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ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!


bucket
Posts: 1
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(@bucket)
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Joined: 16 years ago

I fo you are a vegetarian I understand that It just means that you don't eat meat.

What is the difference beteween eating and wearing an animal apart from the obvious.

An animal still has to be killed.

So if you wear leather shoes an animal has to be killed.
If you use postage stamps an animal has to be killed.
If you have leather seats in your car an animal has to be killed.
If You use ebvelopes an animal has to be killed.

Please post back with your comments

23 Replies
The Red Dragon
Posts: 321
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Joined: 17 years ago

RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Bucket,

Firstly can I say that your post comes across as slightly antagonistic, and will probably not be taken that well on this particular forum as we prefer to discuss/ debate issues in a more repectful manner,

Your question is however a good one and something which I have discussed many times with vegetarian/ non-vegetarian friends, I am not vegetarian, I have wrestled with the idea for a while but prefer to continue to purchase meat from local suppliers.

I am however more than aware that many of the products that we surround ourselves with are produced using an animal byproduct and so therefore could easily be accused of being a hypicrite.

I think that most vegetarians would agree that you simply have to do the best you can, i.e. if you don't eat meat and try to buy products produced without animal byproducts then this has got to be better than buying factory farmed GM food and products using animal byproducts.

I think that part of the issue here is that being vegetarian can be a kind of buzz word, without people being aware of the wider picture, I would agree that a vegetarian who has no concience regarding the use of animal byproducts is unable to hold the moral ground over somebody who eats meat.

I hope these are the comments you were looking for

SaffronXX

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activehealing
Posts: 578
(@activehealing)
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Joined: 16 years ago

RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely, I am vegan and do not wear any animal clothes. I don't have a car and I go out of my way to avoid animal byproducts (or testing) in products such as shampoo and conditioner and household cleaning products.

I think most vegetarians and vegans have a common sense approach and will avoid animal products to the best of their knowledge and ability. If they accidentally buy something with an animal by product in, I don't think they should be made to feel bad or beat themselves up about it as they are doing the best they can.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the intention behind your post?

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Publisher
Posts: 527
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Joined: 17 years ago

RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi everyone,

I am still a meat eater. I was about to say 'unfortunately, butthat would be pretentious since I have made no efforts to convert. I went to a fair in Kent a few weeks ago and ate Jamacan vegan food, it was simply fabulous - wow. And I suppose I could convert, but I am lazy. I like cooking and like to experiment, but have never been inclined to move away from meat. I respect all animals and have a great affinity for the Indian tribes of North America, who use to thank the beasts that they killed to support them. But I think that I would have to go on a course and 'learn' new styles of cooking - like the Jamacan experience I had - so when I move to Brighton in 4 weeks time I'll see what is available. I'll keep you all posted ๐Ÿ˜€

Best wishes
Publisher [sm=wave.gif]

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songstress
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was vegetarian for about five years, but the diet didn't suit me. However, I am mindful of animals and their welfare, and always choose products that haven't been tested on animals.

There is no need for antagonistic behaviour towards folks who have different views and lifestyles. What suits one person may not suit another,and that should be no excuse to 'have a go' at people.

Patsy.
[:-]

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calmintentions
Posts: 585
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Joined: 17 years ago

RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think that the assumption here is that the vegetarians that bucket is talking to are the ones who 'assume the moral high ground' and treat meat eaters as 'lesser beings'. if so, i can understand the antagonism! however, many vegetarians are making a dietary choice rather than a moral one. IMO, as always, we make our own choices according to our paths and allow others the freedom to do the same.

'a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still'!

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Moonfairy
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

And bucket [sm=nono.gif]it's rude to SHOUT!It's very antagonistic -you won't end up with the replies you seek.

Best wishes
Moonfairy

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activehealing
Posts: 578
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Bucket wishes to address his post to this specific group of vegatarians, perhaps he should seek them out instead of posting here.

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Antari
Posts: 248
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Joined: 19 years ago

RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heard it all before! I am Vegan and do my best not to cause any suffering to any living being. I just quietly go on my way as peacefully as I can but don't preach to others.

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fairyfoot
Posts: 41
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Joined: 16 years ago

RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bucket

I like most people (who may be vegetarian or not)do as much as my conscience allows and no more and thatI am proud of. I see that this is you first thread, quitean impact on your first attempt.

Be kind to yourself..................and others!

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Sherringham
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bucket, you just come across as antagonisitic, and seemingly not interested in the replies either.
I am a veggie of 13 years standing, I have fabric seats in my car, I do wear leather shoes yes, but keep them until worn out, postage stamps I take it you mean the glue, well there are no options. Make up I buy is definitely not tested on animals. YesI did have cataracts removed a year ago, I can only guess and thank the poor animals who suffered for the anaesthetic drops and other medication, and for the procedure itself, but is blindness by choice an option? I don't colour or useany chemical process on my hair, and try to ensure all the shampoos etc are not animal tested.

Incidentally are you veggie? I guess not, just crass

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aroma
Posts: 177
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is the glue on the back of postage stamps and envelopes made from?
โ€ข THE GUM on British stamps is composed of polyvinyl alcohol and dextrin. The dextrin is derived from starch (e.g. potato) and the vinyl alcohol is a synthetic derived from petroleum. The gum used on ready-stamped stationery items is a blend of polyvinyl acetate and dextrin with the exception of aerogrammes, where the gum is a blend of polyvinyl acetate and polyvinyl alcohol. Slimmers may be interested to know that a single standard postage stamp contains 5.9 calories and Special or Commemorative stamps 14.5 calories. To avoid offending any religious groups or vegetarians, no animal products are involved.

Hope that helps :-)))

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Sherringham
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanx Aroma, it certainly does!!

But eeek 5.9 calories per stamp, THAT would explain it!!!

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Energylz
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does that still apply since they introduces the self-sticking stamps that you don't have to lick?

Hmmm... ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

Love and Reiki Hugs

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aroma
Posts: 177
(@aroma)
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

It would still apply yes!

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jonnyhotpants
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like it here someone comes in ranting really LOUD and everyone just calmly tries to reasure them. It's ok. Honest we wont hurt you. Please put that down and come away from the edge.
Nice folk. jono.

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jonjan
Posts: 23
(@jonjan)
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Joined: 16 years ago

RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

ORIGINAL: bucket

I fo you are a vegetarian I understand that It just means that you don't eat meat.

What is the difference beteween eating and wearing an animal apart from the obvious.

An animal still has to be killed.

So if you wear leather shoes an animal has to be killed.
If you use postage stamps an animal has to be killed.
If you have leather seats in your car an animal has to be killed.
If You use ebvelopes an animal has to be killed.

Please post back with your comments

Very good to be honest and accept all of reality.
Leather is animal skin, from animals who were slaughtered.
Some glue does contain ingredients that came from slaughtered animals.... but animals who were slaughtered primarily for meat.

Bottom line i think... think of 2 changes for good that have happened in society. think of any 2.
are they fixed perfectly now? or are they 'improved'?

they are likely improved, but not perfect.

now.... a quote:
"smart is the person who does something to help,
rather than nothing."

"Perfection is often not an option,
but Improvement almost always is"

I say let's support each other to be the best we can and to help as much as we can... and keep improving.
If you can reduce meat consumption, great. If you can eliminate meat from your diet, great. if you can eliminate all animal foods, great.... and on and on

Acknowledge anything that's true, and do as much as you can. Do it for 'helping', rather than for 'personal purity and perfection'.

Always focus on what you can do, and allow yourself to be imperfect while you continue to learn and grow ๐Ÿ™‚

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At One
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nobody needs to justify their lifestyle choices to others, and nobody needs to take the moral high ground over anyone else. We each do what is right for us and try our best to be true to what we believe.

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pauline
Posts: 686
(@pauline)
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing is, its all a matter of choice. I try not to wear leather, and that has nothing to do with whether I eat meat or not. What I mean by that is, how can you say, well when you eat a cow you might as well wear the skin. People do not need to cover themselves in leather just because a cow has been killed for people to eat meat.
Like, its dead anyway, we will wear the skin. Its all about choices not just for a person but where they live as well. There are no vegan health food shops in Lanarkshire, the nearest one to me is 20 miles away and its also far out of my price range.
I try and do as much as I can, I avoid products that have been animal tested and by that I mean the ingredients as well as the end products.
I buy some of my beauty products, toothpaste, perfume from Lush. I also try and do what I can for animals, I sponsor a manatee, a panda, a pot bellied pig and acat cabin but if anyone asked me, do I live a life that involves no suffering to animals the answer to that is no because it is very difficult not to, but I do what I can.
I have 3 cats and in saving them, they eat meat, not tons of it, but they do, so I would be stuck with the situation, do I leave them in the shelter possibly to be put down or do I bring them home and feed them a meat or fish based diet?
Dont pick holes in people who are doing their best but dont do 100% because its not very nice.
We could all just say whats the point, lets walk around eating large steaks and wearing leather and buying products that involve cruelty to animals because we cant go 100% the other way.
To me thats just plain daft.

Pauline

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jonjan
Posts: 23
(@jonjan)
Eminent Member
Joined: 16 years ago

RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

ORIGINAL: pauline

I also try and do what I can for animals, I sponsor a manatee, a panda, a pot bellied pig and acat cabin but if anyone asked me, do I live a life that involves no suffering to animals the answer to that is no because it is very difficult not to, but I do what I can.

I have 3 cats and in saving them, they eat meat, not tons of it, but they do, so I would be stuck with the situation, do I leave them in the shelter possibly to be put down or do I bring them home and feed them a meat or fish based diet?

that is fabulous sponsoring those animals ๐Ÿ™‚ Can you post some links to how it's done?

As for your feline dependents, there are animal-free cat (and dog) foods available. I knew a girl who was an A student in vet school and she was opposed to not feeding cats and dogs meat... but she said that physiologically, they have no need for animal products. Cats do need taurine, but she said that can easily be gotten from supplements.

here are a few sites, to find the brands of all-plant pet foods, and some that have online ordering (some of them have dog food too, for anybody looking for that)
[link= http://www.vegepet.com/forcats.html]http://www.vegepet.com/forcats.html[/link]
[link= http://www.vegancats.com/pages/1001/Ordering-Product_Info.htm]http://www.vegancats.com/pages/1001/Ordering-Product_Info.htm[/link]
[link= http://www.petfoodshop.com/index.cfm?id=273173&fuseaction=browse&pageid=36]http://www.petfoodshop.com/index.cfm?id=273173&fuseaction=browse&pageid=36[/link] (I used to work at a "pet" supply store and this brand, Evolution Diet, is a mainstream brand ๐Ÿ™‚ Since these are all-plant foods, they are also absent of any growth hormones or antibiotics that meat usually has.

If these foods aren't an option, then do considering learning about Iams (iamscruelty.com) and the testing they were having groups do (some dogs had their vocal cords cut so they couldn't bark, the conditions were terrible, one dog died and was bleeding from their mouth, :(shocking, i had no idea this could be real until i saw the undercover footage). I have the undercover videotape, and Iams corporate has admitted there were 'problems' (stopped working with the group doing that testing). I also learned from the vetrinarian-in-training that Iams had changed the ingredients in their foods, but without updating the ingredient list on the packages. That vet-in-training also said Iams is one of the worst foods, since it expands after being eaten and often causes bloating of the stomach and intestine.. and especially can cause discomfort and harm to small puppies, or small adult dogs. Other foods don't expand after being eaten, and don't have this issue. ๐Ÿ™‚ there is always a better option out there for us to choose ๐Ÿ™‚

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pauline
Posts: 686
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RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dont use Iams I know the issues

Pauline

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pauline
Posts: 686
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Joined: 16 years ago

RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was a bit short and sweet, my mum told me about Iams ages ago so I dont use them, I PM'd you as much info as I have about the sponsoring

Ta

Pauline

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Emzy1985
Posts: 27
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Joined: 15 years ago

RE: ALL YOU VEGGIES OUT THERE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I avoid everything that has been tested or comes from animals possible. I have faux leather shoes and jackets. I only use shampoo and toothpaste etc from vegan online stores or ones that are openly stating being vegan ie original source etc. (Herbal Essecenses tests on animals) I eat a completely vegan diet. However there are two things in my life which are unfortunately from animals. Firstly my car tyres. I have to drive a car for my job so this is unavoidable. I also use my car when I volunteer for the local cat sanctuary. The rubber from tyres uses slaughter byproducts. However after weighing up the pros and cons I decided to keep using my car. It seems I can do more good with it than without it which means it is the lesser of two evils. Secondly, I am quite heavily tattooed. Black tattoo ink CAN but always be derived from the carcoal of animal bones. Until about a week ago I did not know this. It's quite ironic really as most of my tattoos are related to animal rights in some way or another. However now I know this all my future tattoos will be done using vegan ink as you can request this (unfortunately at a higher cost....but not losing any design ability) from most tattoo shops before being inked. (Check out veganink.com)
So there you go! We are not all perfect. I don't think anyone is. Not everyone is wealthy...I know I'm not and I still manage to struggle by. I do it for myself and for the animals. Not for anyone else! This forum is here to help and guide people. And that is what we are doing!

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Tank2
Posts: 6
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Joined: 10 years ago

Technically one would have to agree about leather Bucket; being vegetarian isnt about perfection - it can be a huge step in the right direction for most people.

If you ook at the amount of suffering caused then buying leather shoes is akin to leaving your money in a bank that profits form an arms deal, you just cant buy that many shoes! Eating meat causes astronomically more suffering in general

Leather is hard to avoid but I manage. No leather is not a by-product - it can be rarely but its hard to be sure these days, cattle are raised and tortured in foul conditions for leather even in india of all places.

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