In order to learn something new? I guess this depends on why we each think we are here.

Well yes there is a point to that I would say Crowan .

What I am putting forward to W.S. is that is it necessary to apply or implement some new process to create a particular result .

Sure times change and all that jazz but somethings are timeless .

Self love is timeless .

There is nothing new about purifying one's self .

x daz x

Hi Daz

One isn't necessarily conscious to the feelings/energies attributed to one's actions so therefore attachment is not always a factor . One maybe oblivious to the sufferings of others due to one's actions made because one is operating in a reality where only their own selfish desires take president .

If there was no attachment then they would obviously not continue to pursue whatever is distracting them, they would allow whatever was unfolding within the now or present moment to become their focus and awareness.

To be free is simply to embrace and allow ourselves to be whatever we are in the now without judgement.

All the love one needs is within . There are very few needs an individual requires as a human being . Food, water, shelter, clothing perhaps .. . everything else can be seen as a weakness through one's desires if you get me .

I do not perceive a weakness in one's desire to experience something, I just perceive a desire to experience, which is how we create our realities, our desires set the intent for something to unfold within our life experience, the desire to hold onto an experience within consciousness once it has been experienced is what creates the boundaries which stops people from experiencing the freedom of just living in the now.

If we choose to use love as a benchmark or judgement, then we have to asses if we have the type or amount of love that we have set up within our consciousness as an ideal or benchmark, it is still a judgement which ties us up rather than setting us free, what is required is an open acceptance of what we are.

When an Individual always looks outside of self for self gratification that can be seen as a weakness .

No, I do not perceive that as a weakness but a misunderstanding of the fullness of self.

I would say self evaluation is what I am suggesting . As stated in a previous post in regards to being part of the purifying process that allows one to be free (getting back on topic)

Self evaluation is not the same as having judgement for another ..

What one has ascertained through one's own evaluation will apply to another because all is one, but only the individual concerned will be able to evaluate their own own thoughts and actions .

No once again, to evaluate self to become more pure or better so that one can ascertain freedom, does not work, it is a trap, it is still a judgement, set against some ideal which will grow stronger the nearer that someone gets to their intended benchmark.

The only person that my thoughts apply to are myself, it is the same with everyone, we are all individually responsible for our own thoughts and any actions which might manifest out of them.

Embracing self in an open and non-judgemental way, allows us to asses self as we actually are without any preconceived judgements or benchmarks, there is no yard stick to measure self against (unless we choose to make one and then we will rejected self), there is only what we are, whatever that happens to be needs to be fully embraced and accepted, no ifs, buts or whys.

That way we are always complete within self and free to express self in an open and non-judgemental way.

Would you say that certain processes like yoga that transmutes karma is anyless effective for example just because its a process that has been proven for all those dedicated to its practice for thousands of years?

I would say that processes of purification, no matter how ancient, are 'false' practices - karma is karma - it's not going to be cleared until the time is right.

Does something / anything need or require to be new in order to have any bearing on anything? If a tried and tested process has worked for many life times for each individual that has entertained them _ does something/anything new need to be brought to the fore?

How do you feel one can purify self W.S. other than what some other individual in our history hasn't already mentioned in some shape or form?

It not the fact of something being new (nothing can be 100% new as it's always derived from something) - but, we are supposed to be living in special times, so maybe there will be 'new' (evolved) practices around.

Hi Daz

There is an attachment within consciousness to the feelings that they have associated with their chosen way of being, it is the attachment which needs to be embraced so that it can be released, once the attachment is released then the the core way of being will transform.

Why do you perceive this as a weakness? They are utilising exactly the same aspects of consciousness that they use when choosing to do anything, becoming fixated upon something within consciousness, is just a focus, it could be on anything, be that religion, self righteousness, pornography, drugs, making money, becoming slim, being judgemental, gambling, smoking, politics, body building etc, they are all chosen focuses that someone has chosen to embrace so that they can experience whatever it brings to their life experience.

Please consider taking judgement out of the equation, judgement implies that something needs forgiveness, but forgiving a judgement will just create another problem born out of the enactment of the self judgement.

Judgement needs letting go of, not forgiving, if we utilise judgement to attempt to become whatever we perceive is an ideal, then we will form an attachment to impurity and create it, or we will achieve our judgemental goal and run the risk of becoming what we perceive to be pure, which will make everyone else impure.

Paul, according to your own philosophy/beliefs each person it entirely responsible for themselves.

So, if you are saying that you (Paul) run the risk of becoming your perception of pure and your following this statement up by saying that this will make everyone else impure. Then where does the (perceived) impurity lie - in yourself or others? And who would you say is responsible for that (perceived) impurity - yourself or others?

I would say that processes of purification, no matter how ancient, are 'false' practices - karma is karma - it's not going to be cleared until the time is right.
.

I would say W.S. when one self enquires the time will be right for one to do so .

x dazzle x

I would say W.S. when one self enquires the time will be right for one to do so .

And the time is always right - for everything.

I would say that processes of purification, no matter how ancient, are 'false' practices - karma is karma - it's not going to be cleared until the time is right.

Karma also can be considered a ‘false practice’. It comes from a particular culture. While it has been adopted by the New Age, it has also been changed to stay within the adopters’ comfort zones.

It not the fact of something being new (nothing can be 100% new as it's always derived from something) - but, we are supposed to be living in special times, so maybe there will be 'new' (evolved) practices around.

Supposed by whom?

Hi Daz

If there was no attachment then they would obviously not continue to pursue whatever is distracting them,.

Hi Paul .

It can be said that one is attached to breathing but one is not always conscious that one is breathing being my point . One could say I am attached to breathing and one may say otherwise . Perhaps it's about how breathing as an example effects an individual .

To be free is simply to embrace and allow ourselves to be whatever we are in the now without judgement.,.

I agree that there is something in what you say for sure but if one just embraces whatever one is doing for example then there is nothing stopping a continuous cycle of sufferings from happening . Like I said embracing one's porn addiction is not dissolving ones addiction and when one is attached to the addiction one is not free of it .

do not perceive a weakness in one's desire to experience something, I just perceive a desire to experience, which is how we create our realities, our desires set the intent for something to unfold within our life experience, the desire to hold onto an experience within consciousness once it has been experienced is what creates the boundaries which stops people from experiencing the freedom of just living in the now.

If we choose to use love as a benchmark or judgement, then we have to asses if we have the type or amount of love that we have set up within our consciousness as an ideal or benchmark, it is still a judgement which ties us up rather than setting us free, what is required is an open acceptance of what we are..

Perhaps the wanting to experience many avenues is inherently built in within the our psyche but one will eventually ascertain that what lies out side of one's self in by ways or means of bring self love will not be the case . Trying to fill the self love void by means of ones desires are only love substitutes for they lack substance . If one gets absorbed within one's desires then one can become weak ..

No, I do not perceive that as a weakness but a misunderstanding of the fullness of self..

You see it as a misunderstanding I see it as a weakness . There was no misunderstanding when I became aware of my weaknesses .

no once again, to evaluate self to become more pure or better so that one can ascertain freedom, does not work, it is a trap, it is still a judgement, set against some ideal which will grow stronger the nearer that someone gets to their intended benchmark..

What I have said that within self evaluation and self enquiry what lies unresolved comes to the surface of one's mind . When one is aware of such one can take steps to resolve them . In the resolvement of such aspects one's vibration will reflect that . One is not free in mind of such issues until they are resolved .

x dazzle x

Hi WildStrawberry

Paul, according to your own philosophy/beliefs each person it entirely responsible for themselves.

So, if you are saying that you (Paul) run the risk of becoming your perception of pure and your following this statement up by saying that this will make everyone else impure. Then where does the (perceived) impurity lie - in yourself or others? And who would you say is responsible for that (perceived) impurity - yourself or others?

No, for me to perceive myself as being pure or impure, then I would have to use self-judgement which results in self-rejection in place of self-acceptance, as I accept myself unconditionally, then the concepts of right and wrong, pure and impure do not come into the equation, I am happy to be what I am right now.

As for what other people think, then that is entirely up to them, it has nothing to do with me, I am not responsible for other peoples thought patterns and beliefs, I do not attempt to make myself fit in with anyone else's perceptions, ideals or judgements, I am my own person and happy to embrace this life experience as it unfolds for what it is, which is simply a life experience which is continually changing and unfolding within the now.

And the time is always right - for everything.

Time seemingly allows a process to begin and end similar to our natural seaons and cycles .

If one leaves an ice cream outside in the sun in a certain amount of time the ice cream will melt .

In a similar process when one is ready to self enquire then a particular process will begin and a particular result will be obtained .

If one continues to be satisfied with love substitutes the process of experiencing love substitutes will be ongoing . In that respect there is no time attributed to how long one can see through the love substitutes . It takes however long it takes, that why we are all at a unique place within ourselves . .

x daz x

Hi Daz

It can be said that one is attached to breathing but one is not always conscious that one is breathing being my point . One could say I am attached to breathing and one may say otherwise . Perhaps it's about how breathing as an example effects an individual .

Their is a difference between breathing as a natural process of the body and creating an attachment to breathing, by learning a breathing pattern routine and becoming obsessed with maintaining it, so that we would spend every waking moment focused upon maintaining the set breathing pattern.

An attachment is something which we create for ourselves within consciousness, we decide that something has to be a certain way and actively pursue it.

I agree that there is something in what you say for sure but if one just embraces whatever one is doing for example then there is nothing stopping a continuous cycle of sufferings from happening . Like I said embracing one's porn addiction is not dissolving ones addiction and when one is attached to the addiction one is not free of it .

Try shifting your focus from what people do and place it upon what they are, suffering is a symptom of a way of thinking, it is the attachments that we create within aspects of our consciousness, which creates the symptoms of suffering, let go of the attachments within self by embracing self and the suffering will not have to manifest.

Everything starts and finishes with a thought, the addiction or attachment for they are the same thing started with one thought, it can be changed by replacing the original thought with another thought.

Perhaps the wanting to experience many avenues is inherently built in within the our psyche but one will eventually ascertain that what lies out side of one's self in by ways or means of bring self love will not be the case . Trying to fill the self love void by means of ones desires are only love substitutes for they lack substance . If one gets absorbed within one's desires then one can become weak ..

There is no void, it is an experience that is created from within the fullness of self to allow us to experience it within our life experience, we are all complete within the fullness of self, we know that when we stop rejecting self and accept self and allow ourselves to be.

You see it as a misunderstanding I see it as a weakness . There was no misunderstanding when I became aware of my weaknesses .

Their was no weakness until you chose to create and experience it, in order to experience it you made a choice which allowed you to create whatever it is that you perceive as a weakness.

You can make another choice to let go of that concept and embrace the fullness of self in an open and non-judgemental way, that way your self imposed perceptions will transform into what you are outside of your perceptions which are being formed out of your current underlying thought patterns and beliefs.

What I have said that within self evaluation and self enquiry what lies unresolved comes to the surface of one's mind . When one is aware of such one can take steps to resolve them . In the resolvement of such aspects one's vibration will reflect that . One is not free in mind of such issues until they are resolved .

The reality is that there is nothing to resolve, we are complete unless we choose to be otherwise.

Karma also can be considered a ‘false practice’. It comes from a particular culture. While it has been adopted by the New Age, it has also been changed to stay within the adopters’ comfort zones.

Maybe so Crowan. If karma is a blockage; barrier or something unconscious which places ultimate reality/divinity on one side and mundanity on the other - then must be plenty of names for that phenomena and those names will hybridize then break apart; hybridize then break apart - over and over through out the many cultures of history, I'd say.

Supposed by whom?

Supposed by me for one - what would you say about that?

Try shifting your focus from what people do and place it upon what they are, suffering is a symptom of a way of thinking, it is the attachments that we create within aspects of our consciousness, which creates the symptoms of suffering, let go of the attachments within self by embracing self and the suffering will not have to manifest.

Hi Paul _ Interesting debate I appreciate your thoughts

How does one embrace self whilst they are caught up in their seduction of porn? How do they contemplate embracing self when they deny having an attachment to porn . You mention embrace self and one turns these attachments into an inner power. . I cannot see how one gets from A to B in the way that you have explained your process and I don’t understand how embracing these aspects of self that which are attached or addicted to these love substitutes bring an end to the addictions . .

There is no void, it is an experience that is created from within the fullness of self to allow us to experience it within our life experience, we are all complete within the fullness of self, we know that when we stop rejecting self and accept self and allow ourselves to be.

If there is no void within mind then why isn’t every Individual expressing self love . I understand and agree that what we are is complete and is here and now, but there are aspects within mind that stops one from realizing self . The so called weaknesses and attachments for example are these aspects of self that I have ascertained that keeps one from realizing one .

Their was no weakness until you chose to create and experience it, in order to experience it you made a choice which allowed you to create whatever it is that you perceive as a weakness.

Nothing exists until what we are creates the experience . I agree therefore that we create our experiences that can bring a weakness to the fore just as a created experience can bring forth an element of one's inner strength . What I am saying is that weaknesses exist it doesn’t matter who or what creates them . When one realizes, accepts, or embraces these self created weaknesses then one has the opportunity to transform them or continue to be seduced by them .

If one decides to remain seduced by them and keeping in line with the topic then they are not free of them .

x dazzle x

Hi Daz

How does one embrace self whilst they are caught up in their seduction of porn?

To embrace self, they need to change the focus from outward looking upon what they have chosen to form an attachment to, and start to focus inward to perceive the fullness of self.

Why do you think that pornography is seductive, do you not think that it is the mind which is interpreting what it sees that has more power then images of pornography or anything else which people create attachments to?

You mention embrace self and one turns these attachments into an inner power. . I cannot see how one gets from A to B in the way that you have explained your process and I don’t understand how embracing these aspects of self that which are attached or addicted to these love substitutes bring an end to the addictions

The attachments are just conscripts of the mind, they are not important unless we choose to continue to empower them, they just allow us to experience something or other, now by focusing upon self in an open and non-judgemental way, we start to perceive our true self and the illusions start to fall away, when we engage with all that we are and allow ourselves to simply be, then we become self empowered.

If there is no void within mind then why isn’t every Individual expressing self love . I understand and agree that what we are is complete and is here and now, but there are aspects within mind that stops one from realizing self . The so called weaknesses and attachments for example are these aspects of self that I have ascertained that keeps one from realizing one .

The problem here is that you have decided that everyone needs to be an expression of whatever it is that you perceive to be love, this brings a judgement into the equation, it creates a benchmark to judge self and others against and everyone will fall short of the mark.

When we let go of these attachments to being judgemental, then what we should have left is simply ourselves and everybody else in true expression of self, with everyone experiencing their life experience in a way that they have chosen to do so.

Nothing exists until what we are creates the experience . I agree therefore that we create our experiences that can bring a weakness to the fore just as a created experience can bring forth an element of one's inner strength . What I am saying is that weaknesses exist it doesn’t matter who or what creates them . When one realizes, accepts, or embraces these self created weaknesses then one has the opportunity to transform them or continue to be seduced by them .

I have seen people transformed instantly from a so called state of weakness, which is a state of being which has embraced inner division and turmoil, into a state of complete wholeness.

If one decides to remain seduced by them and keeping in line with the topic then they are not free of them .

There is nothing seducing anyone, people are not being hoodwinked and brainwashed into believing this or that, they are making personal choices and through those choices, they are creating their life experience.

There is no right or wrong life experience, there is only the life experience that we have chosen to experience for ourselves, if we choose to place judgements and rejections in the way of its expression, then we pay the price of creating restrictions and suffering into our life experience.

If we want to experience happiness or freedom which is another way of saying happiness, then we have to let go of the judgements that we have created within self and embrace self in an open and non-judgemental way.

Maybe so Crowan. If karma is a blockage; barrier or something unconscious which places ultimate reality/divinity on one side and mundanity on the other - then must be plenty of names for that phenomena and those names will hybridize then break apart; hybridize then break apart - over and over through out the many cultures of history, I'd say.

What exactly do you perceive karma to be? I don’t really understand “places ultimate reality/divinity on one side and mundanity on the other”.

Supposed by me for one - what would you say about that?

You wrote: “we are supposed to be living in special times, so maybe there will be 'new' (evolved) practices around. What do you consider is special about these times? And is ‘new’ the same as ‘evolved’, necessarily?

What exactly do you perceive karma to be? I don’t really understand “places ultimate reality/divinity on one side and mundanity on the other”.

If you don't understand what I mean Crowan, I won't try to explain to you - it just leads to me being intensely frustrated, and I don't go there anymore.

What do you consider is special about these times? And is ‘new’ the same as ‘evolved’, necessarily?

Special because of the whole 2012 thing and everything that has lead up to it - don't bother asking me to go into detail about what I mean by that - you'll have to do your own thinking there.

And is ‘new’ the same as ‘evolved’, necessarily?

What do you mean?

If you don't understand what I mean Crowan, I won't try to explain to you - it just leads to me being intensely frustrated, and I don't go there anymore.

Okay – but if I don’t understand you. I can’t comment.

Special because of the whole 2012 thing and everything that has lead up to it - don't bother asking me to go into detail about what I mean by that - you'll have to do your own thinking there.

I asked you, not so that you could do my thinking for me, but so that I could understand what your thinking is. I don’t think we live in any more special times than any other time has been, but I didn’t want to launch into that without checking which of the many “specials” that people talk about you were referring to.

What do you mean?

You wrote “new (evolved)”, which gives the impression that you are using “evolved” to explain the use of “new”. I don’t see them as the same, so I hoped you would expound further so that I could see if I agreed or disagreed.
You sound really fed up. With me, specifically? (Thinking back to the exchange on the Symbolic Dream thread.) Or generally?

Okay – but if I don’t understand you. I can’t comment.
I asked you, not so that you could do my thinking for me, but so that I could understand what your thinking is. I don’t think we live in any more special times than any other time has been, but I didn’t want to launch into that without checking which of the many “specials” that people talk about you were referring to.
You wrote “new (evolved)”, which gives the impression that you are using “evolved” to explain the use of “new”. I don’t see them as the same, so I hoped you would expound further so that I could see if I agreed or disagreed.
You sound really fed up. With me, specifically? (Thinking back to the exchange on the Symbolic Dream thread.) Or generally?

You can comment on whatever you like Crowan, and if you don't understand my thinking.... well, um... so what. If it doesn't 'resonate' as we seem to be saying around here... that's the way it is.

I see what you mean about the use of "evolved" and "new"... but - see the above paragraph and ditto it.

And yes I am a 'fed up' with having to explain myself to people who seem to lack even the most fundamental insight, so ... as I said earlier, if you don't understand what I'm saying, work it out for yourself, because I won't be expounding anything until suits me :).

At this point - do I need to point you towards your own signature;)

Hi Daz
To embrace self, they need to change the focus from outward looking upon what they have chosen to form an attachment to, and start to focus inward to perceive the fullness of self. .

Will get round to the rest of your post later ...

When an individual changes their focus paul it will be because one has contemplated, evaluated, enquired as to why one will change their focus ...

But you don't agree with self judgement do you paul?

Or

Do you feel that one will change their focus on some love substitute and focus within just out of the blue .. . I would say that there is an inner evaluation that occurs that will direct one's attention from outside to within ...

x daz x

Hi Daz

When an individual changes their focus paul it will be because one has contemplated, evaluated, enquired as to why one will change their focus ...

But you don't agree with self judgement do you paul?

The process is a redirection, they need to let go of the internal judgements and evaluations that are causing their inner divisions, strife and disharmony, instead they need to embrace and accept self completely so that they can become whole.

Or

Do you feel that one will change their focus on some love substitute and focus within just out of the blue .. . I would say that there is an inner evaluation that occurs that will direct one's attention from outside to within ...

No I do not perceive an addiction or attachment to love is any better than an attachment to heroine or pornography, they all create inner divisions that distract people and stop them form being real and true to self.

The idea is not to substitute one attachment for another, but to create a shift within consciousness that will redirect them towards wholeness and inner harmony that will set them free from their self imposed bonds.

Hi Daz

The process is a redirection, they need to let go of the internal judgements and evaluations that are causing their inner divisions, strife and disharmony, instead they need to embrace and accept self completely so that they can become whole.

Hi Mate,

Yes you can call it a redirection but one redirects for a reason otherwise one will continue to do what one has always done . Before you entered into your healing work paul I assume you were doing something else . The time came perhaps when you made a decision to let go of what you used to do or do a little of both . This type of crossroads one faces in life entails an inner evaluation . One enquires if this is what one should do . Perhaps one listens to their inner voice or whatever but whilst one has individual will there will be inner evaluation had . You speak of often free will and within free will one can choose what to experience . When a choice is made there a reasons as to why one chooses what one does . Contemplation, evaluation, self enquiry are all words that can be used to fit the bill . You have chosen to use judgement .

The idea is not to substitute one attachment for another, but to create a shift within consciousness that will redirect them towards wholeness and inner harmony that will set them free from their self imposed bonds.

A homeless man on the streets has in his possession a dime and he holds on to it for dear life . A stranger passes by and offers him a dollar and he drops the dime in an instant . That’s how attachment and detachment works . Whilst one has individual will one will attach from one thing to another because whilst one is not living and experiencing life in the full realization of their being one will be attaching to some degree to something or other .

In a way the last attachment is to God or self if you like and at that point one has let go of everything of the material world . The attachment if you like can be likened to devotion and is not of the same elk as an attachment that one that thinks that what one is _ is strictly of the flesh and in that one can be attached to desires of the flesh .

I agree that when one substitutes one attachment for another one is for use of a better phrase just changing one garment for another and if the name of the game is to get naked (lol) then one will never shed their skin . I would say that there comes a point when each new garment that is attained becomes more transparent each time until one is wearing nothing at all .

Are you free of garments Paul . Are you free of making decisions?

x dazzle x

Hi Daz

When I talk of creating a redirection, then this is something which I have learnt to do for myself and others, I still remember what it is like to be stuck in a rut, blocking self by utilising judgements to attempt to do what is perceived as the right thing to do and having attachments that only served to create disharmony and suffering.

There is a difference between simply making a life choice that only requires us to choose to do something or not, and making a life choice based around a judgement which requires us to decide if something is it right for us to do or not!

Are you free of garments Paul .

No I have a wardrobe full.

Are you free of making decisions?

No I have to make life choices all of the time, but the process is simple.

When I talk of creating a redirection, then this is something which I have learnt to do for myself and others, I still remember what it is like to be stuck in a rut, blocking self by utilising judgements to attempt to do what is perceived as the right thing to do and having attachments that only served to create disharmony and suffering.

There is a difference between simply making a life choice that only requires us to choose to do something or not, and making a life choice based around a judgement which requires us to decide if something is it right for us to do or not!

.

Hi Mate,

Certain re directional pathways that one undertakes can be in align with one’s conscience would you agree paul . One’s conscience is a yard stick for what is seemingly right or wrong and yet what sits well of one’s conscience may not sit well of anothers so it’s all about internal evaluation .

No I have a wardrobe full.

.

Lol do you have any flared jeans you don’t want size 34 waist will be ideal ..

No I have to make life choices all of the time, but the process is simple.

.

The more that one is in touch with the self one’s decisions / choices made can become so automated that there seems like there is no choice to make one intuitively knows what serves them .

Like you say the process can be seen to be of a process of simplicity but for millions and billions of individuals who do not know themselves will therefore not know what to do, where to go who to be with, etc, etc .. in that aspect there is much soul searching to be done . Much contemplation, evaluation, self enquiring ..

x daz x

Hi Daz

Certain re directional pathways that one undertakes can be in align with one’s conscience would you agree paul . One’s conscience is a yard stick for what is seemingly right or wrong and yet what sits well of one’s conscience may not sit well of anothers so it’s all about internal evaluation .

Actually I would not agree with that statement, the use of the word conscious as taught in religious circles does not tie in with what goes on within our aspects of consciousness.

We have a core way of being which is formed around whatever we choose to believe, it is not set in stone, we transform it all of the time.

Hi Daz

Actually I would not agree with that statement, the use of the word conscious as taught in religious circles does not tie in with what goes on within our aspects of consciousness.

We have a core way of being which is formed around whatever we choose to believe, it is not set in stone, we transform it all of the time.

Hi Mate,

What has one’s conscience have to do with what is taught in religious circles . Can an Individual not ascertain what sits well with one’s conscience without the influence of what some religious big wig has come up with as a definition of such .

If one’s conscience is clear then one is as fair as one can be and in that expression true to themselves as well as others .

If one’s conscience is not clear then one has the potential to address which is muddying the water . that is one’s prerogative .

If one’s conscience is not clear then one is not free within mind .

To be free is to be pure of thought and pure of action like I said in previous posts .. It all ties in . There is a method to my madness .

x dazzle x

Hi Daz

The word conscience depicts a thought pattern which is passing judgement between right/wrong, pure/impure, good/evil it creates inner division and conflict not wholeness and inner harmony.

What sits right in one situation is not always applicable for another situation, as long as we are happy with our thoughts and actions in any given situation, then we are complete within self.

Hi Daz

The word conscience depicts a thought pattern which is passing judgement between right/wrong, pure/impure, good/evil it creates inner division and conflict not wholeness and inner harmony.

Hi Mate,

Ok _ lets forget about the meaning / definition of the word and get to grips with how does one feel for instance when they are the cause of another's suffering .

If one is aware of how it is like to feel emotions then how does one evaluate one's thoughts and actions that have led to this supposed suffering ..

Forget about what is right and wrong and savor the moment of how it makes one feel .

Now take what is felt and see if it sits well within self . Can one live with such thoughts and actions and be free from there repercussions .

Have you a conscience paul .?

What sits right in one situation is not always applicable for another situation, as long as we are happy with our thoughts and actions in any given situation, then we are complete within self.

Exactly . This is what I said or there about in a prior post .

What sits well with one situation may not for another . What sits well for one may not for another for it's not about right or wrong as such or what another thinks ..

It's about self evaluation .

x dazzle x

Hi Daz

Ok _ lets forget about the meaning / definition of the word and get to grips with how does one feel for instance when they are the cause of another's suffering .

Each person is different, some people take great pleasure out of causing suffering for others, whilst other people would experience guilt from their self judgements, yet again others would understand that we create our own realities and if someone chooses to embrace suffering, then that is their right to choose to do that.

If one is aware of how it is like to feel emotions then how does one evaluate one's thoughts and actions that have led to this supposed suffering ..

Feelings are a physiological response to our thought patterns and beliefs, suffering is caused by internal conflicts, often perpetuated through inner judgements and evaluating ones self as not measuring up against an ideal.

Have you a conscience paul .?

No. I appear to have lost that when I let go of being judgemental, but I do have several aspects of consciousness which collectively make me whole.

Exactly . This is what I said or there about in a prior post .

What sits well with one situation may not for another . What sits well for one may not for another for it's not about right or wrong as such or what another thinks ..

It's about self evaluation .

I do not think that we are not going to agree on this one.

Evaluation requires inner judgements, judgement requires rejection and division between one aspect of self and another aspect of self, the resisting inner conflicts between our aspects of consciousness ties people in knots and locks up their free will to choose.

But when people are happy to stand on their own two feet and take personal responsibility for themselves and their own thought patterns and beliefs, then they are ready to apply unconditional self acceptance in an open and non-judgemental way to embrace the fullness of self and create inner wholeness and happiness which gives them the freedom to choose in an open and non-judgemental way.

Each person is different, some people take great pleasure out of causing suffering for others, whilst other people would experience guilt from their self judgements, yet again others would understand that we create our own realities and if someone chooses to embrace suffering, then that is their right to choose to do that.

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Hi Paul,

I agree paul that some people take great pleasure out of causing suffering to others and that will often be the case if one is deaf to the sound of their inner voice . Individuals inflict sufferings on to others because of a lack of awareness in that the one causing the sufferings and the one that suffers are one and the same .

People have free will to do all sorts of things either to themselves or to another but what stops one person from causing suffering to another and for one to not ?. It’s not down to free choice alone that allows one to do so or not it’s to do with a level of self awareness and one becomes self aware when one is in touch with what they are . Part of getting to know self is to listen to their inner voice .

No. I appear to have lost that when I let go of being judgemental, but I do have several aspects of consciousness which collectively make me whole.

.

So if you upset someone for example accidentally or not do you carry on regardless ? Do you say sorry to someone you may of upset . If you say sorry that means one has made an evaluation that one has made another upset . Do you go through life shrugging your shoulders perhaps?

Evaluation requires inner judgements, judgement requires rejection and division between one aspect of self and another aspect of self, the resisting inner conflicts between our aspects of consciousness ties people in knots and locks up their free will to choose.

But when people are happy to stand on their own two feet and take personal responsibility for themselves and their own thought patterns and beliefs, then they are ready to apply unconditional self acceptance in an open and non-judgemental way to embrace the fullness of self and create inner wholeness and happiness which gives them the freedom to choose in an open and non-judgemental way.

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When people take responsibility for themselves then they take responsibility for all thoughts and actions made . You cannot take responsibility if one is oblivious to what sits well with one’s conscience paul . For anyone who stands up and holds themselves responsible or accountable one must be able to ascertain through inner evaluations what is redeemed as being responsible ...

One cannot escape inner evaluation or in your words self judgement whilst one is functioning in life as an individual with individual will in motion ...

x dazzle x

Hi Daz

So if you upset someone for example accidentally or not do you carry on regardless ? Do you say sorry to someone you may of upset . If you say sorry that means one has made an evaluation that one has made another upset . Do you go through life shrugging your shoulders perhaps?

If someone chooses to become upset over something which is given to them in an open and non-judgemental way, then who do you think needs to take responsibility for that upset?

I do not understand how your current understanding of this fits in with being true to your true authentic self!

Taking responsibility through unconditional self acceptance in an open and non-judgemental way, is definitely not the same as being responsible for what we judge or evaluate for self and others to be right or wrong, pure or impure, good or bad etc.

You will not know if this is true or not until you put it into practice and just allow yourself to be, rather than assessing if you are having pure thoughts and performing pure actions or not etc.