replacing it could leave you with deficiencies which could eventually show up as feeling lacking in energy.

Two very valid points.

First one, it's low blood sugar. Meat takes a long time for the body to break down, so its a slow release food. Natural foods like vegetables, fruit, grains etc are more quickly digested. The tank will be empty sooner on a vegetarian diet, so one would need to have a snack to top up.
But it will be a much healthier tank of course! And vegetarians are not running the bowel and other types of cancer risk meat eaters are.

So true. People for the best of reasons give up meat, but then are haphazard about ensuring they get enough protein from vegetarian sources. All diets need to be planned and thought out to make sure all bases are covered. It's just commonsense!

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Mountaineer
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I was reading the other day that boxing legend Mike Tyson is a vegan and has been for several years...

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