lies, lies and dam*...
 
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lies, lies and dam* lies

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(@cactuschris)
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What Happens when we lie?
What happens when we lie to other people?
What happens when we lie to ourselves?

Many times we give out false impressions or words, it seems to be part of not only human nature but has been observed in nature as well. This to some extent makes it a survival strategy, part of who we have become and part of our social structure. We accept it, we see lies as small instances that will not hurt anyone, we do it to ‘help’ others, deciding what they should and should not believe, we even do it to ourselves.
We usually do not consider the consequences other than to justify the action as ‘for the best’, but this only adds us to the list of those being lied to.

When we lie we seek to alter who we are, we suppress the honest person inside, we over-ride the shout from the heart that wants to be honest and over-rule the knowledge that lying is dis-honest and that we would not aspire to being deceitful, especially to ourselves, we wish for the end, the death of the honest person inside us.

Most often we lie to hold on to impressions that others have of us, or we of ourselves, we seek to retain a social standing and not be seen for the person we really are, we wish to hide our real self and live with a mask that we believe makes us appear better than we actually are. Actually it seems to work, but this is because we all do it, in small or big ways, in minor social interactions and in many aspects of our daily lives.
Sometimes we lie to others thinking that we are being kind, we tell others a lie to make them feel better, or at least to avoid them being offended, but what we actually do is to tell them that they are not up to the mark, for however we couch the words they will not ring true, and the listener will know that. The problem also lies with the fact that if we are prepared to lie to them in a small way, then we are not to be trusted, and this too cleaves relationships apart and the trust they are dependent on is shattered. In all of this of course we avoid telling the truth, we fear to tell the truth and so we give in to our fears and lie.

Herein lies the real problem: fear. Much of the reason why we lie is about fear, the fear of loss, the fear that others will not like us for who we are, the fear of facing who we really are.
This stops us from being who we are, stops others from liking us for who we really are, and stops us from loving ourselves, and this halts any personal development we might make. We lock ourselves into a web of lies until we are so trussed up in them that we become immobile. Understand then the real meaning of “The truth shall set you free”.

We lie to avoid the consequences of the truth because of fear, yet this is very short sighted, for the truth, living by the truth and striving only to think, see and speak the truth actually brings happiness. We begin to understand the freedom that the truth brings, we begin to accept people (and ourselves) unconditionally for who we are, we understand and accept the real costs and benefits of the things we do, and this clarity allows us to make decisions about how we live.

This is important – really important, by living with the truth we can allow our inner voice to guide us and this brings peace and happiness, calm and balance. For instance, we know that the choices we make have a price and a reward, we know if we are really honest that if we hurt someone our hearts ache with sorrow, if we take without giving we owe with no intention of redress, if we support cruel practises then we are responsible for that cruelty.
It is no good denying these things, saying it doesn’t matter, or denying what we owe with apparent bravado or declining to acknowledge the cruelty we cause, for if we do we lie to ourselves, we deny the person who we are and although inside we despise ourselves this cycle reduces our self-respect to the point where all that is left is fear and lies – we become spiritually bankrupt – we live in fear of our inner, honest voice, we bring on our own spiritual death.

People have died for telling the truth, in a world of deception the truthsayer is not popular, their reflection into society displays the fear and imbalance that society carries round like an albatross, it is a difficult road, a lonely road sometimes, but it brings joy and bliss, inner peace and balance, growth and vision, a chance to be who we are and love who we are.

love
chris

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Posts: 126
 meta
(@meta)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago

Mankind is a product of utter ignorance, so it must follow that all we think and do, must be a complete lie, it's even impossble to state a Truth, even if it is. It be at best an echo of the divine.
Regards Meta

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Posts: 1838
(@jnani)
Noble Member
Joined: 14 years ago

All lies are rooted in identification with ego. The illusion that I exist separately from the whole is the only lie. All the rest ensue from that. Going beyond lies is going beyond just this one lie the 'I' exists.

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Posts: 0
Joined: 54 years ago

We lie to avoid the consequences of the truth because of fear, yet this is very short sighted, for the truth, living by the truth and striving only to think, see and speak the truth actually brings happiness. We begin to understand the freedom that the truth brings, we begin to accept people (and ourselves) unconditionally for who we are, we understand and accept the real costs and benefits of the things we do, and this clarity allows us to make decisions about how we live.

Depends what you mean by truth... After all, one person's truth is another person's lie. Reality is a subjective experience.

I'm not sure anyone has the right to inflict their version of truth on someone else - especially those who claim to have the 'true' version of the truth.

'Speaking one's truth' is often a disguise for treating another person with cruelty.

I need to be honest about myself to myself. When it comes to relating to others, I need to act out of kindness and compassion.

Truth is a mighty sword. It can be used to cut bonds. It can also be used to slay.

If I had to choose between being truthful and being compassionate, I'd take compassionate any day.

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jeannie
Posts: 1848
(@jeannie)
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Joined: 17 years ago

I used to think Venetian was my son (in hiding) on here - now everytime I see a post from cactuschris it is often like my son is talking and I think it must be you until I checked and notice you are an Aquarian. :wave:

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Posts: 959
Topic starter
(@cactuschris)
Prominent Member
Joined: 14 years ago

Hello Jeannie,
what a loveley message, you honour me with your words - I don't know what aspects remind you of your son but I am happy that he is in your thoughts, the bonds between you are there forever and no hidden paths or distance can break the connection. I lost my first child to cancer when she was three and love I feel now is a strong as the love I felt then, this is the power of the connections we make with those we love.

love
chris

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jeannie
Posts: 1848
(@jeannie)
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Joined: 17 years ago

cactuschris, sent you a pm.

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Posts: 656
(@star_dust)
Honorable Member
Joined: 18 years ago

Interesting topic. Recently I watched a movie called 'The Invention of Lying' - a fictional portrayal of a world where people do not know what a lie is or how to lie. It certainly made me consider whether or not 'truth' (yes I agree truth is relative) is always the best route!

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jeannie
Posts: 1848
(@jeannie)
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I think I have seen this film Star_dust, was it starring Ricky Gervais?

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Posts: 656
(@star_dust)
Honorable Member
Joined: 18 years ago

Yes! It was funny in a very strange way. Because people didn't have the ability to lie, they were just brutally honest to one another all the time to the effect that everyone became very blasse to all the insulting or degrading things said to them on a daily basis!

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LavenderRose
Posts: 848
(@lavenderrose)
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Joined: 17 years ago

any version of the "truth" is distorted by ego, our own experience and our own belief system, we cannot communicate except through it.

If there is an experience by 7 different people, there will be 7 different true stories about it ... and that's before you get to journalism wanting a story thread ...

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Posts: 959
Topic starter
(@cactuschris)
Prominent Member
Joined: 14 years ago

Hi LavenderRose,
What you say is correct - we each see and know our own truth, this does not lend us to dispair, to move us away from speaking the truth as we know and see it, the process of speaking the truth comes from within - it is how we live our lives and only by following the truth as we know it can we express fully our love and comapssion that lies within - this is the reason to speak the truth, the truth as we know it.

love
chris

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LavenderRose
Posts: 848
(@lavenderrose)
Prominent Member
Joined: 17 years ago

Hi LavenderRose,
What you say is correct - we each see and know our own truth, this does not lend us to dispair, to move us away from speaking the truth as we know and see it, the process of speaking the truth comes from within - it is how we live our lives and only by following the truth as we know it can we express fully our love and comapssion that lies within - this is the reason to speak the truth, the truth as we know it.

love
chris

Yes, that's it better put ....

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Posts: 959
Topic starter
(@cactuschris)
Prominent Member
Joined: 14 years ago

It seems that people are becoming more accepting of dishonesty -
[url]BBC News - Are people in the UK becoming more dishonest?[/url]

Rise in dishonesty signals looming 'integrity crisis' in Britain

British people have become less honest in the last decade, according to a study suggesting moral decline.

[url]Rise in dishonesty signals looming 'integrity crisis' in Britain - Telegraph[/url]

So how do we find a sustainable alternative to reverse our narcissistic trajectory? The approach in recent decades has been to introduce ever more rules and regulations to govern unruly conduct.
[url]Leading article: In matters of dishonesty, we are all in it together - Leading Articles - Opinion - The Independent[/url]

so legislation is introduced to try to force this - and of course healing is in the frame as well.

shame on us....

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Crowan
Posts: 3429
(@crowan)
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It seems that people are becoming more accepting of dishonesty -

Maybe one of the factors that leads to this is a general assumption by governments that people are going to be dishonest. I'm thinking of situations where someone telephones the agencies that deal with benefits of any sort and at intervals throughout the conversation a recorded voice tells you that it is against the law to give false information - regardless of the fact that there's no reason to suspect the caller of lying. And we are constantly informed that cheats and 'scroungers' are all around us.

If we are constantly treated as dishonest, there's almost bound to be some 'rubbing off'.

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Posts: 959
Topic starter
(@cactuschris)
Prominent Member
Joined: 14 years ago

Hi Crowan,
Yes – some will rub off, and in some cases it makes people realise that there may be ‘reasons to lie’.
The problems with all this is that eventually we begin to lie not only to ‘the bureaucrats’, but to those that matter in their lives, including themselves. The idea that ‘everyone does it’ allows people to use these lies to con and defraud others without any particular feeling that it is wrong, and in some cases to even be proud of it.
We start to see people abusing the idea of logical syllogism and by minor steps degrade the honesty about what they are doing, applying the logic to jumps that are not warranted and are just made to enable them to make a jump to a ‘wish I was there’ point.
At the sharp end of course are those who listen and have no way to distinguish fact from fiction, truth from lies, and they are then easily mislead. The more desperate, or the more greedy/needy they are the easier they are deluded, and this does not just include other people, we can each convince ourselves of things if we choose to.
As far as healing goes this is key, those who come for healing are often very vulnerable, and those who seek to be healers ready to believe anything. Con men exploit the greed or the need of people, that is their modus operandi, and people seeking healing are in need – and therefore relatively easily parted with their hard earned cash.
love
chris

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NICE_1
Posts: 1165
(@nice_1)
Noble Member
Joined: 13 years ago

What Happens when we lie?


Hi Chris .

I have heard that our noses grow bigger/longer .

I have a distant friend that can see auras and he spoke of how one’s energies change when they lie / are deceitful . Wouldn’t it be cool if everyone could tell when another is lying . Many get a feel/sense for it now more than ever I would say .

So many expressions made seem to be ever so transparent - don’t you think .

No one really gets away with anything in the long run . We cannot kid a kidder as they say .


What happens when we lie to other people?


Well firstly one takes on board the associated energies that being deceitful contains and that can be expressed outwardly or one can keep the energies suppressed in a way of denying that they are being anything less than honest .

Many are unaware of the effects that being untruthful has upon oneself .



What happens when we lie to ourselves?

That’s just another term for being in denial I would say . An individual can keep on saying to themselves that I didn’t mean to do or say this or that for instance but telling oneself that is the case will only bring a glimpse of sunshine to an inevitable gloomy existence .

Of course there are varying degrees as to what a lie can contain and that will reflect upon how one can live openly and freely with such knowings .

x daz x

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Posts: 959
Topic starter
(@cactuschris)
Prominent Member
Joined: 14 years ago

Hi daz,
Yes - I agree with many of you views.

love
chris

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Crowan
Posts: 3429
(@crowan)
Famed Member
Joined: 14 years ago

What happens when we lie to ourselves or others?
We become ever more disconnected from truth and from those parts of our souls which are connected to truth. We lose soul.

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