Karma

Is karma and reincarnation compatible with Christianity? Do you have the right thread? I would have thought that this OP would be better placed under the Buddhism category - unless you are addressing these questions to Christians....?

Is karma and reincarnation compatible with Christianity? Do you have the right thread? I would have thought that this OP would be better placed under the Buddhism category - unless you are addressing these questions to Christians....?

Hi
there and thanks for the reply, I am addressing this to any person that reads it whether they class themselves as Christian or what ever religion or following, life after death does not apply to a few, it applies to everyone, as does karma.

I can believe it would upset the Christian cult to accept life after death, as it would interfere with their teachings that have been around since the murder of Jesus!.

I believe myself to be a Christian, I believe in the Trinity, I also have studied a lot of the forunners including Buddha, I find a lot of their teachings distorted, but this thread is not about that it is about karma, I do not believe everyone has the truth, they all think they have though.

That's why there are so many religions and beliefs, there is only one God, therefore I believe there should be one religion that leads to the knowledge of God.

It is not what people believe but it is What Is Truth that counts, and that doesn't fall in with the Christian beliefs either, I believe Jesus said that what I give you now is only a part of the knowledge, and when the "Son Of Man" comes He will give us in full,(I find this hard that he was referring to himself),

Peace and light
Peter

Hi PJ7

Years ago I would have believed in the mainstream view of Karma. ‘We reap what we sow’ kinda thing, a ‘come back and get it right’. But at the time I think it was really more of a go with the flow of the masses until I began to find my own way to what Karma meant or if Karma really existed?.That Karma provides no evidence.

Over time I began an internal dialogue and found myself questioning Karma. I came to the conclusion Karma didn't exist purely because I have not experienced or known first hand of what Karma seemed to present. or simply to me just doesn't exist!

In turn coming to the conclusion that the choices we make in life now affect the outcome before us now, but we still have the choice to change the outcome.

In the case of ‘been here before’ well similar to Karma, coming to the conclusion that previous incarnations don’t exist. Of course there is always the usual argument that neither can I prove previous incarnations didn’t exist!.

I don’t know how I came to believe but I do believe that if there were reincarnations that they are all happening now. Not linear but in a sense of a parallel dimension.

The way I would explain this is by being in a large hall with many other people and children filling the hall, I look to just one other person before me and say:

” Consider reincarnation happening all at the same time, how would we know as to where these other lives of ours are?, well for a moment visualize ourselves within a ring and as this happens quite powerfully it seems all background noises begin to fade and mumble. I may then whisper “Do you hear the many mumbling and chatting of voices around us? Well consider are these our other lives, living now, at this moment? Listen to our other selves, watching how our other selves interact with all of our other selves”. Quite a surreal experience.

With this thought in mind there is something to be said about ‘Treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, to love your enemies, to forgive etc which raises the thought that how we treat others could actually be returning back to ourselves to our lives all happening at once now.

For consideration maybe this reply I shared is in some way rebounding through all our other lives living all at the same time right at this instant. Triggering instant cause and effect retuning in some way back to myself as I live now. ( mmm? the thought of ' what a man thinketh is what he becomes?:))

I suppose in the Karma sense each choice, decision and act we make instantly rebounds through all our other lives which may instantly alter the paths to our other lives.
A constant cause and effect happening all at the same time. ‘From one thought many thoughts are born’ Not a clue how I came to settle with these views but to me they certainly do resonate within.

By the way I was a Christian, brought up in a strong Christian family, but no longer class myself as a Christian. 🙂 but I felt the Karma and reincarnation question was one to share my view on.

Nice Topic PJ7 :nature-smiley-008:

Sacrel

There are still there and get a gun and I

Hi PJ7

Years ago I would have believed in the mainstream view of Karma. ‘We reap what we sow’ kinda thing, a ‘come back and get it right’. But at the time I think it was really more of a go with the flow of the masses until I began to find my own way to what Karma meant or if Karma really existed?.That Karma provides no evidence.

Over time I began an internal dialogue and found myself questioning Karma. I came to the conclusion Karma didn’t exist purely because I have not experienced or known first hand of what Karma seemed to present.

In turn coming to the conclusion that the choices we make in life now affect the outcome before us now, but we still have the choice to change the outcome.

In the case of ‘been here before’ well similar to Karma, coming to the conclusion that previous incarnations don’t exist. Of course there is always the usual argument that neither can I prove previous incarnations didn’t exist!.

I don’t know how I came to believe but I do believe that if there were reincarnations that they are all happening now. Not linear but in a sense of a parallel dimension.

The way I would explain this is by being in a large hall with many other people and children filling the hall, I look to just one other person before me and say” Consider reincarnation happening all at the same time, how would we know as to where these other lives of ours are?, well for a moment visualize ourselves within a ring and as this happens quite powerfully it seems all background noises begin to fade and mumble. I may then whisper “Do you hear the many mumbling and chatting of voices around us? Well consider are these our other lives, living now, at this moment? Listen to our other selves, watching how our other selves interact with all of our other selves”. Quite a surreal experience.

With this thought in mind there is something to be said about ‘Treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, to love your enemies, to forgive etc which raises the thought that how we treat others could actually be returning back to ourselves to our lives all happening at once now. For consideration maybe this reply I shared is in some way rebounding through all our other lives living all at the same time right at this instant. Triggering instant cause and effect retuning in some way back to myself. ( mmm? the thought of ' what a man thinketh is what he becomes?:))

I suppose in the Karma sense each choice, decision and act we make instantly rebounds through all our other lives which may instantly alter the paths to our other lives.
A constant cause and effect happening all at the same time. ‘From one thought many thoughts are born’ Not a clue how I came to settle with these views but to me they certainly do resonate within.

By the way I was a Christian, brought up in a strong Christian family, but no longer class myself as a Christian. 🙂 but I felt the Karma and reincarnation question was one to share my view on.

Sacrel

Hi

If you were to have a jigsaw puzzle with 1000 pieces and you were only given one piece and are asked to form the picture, I do not believe the image in your mind would relate to the picture on the box.
I believe this is the same as the knowledge of creation people form their opinions on what they believe is right, with the intellect which is formed in the front brain, both brains should be equal proportion, but we have over cultivated the frontal brain and made ourselves as rulers.

Being a Christian does not make the knowledge truth, as they are far from the truth and only I believe teach what they are taught!
We do reap what we sow irrespective of what people think or believe, if you sow Thistle you'd get Thistle, if you sow corn you get corn, if you sow love you get love, if you sow hate you get hate!

This is one of the laws of Creation is of reaping and sowing, you don't have to believe it it does not change the fact that it does exist.

You experience it constantly even though you don't accept it with the intellect!

You talk of the choices in life that you make now, these are the choices made now that prepare the next level in creation for where you are to go and experience, what a different place in the world would be if there were more believers.

As with previous incarnations, we have been here many times as with Karma just because you do not have proof does not mean it did not happen or still does!
You need the full picture to accept and not many people have it!

It is only the brain that needs proof, intellect!

Surely you do not think that all this on planet Earth is just for the one incarnation, which is taught I assume by many of the religious cults, as again I have said it before if the truth was accepted it would interfere with the churches teachings.

Threads of Karma do not necessarily return during the one Earth life, but maybe return in further incarnations, but they do return, we do reap what we sow!

I have one question for you I would love an answer why do you think we are here? Or how do you think we came to be here, yes I accept evolution but that does not answer the question!

Peace and light
Peter

No, I don't believe in karma. I think your questions are very interesting, but I don't feel happy answering them in "Christianity". I'd gladly join in if they were posted in " General Religions".

Hi PJ7

Surely you do not think that all this on planet Earth is just for the one incarnation,

I believe that no one can ever be sure of that which we are not sure about,
I cannot be sure there are other incarnations any more than I can a single incarnation. If I had to explore this question I would chose a belief that we have one incarnation with no ending. I would consider that an ending comes to all parallel lives when we come to realize that we have not really separated from some kind of a source, god etc. that once the last judgement has been made, the last thought shared we awaken back to whence we came.

I have one question for you I would love an answer why do you think we are here?
why are we here? I don’t know! Is anything I believe correct? I don’t know! Is there a god? I don’t know! is the god we know a god that we created? Because we wanted one?.

The answer to this question I believe could not be answered without knowing all that is, but can be explored. because in my view we have not encountered anything that could answer our questions.
If we did encounter something, I believe within human nature there is always an element of doubt to that belief within;with no frame of reference to validate against. while we live within this world there can never be any answer to satisfy humanities hunger to why we are here.

But above all I believe there is a 'something known' yet unable to be proven, unexplainable, without satisfactory answers to fill the hunger humanity seeks, that in the end somehow seems........Right.:)

Hi PJ,

Ok, let's start with your original question...

There must be some people here who believe in karma, what does the average person believe in karma and how does it manifest in their eyes, do people think that karma is just from this one life, should I say from this incarnation or does it come from previous incarnations, if you believe we have been here before.

Well, I can see why people can be confused with you asking a question about Karma in the Christianity forum, as it is typically associated with Buddhism, but if we consider that Karma is a Sanskrit word originating from the ancient philosophies from which the philosophies of Hinduism, Buddhism and pretty much all mainstream religions are based (though some would like to believe otherwise) then it's perfectly acceptable to ask it in any of the religious, spiritual or philosophical forums.

Not sure what you mean by an "average person", but I'll assume you are just asking what people other than yourself understand or believe about Karma.... so here's my understanding...

By definition, karma is the concept of cause and effect, so we cannot say that it doesn't exist, whether considered scientifically or otherwise. So that leaves us with, essentially, two concepts of karma to examine... 1) does karma exist in the sense of "do something bad and it will come back on you later" and 2) does karma exist through reincarnation (assuming reincarnation exists).

1) It's certainly fair to say that if we carry out an action, there will be some effect (by definition of karma), but does that 'effect' come back on ourselves. There's two ways we can look at this... one is that 'we are all one' so by our actions we will definitely be effecting ourselves in some way or the other is that, even if we consider ourselves separate and we, for example, do something horrible to someone else, no matter how much we would try and convince ourselves that our actions will not have an effect to 'come back on us', our true Self will hold the knowledge of our actions and without true awareness of the present, it would cause the mind to create fear of the future based on those actions, which in itself would cause karmic re-action back on us, or attract those who attach to such fears causing them to do something in return.

2) If people don't believe in reincarnation then it doesn't matter. The 'energy pattern' that is created by actions will exist in the universe even after the current incarnation of a person. Whether that person incarnates again or not, that energy pattern will be around until it is transformed by interacting with other energy patterns. So, if you believe in reincarnation, there's every possibility (especially if you believe in a connection to your past lives) that you will have attachment to that previous energy pattern and it will effect you in the current incarnation. If you don't believe in reincarnation, there's still the chance that you will be effected by the energy patterns created in the past as they exist in the present, and perhaps that's why some people believe they are just 'unlucky' or 'lucky' or whatever. 😉

Hi
This is one of the laws of Creation is of reaping and sowing, you don't have to believe it it does not change the fact that it does exist.

Well, it's a law of science, or a law of other philosophies or models or whatever. It doesn't have to be limited to just the concept of 'creationism'. There's no point in limiting the concept of cause and effect to just one belief system... as that achieves nothing additional to the basic concept itself.

You experience it constantly even though you don't accept it with the intellect!

You talk of the choices in life that you make now, these are the choices made now that prepare the next level in creation for where you are to go and experience, what a different place in the world would be if there were more believers.

And what a different place the world would be if there were more non-believers. Surely that's just stating the obvious... i.e. if things were different then things would be different. 😉

As with previous incarnations, we have been here many times as with Karma just because you do not have proof does not mean it did not happen or still does!
You need the full picture to accept and not many people have it!

It is only the brain that needs proof, intellect!

Using the argument "Just because you do not have proof doesn't mean it doesn't happen" to try and support the statement of fact you make that reincarnation exists, is a flawed argument. The fact that there's no proof, means that there's no proof either way. Reincarnation may or may not exist and nobody can state it to be fact or otherwise. Each are entitled to their own opinion without being told that they don't have the full picture as if you somehow do. It does come across as somewhat condescending to suggest otherwise.

Surely you do not think that all this on planet Earth is just for the one incarnation, which is taught I assume by many of the religious cults, as again I have said it before if the truth was accepted it would interfere with the churches teachings.

Regardless of teachings or churches... there's no proof for or against. There's just as much possibility that we are only here for the one incarnation, otherwise what would be the purpose of procreation and continuing the species... passing on DNA/genes and sharing knowledge and skills and understanding to our children? You see it can work both ways. 😉

Threads of Karma do not necessarily return during the one Earth life, but maybe return in further incarnations, but they do return, we do reap what we sow!

I have one question for you I would love an answer why do you think we are here? Or how do you think we came to be here, yes I accept evolution but that does not answer the question!

Why doesn't it answer the question? Why indeed does there have to be a purpose except to aim to live for as long as possible and continue our species on this planet? It may be as simple as that or it may not be? It is people who have searched for an answer to that question that has been the reason why philosophies and religions have come about whether it's the belief in goddess nature, the sun god, the greek gods, the one Christian god, or no gods at all etc. To me, that question has no basis for answering the original question of Karma and reincarnation... unless of course you would like to expand on your own understanding. 🙂

All Love and Reiki Hugs

During my awakening period I entered a time of sadness . I couldn't put my finger on why there was such sadness . My life was no different as they say and there was no reason that I could relate such sadness too .

This sadness had along with a feeling that I was not worthy of happiness drew me further into myself .

At a point I became aware of certain memories and visions had that were of a past life and I witnessed terrible sufferings . It was 'I' that inflicted such sufferings . I was shocked and in tears that 'I' was responsible for such acts even though it was in another time and place .

This discovery opened up the floodgates for many issues that were energetically connected to my individual self across many lifetimes .

So in regards to Karma my experiences had made me realize that whatever you do that is of this lifetime or of another is held energetically within self .

One is not always aware of the whole self or the complete self or whatever words suits .

The sadness reflected an aspect of self that needed to resolve / heal / forgive such expressions / actions .

Some may relate the sadness had as karmically tied .

I say my actions caused an effect, the effect was of sufferings I endured through the sufferings I inflicted upon others .

Do the math . lol .

x dazzle x

Well, I can see why people can be confused with you asking a question about Karma in the Christianity forum, as it is typically associated with Buddhism, but if we consider that Karma is a Sanskrit word originating from the ancient philosophies from which the philosophies of Hinduism, Buddhism and pretty much all mainstream religions are based (though some would like to believe otherwise) then it's perfectly acceptable to ask it in any of the religious, spiritual or philosophical forums.

I can understand this as a reason for putting it into ‘general’, not for putting it into ‘Christianity’. The question itself may be okay here, but the answers may not. Karma is part of Hinduism, co-opted by Buddhism. If it is acceptable in “all mainstream religions” as you say, that is only because people twist the word to suit themselves and their own beliefs. If all PJ7 wants is a general “reap what you sow” answer, then okay – it can be in Christianity as well as anywhere. But an in-depth answer from anyone not in a “mainstream religion” belongs elsewhere.

I'm with you 100% Peter.

What goes around comes around!

If you can't take the karma, don't cause the drama!

And why shouldn't the question be in the Christianity section? Does the Bible not say 'Be not deceived, God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap'.
That sounds to me like a pretty straight up rendition of cause and effect.

Spiritual law doesn't change. Every world teacher, Jesus Christ, the Buddha, Krishna or whoever, merely puts their own unique stamp on the same unchangeable spiritual law.

What goes around comes around!
If you can't take the karma, don't cause the drama!

I would also agree with this. but would only apply it to the life with live today. A choice we make, an action we take, affects the future ahead of us 'in the life we have now'.

cause: commit a crime - effect: go to jail',both cause and effect in this one life.
If we had future lives I find it difficult to believe how the 'jail example' could affect it?

If we find ourselves in circumstances where we had to deal with something or face something not expected or decided by our own choice. I would consider this to be circumstantial.and that we don't have a choice what type of family we are born into yet we grow in that family and become conditioned by the environment we are brought up in.

A child conditioned to a drug taking environment may well take a similar path in order to find a way to survive and live, not always by choice but to live by what he knows. Not that Karma has placed him in this position.

Could the creation of the word Karma be an excuse to escape? a reason to label an undesired position one finds themselves at in life? A denial of negative events a person finds themselves in? a reason to say " Its not my fault I acted this way, or Its a wonderful place I am blessed , I had a bad accident, I am homeless, I cannot change!,it must be Karma? I must deserve this or blessed with?

Could believing too strongly in Karma may affect ones ability to live their life right now? Believing things mights happen because their mind told them in a past life they were bad in some way? Unable to step out of the door due to the fear experienced! Could Karma even be a form of Spiritual control?

It is interesting such variations on Karma:)

I can understand this as a reason for putting it into ‘general’, not for putting it into ‘Christianity’. The question itself may be okay here, but the answers may not. Karma is part of Hinduism, co-opted by Buddhism. If it is acceptable in “all mainstream religions” as you say, that is only because people twist the word to suit themselves and their own beliefs. If all PJ7 wants is a general “reap what you sow” answer, then okay – it can be in Christianity as well as anywhere. But an in-depth answer from anyone not in a “mainstream religion” belongs elsewhere.

I totally agree with you Crowan and feel that it should be in either Interfaith or General Faiths. Actually though, some of the replies would have been better on the Awakening thread! Karma is not a Christian term.

From AskOxford:

Definition of karma

(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person’s actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.
informal good or bad luck, viewed as resulting from one’s actions.

Reincarnation is not part of the teachings of either Judaism or Christianity.

Love and peace,

Judy

Ok, ok, I'm hearin' ya! 😉

As PJ hasn't come back to give any reason why it should be in the Christianity forum (not that I could tell anyway), I've now moved this thread to the General-Faiths forum, and left a redirection from the Christianity forum which will remain there for a week.

Are we all happy now? 😀

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Hi

That's why there are so many religions and beliefs, there is only one God, therefore I believe there should be one religion that leads to the knowledge of God.

It is not what people believe but it is What Is Truth that counts, and that doesn't fall in with the Christian beliefs either, I believe Jesus said that what I give you now is only a part of the knowledge, and when the "Son Of Man" comes He will give us in full,(I find this hard that he was referring to himself),

Peace and light
Peter

I beleive 'all paths honestly followed lead to God' so Mulsims, Jews, Christinas.pagans, etc who are followign their chosen path honestly with good intent will be doing Gods work, and fulfilling their place in the universal plan.

But what is 'truth' Truth is NOT fixed. Our view of the world is filtered thorugh our perceptions, life experience etc. Someone can remember an event one way - and someone else will remember it totally differently . and neither is lying.

Truth is experiential

Could believing too strongly in Karma may affect ones ability to live their life right now?

Or you could argue belief in karma encourages people to live their life right!

I beleive 'all paths honestly followed lead to God' so Mulsims, Jews, Christinas.pagans, etc who are followign their chosen path honestly with good intent will be doing Gods work, and fulfilling their place in the universal plan.

But what is 'truth' Truth is NOT fixed. Our view of the world is filtered thorugh our perceptions, life experience etc. Someone can remember an event one way - and someone else will remember it totally differently . and neither is lying.

Truth is experiential

Quite right, there's only one God.

When you break it down and clear away all the dross you come to realise that all the great teachers taught the same message - love of God and one's fellow man, treating others as you yourself would want to be treated, non-violence and so forth.

Truth is all things to all people, according to their understanding, but no matter how you see it, if kindness is your guide through this earthly life, you're on the right track.

I beleive 'all paths honestly followed lead to God' so Mulsims, Jews, Christinas.pagans, etc who are followign their chosen path honestly with good intent will be doing Gods work, and fulfilling their place in the universal plan.

I so agree Tashanie - but not just religious people, but everyone who in their own way seeks to connect with who they really are, seeks for Truth.

But what is 'truth' Truth is NOT fixed. Our view of the world is filtered thorugh our perceptions, life experience etc. Someone can remember an event one way - and someone else will remember it totally differently . and neither is lying.

Truth is experiential

You are speaking about our human concept of truth, which is indeed experiential, but I personally believe that there can only be ONE universal Truth, which is divine, not human. In fact, Truth is a synonym for what I consider God to be - a divine Principle of Life, Truth, Love and Spirit (among other qualities)

Mary Baker Eddy wrote the words below with God as the first word, but if I substitute Truth, it works just as well:

[Truth]
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

But I also believe Jesus when he said “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32) – he understood the universal laws of the universe and was able to demonstrate his complete control over all the limitations of matter and mortal beliefs. Others who have understood these laws have also been able to prove them, though mostty to a lesser extent.

A friend wrote this description of absolute truth and I really couldn't put it any better. I have his permission to share it:

I think that there is an absolute truth, and I believe that absolute truth is God, good. I also follow a religious walk devoted to discerning, uncovering, and even demonstrating that Truth (with a capital "T") in healing. However, I genuinely respect the spiritual walk that others are taking in their own search for Truth, and I have found that I can learn from believers of other faiths and of none, as well as from literature and art.

I also respect those who conscientiously believe that there is no absolute truth, and I share their concerns about the attitudes of absolutists who are dogmatic in preaching that only their way has any truth to it. I don't think that the problem is with Truth being absolute, though. I think the problem arises when a denomination thinks it IS that Truth - rather than being a lens through which that Truth can be viewed - or that it has a monopoly on Truth.

Truth, to be Truth, has to be universal. Can you imagine if the laws of gravity applied only in one location? Or if you were only able to benefit from them if you happen to be a paid-up member of a particular gravity-believers club? Gravity-believers might feel that they can do a better job of harnessing the laws of gravity in their own lives and for the common good, because they are more focused on understanding those laws and are in discussion with others who have already proved their many wonderful applications. They can never, however, have more access to those laws than other believers or even non-believers.

So it is, I feel, with God's goodness. It is available impartially for all and it can, and does, work through all people - whatever denominational label we wear, or even if we shun all such labels, or consider ourselves humanists, agnostics, and atheists.

Tony Lobl

Love and peace,

Judy

Ok, ok, I'm hearin' ya! 😉

As PJ hasn't come back to give any reason why it should be in the Christianity forum (not that I could tell anyway), I've now moved this thread to the General-Faiths forum, and left a redirection from the Christianity forum which will remain there for a week.

Are we all happy now? 😀

Hopefully! 😉 I would think more people would feel comfortable about it being in a more inclusive area. Thanks Giles!

I totally agree with you Crowan and feel that it should be in either Interfaith or General Faiths. Actually though, some of the replies would have been better on the Awakening thread! Karma is not a Christian term.

From AskOxford:

Definition of karma

(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person’s actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.
informal good or bad luck, viewed as resulting from one’s actions.

Reincarnation is not part of the teachings of either Judaism or Christianity.

Love and peace,

Judy

Karma is just another name for Cause and Effect.

Jesus's 'As ye sow, so shall ye reap' is the Law of Cause and Effect in a different form.

'Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God and he shall go no more out...'

Makes a lot more sense than eternal damnation!

I beleive 'all paths honestly followed lead to God' so Mulsims, Jews, Christinas.pagans, etc who are followign their chosen path honestly with good intent will be doing Gods work, and fulfilling their place in the universal plan.

I do hope that you can see how patronising and insulting this is to those of us who do not believe in your "God" - or indeed a "universal plan".

I'm not sure you can say it's patronising when Sally clearly said it was her "belief". People are entitled to their beliefs and no offence needs be taken by them.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Please let me recommend "No time for karma". You can get it Kimble.

It will knock your socks off :-)))))))

But to answer the question...in the USA, most people believe karma means "what goes around comes around". Possitive and negitive...either way.

And if someone is mean...we say that's OK, they will get theirs.

Karma is just another name for Cause and Effect.

Jesus's 'As ye sow, so shall ye reap' is the Law of Cause and Effect in a different form.

'Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God and he shall go no more out...'

As with the AskOxford definition, yes, the meaning has been corrupted (well, watered-down) during the past few decades into what they term the "informal" definition. After an English dictionary, here's an American one and you'll see that they too give the original Sanskrit meaning. [url]Karma - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary[/url] Scroll down to the Concise Encyclopedia definition for a fuller explanation.

Makes a lot more sense than eternal damnation!

Yikes I agree! :eeeK: I certainly don't believe in eternal damnation. God is Love. It's sin/evil/wrong thinking - whatever you want to call it - that punishes itself. Love blesses, never punishes.

Love and peace,

Judy

I'm not sure you can say it's patronising when Sally clearly said it was her "belief". People are entitled to their beliefs and no offence needs be taken by them.

That is why I expressed my point of view in the way I did. Everything on HP is ‘belief’. When Mountaineer writes:

Quite right, there's only one God.

That is also only his opinion. However, I’m pretty sure that Sally thought she was writing something that could not be argued with – I just wanted to point out that this is not so. There is often an assumption on HP that we all, deep down, have the same views. It isn’t so, but that is probably more obvious to those of us outside the mainstream than it is to those inside it.

I also hope that, when Mountaineer writes,

When you break it down and clear away all the dross you come to realise that all the great teachers taught the same message - love of God and one's fellow man, treating others as you yourself would want to be treated, non-violence and so forth.

he realises that he may have a completely different idea of what “dross” is than other people have.
And again:

I beleive 'all paths honestly followed lead to God' so Mulsims, Jews, Christinas.pagans, etc who are followign their chosen path honestly with good intent will be doing Gods work, and fulfilling their place in the universal plan.

But what is 'truth' Truth is NOT fixed. Our view of the world is filtered thorugh our perceptions, life experience etc. Someone can remember an event one way - and someone else will remember it totally differently . and neither is lying.
Truth is experiential

, if truth is not fixed, then “all paths honestly followed lead to God” is also not fixed. You can’t have it both ways.

This idea that “everyone is on the same path, really” (or at least, heading for the same destination) is a diminishing of all religions, in the same way that

Karma is just another name for Cause and Effect.

Jesus's 'As ye sow, so shall ye reap' is the Law of Cause and Effect in a different form

diminishes both Karma and Jesus’ words. It also allows us to stay in our cosy comfort zone where everything is “for the best” and we can talk about karma while ignoring the nastier implications of the Hindu/Buddhist original.

Hi Jane,

I’m pretty sure that Sally thought she was writing something that could not be argued with

I personally doubt that. I certainly didn't read it that way myself.

I just wanted to point out that this is not so. There is often an assumption on HP that we all, deep down, have the same views. It isn’t so, but that is probably more obvious to those of us outside the mainstream than it is to those inside it.

Oh yes. 🙂 There's certainly people here who do think we're all of the same beliefs and understanding, but those of us who've been around a while I'm guessing will clearly recognise that that is not the case. Perhaps fairer to say that we all aim towards the same goal, of being helpful and kind to others, and sharing our knowledge from our own perspectives.

I also hope that, when Mountaineer writes,he realises that he may have a completely different idea of what “dross” is than other people have.
And again: , if truth is not fixed, then “all paths honestly followed lead to God” is also not fixed. You can’t have it both ways.

Indeed. I don't do the 'God' thing myself... well not in the way that people perceive God to be some seperate entity from ourselves... but that's my belief and I'm recognising people are speaking from their own, so I don't feel the need to challenege it as part of this discussion, as it's interesting to see all the different views.

This idea that “everyone is on the same path, really” (or at least, heading for the same destination) is a diminishing of all religions, in the same way that
diminishes both Karma and Jesus’ words. It also allows us to stay in our cosy comfort zone where everything is “for the best” and we can talk about karma while ignoring the nastier implications of the Hindu/Buddhist original.

Agreed. People are all following their own way in life... some hung up in their restrictions, others being more open and accepting; some feeling stuck and going nowhere whilst others feeling they are progressing in life in leaps and bounds.
I don't necessarily agree with the concept of Samsara whereby we reincarnate at different levels, and if we are 'bad' we'll come back as animals, and if we are 'good' we can come back as some sort of lesser god(s), and the buddhist idea behind this that we can only reach enlightenment through our human incarnation(s) (what with animals being too 'bad' and gods being too full of themselves - that's how it was explained to me by my buddhist teacher hehe!); However I can understand the concept of reincarnation and the fact that this will continue on until we do reach a state of enlightenment, and how karmic energy can continue on from one incarnation to the next. It's a bit like saying that the universe is chaotic, with pockets of calm and pockets of high energy, but ultimately everything will reach a state of balance... at least from the scientific point of view.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

I do hope that you can see how patronising and insulting this is to those of us who do not believe in your "God" - or indeed a "universal plan".

Ahhhh, don't be insulted. The world is changing. Soon there will be more people self identified as "spiritual but not religious" than self identified with a religion.

I have actually been trying to find a religion to identify with. The closest thing I've found is Taoist. And wow that's all about karma.

The discussion about karma is so complex that I recommended a book instead of joining in. But if I could simplify my belief...

Learning in a new life what is needed to help you overcome the mistakes/wrongdoings of a previous life (spiritual growth through reincarnation).

Earth is a school and we sign up for classes. Each life is a class.

No one is injured on planet earth. It's just a place to come to learn. We sign the release forms, hop into a body and take it for a ride.

Check out: "No time for karma". If you are interested in karma this will be an enjoyable experience.

[COLOR="Indigo"]PS...I believe most people on HP are in flux; meaning that while they believe what they believe "NOW", they are also influenced by the responses to their posts and the posts of others. So have mercy on people's beliefs...if people are here and participate openly...change, fluctuations and growth will take place in all the participants.

As with the AskOxford definition, yes, the meaning has been corrupted (well, watered-down) during the past few decades into what they term the "informal" definition. After an English dictionary, here's an American one and you'll see that they too give the original Sanskrit meaning. [url]Karma - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary[/url] Scroll down to the Concise Encyclopedia definition for a fuller explanation.

Yikes I agree! :eeeK: I certainly don't believe in eternal damnation. God is Love. It's sin/evil/wrong thinking - whatever you want to call it - that punishes itself. Love blesses, never punishes.

Love and peace,

Judy

I don't need a dictionary to define the meaning. The meaning is clear. We reap what we sow. Cause and effect. Action and reaction. Deed and consequence.

'Love blesses, never punishes'. No and nor does it need to, because the law is self-regulating

When Mountaineer writes: That is also only his opinion. However, I’m pretty sure that Sally thought she was writing something that could not be argued with – I just wanted to point out that this is not so. There is often an assumption on HP that we all, deep down, have the same views. It isn’t so, but that is probably more obvious to those of us outside the mainstream than it is to those inside it.

I also hope that, when Mountaineer writes, he realises that he may have a completely different idea of what “dross” is than other people have.

This idea that “everyone is on the same path, really” (or at least, heading for the same destination) is a diminishing of all religions, in the same way that diminishes both Karma and Jesus’ words. It also allows us to stay in our cosy comfort zone where everything is “for the best” and we can talk about karma while ignoring the nastier implications of the Hindu/Buddhist original

That was entirely my point! God is all things to all people. An old man in the sky, a spirit, love, even a collective!

By 'dross' I meant all the self-promoting, self-important pretence of orthodox religion which is all about given themselves power and position and nothing to do with progress of the soul.

All religions of the light ARE on the same path - Love, brotherhood, helping others, kindness, non-violence...

As for sowing and reaping. Why the fuss?
If one is leading a decent life, the prospect of reaping what you've sown...bring it on!
If the prospect of reaping what one has sown is making one uneasy, maybe one should be a bit more careful about what one is sowing....

Sounds like perfect justice to me!!!!

That was entirely my point! God is all things to all people. An old man in the sky, a spirit, love, even a collective!

So, if I say that the overall god is Odin, that’s okay by you? Or Innana? Or Zeus? In that case we might as well give up discussion. It seems to me that you are simply co-opting others’ beliefs and stitching them into yours.

By 'dross' I meant all the self-promoting, self-important pretence of orthodox religion which is all about given themselves power and position and nothing to do with progress of the soul.

I’d still be amazed if 100% of the global population defined “dross in religions” in that way.

All religions of the light ARE on the same path - Love, brotherhood, helping others, kindness, non-violence...

Now you’ve changed your argument, from “all religions” to “all religions of the light”.

As for sowing and reaping. Why the fuss?

If one is leading a decent life, the prospect of reaping what you've sown...bring it on!
If the prospect of reaping what one has sown is making one uneasy, maybe one should be a bit more careful about what one is sowing....
Sounds like perfect justice to me!!!!

Again, you are making huge assumptions if you can only think of fear as a reason for rejecting your ideas. My reason for rejecting them is that in years of talking with those in the Land of the Dead and with my Spirit Teachers, I have not only never come across any evidence of karma but I have also been told and seen evidence that karma does not exist.