Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

RE: Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

ORIGINAL: maylily

..This one is for all the healthy sceptics among you, and I retain faith that there must surely remain some of the above, somewhere on this forum -

Well there's me

HUTTON IS ACCUSED OF A 'WHITEWASH'
N.B Is the Hutton Report now to be treated as the 'Official Reality of the whole affair? Does anyone really believe in Fairy Tales?

Yes I believe that there was real evidence that Saddam Hussein had WMD and I also believe the one about the old woman who lived in a shoe Notwithstanding the Hutton Whitewash, the real issue has always been the justification for this war. Whatever Dr Kelly might have said to Mr Gilligan, the bottom line is that Mr Blair sold this war on the basis that Mr Hussein had WMD -this information turns out to be false. Mr Blair claims that this was an innocent mistake, that it's not his fault if the intelligence was wrong. I call this passing the buck - it was Mr Blair's judgement that the intelligence was accurate. It is as plain as day to me that Bush and Blair exaggerated Hussein's military capability in order to justify an illegal war.

Dr L

RE: Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

[sm=1kis.gif] What a babe you are, O' Lightbody..
x
Maylily (Aka another solitary voice in the wilderness)

RE: Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

It seems our political decision makers do not care a jot about international law either.
x
Maylily

RE: Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

Hello

Saddam H. was not a nice person. He was not good for the Country of Iraq I am hopefull that his people will one day have a Great Leader and he will be of Iraq birth. I am not a political person but I reasoned it out simply in my own way. If a child is taken from parents for reasons of not Feeding the child properly. However the findings were that the childs nutrision was enough, but the children did in fact have a Father who was violent to them. The children are free of fear whatever the original motives for taking the children into peace.
So I myself am glad for the people and children of Iraq, they nead now to find someone of there own choice to lead them.
I feel for Mr Kelly and his family. He Loved his Job but he loved his fellow man more, and he had his own truth irispective of the secrets act that was impressed on him. We all know of what people have to do in certain Jobs, and Pschologists have done research into how we can feel pressured into doing through our work what our concience is telling us is wrong. Dr Kelly did what he felt was RIGHT he new also others could see otherwise. I wish he could have stayed with us as I feel the English people would have stood by him. Sometimes the secrets are too much.

Kemana

RE: Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

[sm=FIFangel.gif]Hi Kemana
That was an interesting analogy using the child, and thanks for your input & reply. It was much appreciated. While I wouldn’t attempt to deny that Saddam committed atrocities against his own people (as there is clear & resounding evidence that he did) I’m not sure that it would be accurate to say that Iraq war and intervention has brought peace. Far from it – since the allied occupation of Iraq hundreds of Iraq’s have been killed there is widespread disorder and breakdown of control and despite Saddams' capture the region still remains destabilised and Iraqi citizens continue to be killed along with our troops. It is a deeply upsetting issue when it comes to considering the erasure of human lives. Those in governance are thousands and thousands of miles distant from the direct consequences of their decision-making this is a simple fact. Evaluation of these issues doesn’t require that you are a political person with a politically biased agenda – you have a valid and legitimate voice and we all possess a common link here in this discussion – concern for humanity.[sm=grouphug.gif]

I wouldn’t categorise myself as a liberal, nor an anti-war pacifist, anti-labour, nor am I liberal, conservative or anarchist, none of the former in fact – At the moment I would consider myself without faith when it comes to confidence in the truth of our political democracy or the democratic content of our institutions although it is true we do not face judicial killing or torture for airing our views in this country compared with elsewhere, the undermining of democracy is no less insidious if government and functionaries are not held properly accountable in their decision making when based on flawed evidential foundations. At this precise moment, I would not be one to rush to place the word integrity alongside politician, as sadly to my estimation there are very few who retain that quality with the exception of figures like retired Tony Benn MP & Robin Cook who displayed the courage to stand resolutely by their convictions. While I don’t necessarily agree with their politics, courage and integrity is obviously a rare mark of character.

The US and Britain have used the WMD premise to justify intervention, and submitted that their decision-making possessed a legitimate evidential foundation. They have also used the political rhetoric that they were doing so - as necessary in order to protect against human rights abuses by the evil Saddam Hussein.

This justification for intervention is a familiar one, yet it is hardly surprising that many people are sceptical on whether this was ever the true motivation, as many governments across the world, most specifically the four superpowers are selective as to when they will ‘intervene’ on the basis of human rights atrocities. The ‘blind eye syndrome’ is most frequently practiced unless there is strategic or resource reasoning for intervention.

If you research widely, you may find it particularly disturbing that both US and western governments alike have formerly had a direct hand or have been directly supportive (finance, aid etc) of the particular faction which they later denounce and determine to be an abusive regime. It is significant that while the abuses have been carried out in these countries and they have been ‘friendly allies’ the human rights of these subjects have been routinely ignored during that period and international law routinely flouted when it came to their own activities.

The Arab/Israeli problem – Muslim v Western world – often our political ‘masters’ are keen to scapegoat and sound the division bells amongst us for economic and other less transparent justifications than they are prepared to publicly extol. Instead there is layer upon layer of endless political spin to alter public perceptions of an event or decision. Disturbing trend – the present PM does not even seem particularly concerned to obtain popular consent re his policies from public or from within his own party. This is appalling. Surely, this borders on political

RE: Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

Hello
You put your points very well Maylily. Our Governments do exactly what they want without listening to us, so many people spoke of thier oposition to War. The leaders these days listen no more to the people who put them in there position and they forget untill the elections come near that we can get them out. Pity there are some good people, in this Government but some others have got to big for thier boots.

Kemana

RE: Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

[sm=FIFangel.gif]Hello Kemana - of course you have pinpointed the current attitude absolutely..that the present government as it is constituted really does not care to gain the consensus of the people with its policies..

What about his latest duplicitous footwork then? His latest 'an agreement to hold an inquiry'.. but to considerably limit the focus of the review to the question of gathered intelligence? Is this politics, or a comedy turn, I wonder? Or are they both identical at the moment? One wonders..

Does the Prime Minister’s latest decision to call an inquiry into the WMD issue possess any integrity whatsoever, considering that the terms of that inquiry are to be limited in scope – to merely consider the sole question of the intelligence gathered, and not the propriety & legitimacy of his own political decision making?

I guess that this is Emperor Blair parading about again wearing his birthday suit for the second time this week, but he won’t listen will he to any small intelligent little people in the audience when they tell him a very simple fact – that despite any amount of political spinning this set of ‘dirty clothes’ won’t wash either.

Maybe the nation should draw up a sign for this errantboy and perhaps would-be- war criminal and ask, ‘Would the Prime Minister kindly cease and desist from all the low & contemptible party games, like, ‘’Pin the Tail on the Intelligence Services?’’ or ‘’Pass the Parcel’’ The..'It wasn't me Sir, it was Him!'' Mentality.

Perhaps someone should tell him, ''Prime Minister – You’re really not in Kansas anymore and no amount of clicking your heels three times will get you out of this one so long as there really are intelligent life forms out there.''
x
Maylily
[sm=sandrine.gif]

RE: Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

In l939 Nazi Germany invaded Poland. We went to war because we had a treaty with Poland and defended that country.

What gives us the right to behave like Nazi germany?

Saddam was and is an evil man, but, most of us were confused after 9/11 and led to believe in this man's determination to destroy the West.

We suffered from apathy and confusion and allowed Blair and Bush to march in and take over someone else's country. This cannot be right.

Gillyxxx

RE: Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

Gillyan,

just to add a twist to the tale, before Iraq and Sadam were labeled as the devil incarnate by the US, Iran was the target of America's hate. The US supplied untold armaments to Iraq to help them in their war against Iraq, under the ultra sophisticated doctrine of 'Any enemy of an enemy of ours, is a friend'. Am I being suspicious to a paranoidal degree, if I wonder if Sadam is not using this 'friendship' in his negotiations with his US captors.

Leo

RE: Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

[sm=FIFangel.gif]Hi..Underhandedness and duplicity is a key feature of Blair's Prime Ministership in my estimation. He ought to be brought to trial for war crimes over Iraq and made accountable for his decision-making in office.
x
Maylily

RE: Hutton Enquiry in The Independent

Front page of today's Independent:

Tutu tells Blair: Apologise for 'immoral' war
By Nigel Morris, Home Affairs Correspondent
16 February 2004

Archbishop Desmond Tutu will challenge Tony Blair and George Bush today to apologise for their pursuit of a counter-productive and "immoral" war in Iraq.

In a scathing analysis of the background to the invasion, he will ridicule the "dangerously flawed" intelligence that Britain and the US used to justify a military action which has made the world a "great deal less safe".

The intervention of the Nobel peace prize winner in the controversy over Iraq follows a series of deadly terrorist attacks in the country over the past week, including an armed raid on a police station on Saturday in which 22 people died.

Delivering the Longford Lecture, sponsored by The Independent, the emeritus Archbishop of Cape Town will argue that the turmoil after the war proved it is an illusion to believe that "force and brutality" leads to greater security.

"How wonderful if politicians could bring themselves to admit they are only fallible human creatures and not God and thus by definition can make mistakes. Unfortunately, they seem to think that such an admission is a sign of weakness. Weak and insecure people hardly ever say 'sorry'.

"It is large-hearted and courageous people who are not diminished by saying: 'I made a mistake'. President Bush and Prime Minister Blair would recover considerable credibility and respect if they were able to say: 'Yes, we made a mistake'."

The archbishop will link Mr Bush's support, when he was Governor of Texas, for capital punishment with a new philosophy behind the invasion of Iraq. He will say: "It may not be fanciful to see a connection between this and the belligerent militarist policies that have produced a novel and dangerous principle, that of pre-emption on the basis of intelligence reports that in one particular instance have been shown can be dangerously flawed and yet were the basis for the United States going to war, dragging a Britain that declared that intelligence reports showed Iraq to have the capacity to launch its weapons of mass destruction in a matter of minutes.

"An immoral war was thus waged and the world is a great deal less safe place than before. There are many more who resent the powerful who can throw their weight about so callously and with so much impunity."

The archbishop, who was awarded the Nobel prize in 1984, will suggest that the two leaders have operated a policy of "might is right - and to hell with the rule of international law".