Citrine

Hi hun yes iv'e also heard that dark orangy brown is heat treated Amethyst and that real Citrine is a wonderfull soft light clear gold, i have one of these and the energy is definatly different, i hate it when they alter crystals.:)

Yes, my instinct tells me to go with the natural citrine, even though it is more pricey! I might find some of the altered variety sometime to see what kind of effect it has, but for now I'll go with the natural kind.

Natural Citrine is not always the colour you might expect; I have some that have an almost yellow greenish hue. Treated Amethyst is not Citrine; despite being marketed as such. Natural Citrine is pricey - but it is also very hard to sometimes distinguish it from the 'burnt Amethyst' - unless you can see its energy - in which case there's no question. Be aware that some Natural Citrine comes from Congo & that is a country which has (in my opinion) dubious mining ethics.
Natural Citrine also comes from Brazil - as does all (or virtually all) of the fake stuff! There is a variety called 'Rio Grande Topaz' - which isn't actually a Topaz at all - but Citrine. It's just a variety named after a location.
Generally speaking - if it is actually being sold as Natural and it is expensive (by comparison to the heated Amethyst) then it is probably genuine.

kind regards

A.

Hello
Judy Hall's books give the impression that treated citrine/amethyst is Ametrine?

If that is true then it really shows how very limited her knowledge on minerals actually is!!! Wouldn't that be a telling indication...

Natural Citrine is the (traditional) yellow Quartz.

Amethyst is the purple / lilac / indigo blue Quartz.

Ametrine is where both mineral types exist simultaneously, often in the 'Massive' Amethyst variety (ie without crystal points and just mined deposit like Rose Quartz). You can often find Ametrine accidentally being sold as Maruba Amethyst (coming from a district in Bolivia). But I do have crystal points of Ametrine too - so its not a hard and fast rule.
Ametrine has an overall purplish colour with streaks / sections of the distinctly yellow to brown citrine effect in it too. Mineralogically speaking it would probably be classed as just an anomaly in Quartz Amethyst type, but certainly it has an entirely different energetic quality to it; its energy looks totally different too.

A.

Here's the difference between their energies:

Ametrine:

Citrine:

These two images are copyright protected by the author.

A.

Apollo, Would the energy of a particular crystal behave differently if it is

a) a tumblestone
b) a pointed specimen

Hi Rosi,

The long answer is:

In our research we defined that tumblestones in some cases can definitely show a difference in their energies as opposed to the normal, natural rough crystals with points… However as much as some do and some don’t show a difference – it indicated that there had to be ‘something else’ other than just the stones involved. There had to be laws that give cause as to why one will and one won’t show a difference.

For example, Amethyst when normal with its point shows its true, natural energy – yet when polished it loses up to 80% of the emitted energy. Also – the unpolished crystal has what we call a ‘Solar Energy’ channel that goes in to its point – shown here on the Citrine point. This channel is present on every point of every crystal; some have several such channels (such as Calcite). The ‘extremely fine thread like channels’ that act to take away the mineral energy from the body of the stone appear to have ‘design’ in that they seem to have a purposeful course or pattern to them. Yet when the stone is polished these channels become chaotic and no longer follow a pattern – instead they randomly swirl all around the stone (Amethyst) and at first appear like a cloud. The Solar Energy channel is completely gone from the polished crystals.

Now Clear Quartz, on the other hand does at first seem to change when polished, but over time ( a year or two) it appears to ‘recover’ and returns almost to exactly the same energy it once had before it was polished – but it does lose its Solar Energy channel and that never returns.

So there’s two examples that show one change and another… The reason why there is not just one change for all minerals is because they all belong to different evolutionary groups within the Mineral Kingdom; just as we have different animal groups (mammals, fish, insects, birds etc) in the Animal Kingdom – so too it is the same with the minerals.

In the Mineral Kingdom, there are 7 groups. Generally speaking those crystals and stones near the bottom of the ascending evolutionary groups appear to suffer the worst damage when polished and those near the ‘top’ appear to more or less, recover completely. Having said that – in my opinion, it is always a better choice to use the natural over the polished – that way you can only benefit.

So the short answer is yes, the energies of crystals with points do often behave differently when they are polished.

Kind regards

Apollo

Hi Apollo, Thank you for your most interesting answer. Does the solar energy channel play a big role in the healing qualities of crystals?

For example, if a crystal is to be used for healing, is it important that the solar energy channel is present for maximum healing energy to be emitted from the crystal?

I use a lot of stones in my healing work with essences, have you conducted any research into the energy emitted from stones?

Well actually the solar channel makes no difference to the therapeutic qualities directly - but it does have a part to play...

The solar channel acts to bring in that type of energy inside the crystal (the channel goes in to the point on crystals) for the benefit of the residing Monad (the 'life spark / primitive soul' of the mineral) - as effectively it gains sustenance from the solar energy. Once it has done so - it combines this energy with other surrounding environmental subtle energies and then changes this 'mixture' into the actual 'mineral energy' of that particular stone & emits it away from itself. A poor but adequate mirror can be the petrol and then the exhaust fumes from a car... You put the petrol energy in and the exhaust gases come out afterwards. The mineral energy is therefore actually a by-product of the entire process; but one that we can benefit from.

I use a lot of stones in my healing work with essences, have you conducted any research into the energy emitted from stones?

Do you mean stones or essences here? - Stones - yes more than 5 years study now - but that's a vast variety of tangential subjects from the one of crystal energies...

A.

Thanks for the great information, Apollo! I'll try to avoid the Congo variety.

In The Crystal Bible, Judy Hall lists ametrine as a mined combination of amethyst and citrine. X

So, Apollo, were you saying that you can actually SEE crystal energy then?

Wow. If so you are very privileged...do you need to meditate to see it? or can you just plain see it, all the time?

I have a hard enough time to even feel it, and Im never sure If I really can feel something or not, or whether Im just kidding myself. I'd love to be able to see it...

carrying on with the fake Citrine thing...

I know there are some other crystals/minerals that get faked, but fake Citrine is the most common one & really gets me going!! There's tons of it on Ebay, and many Crystal shops - and even in Judy Hall's Crystal Bible!! She has a photo of a fake Citrine/ burnt Amethyst labelled as Citrine! AArgh!! It's SUCH bad misinformation, let alone abuse of the crystals and people wishing to work with them!

FAKE :
FAKE :
REAL :

Basically Natural Citrine is white wine coloured, or white-wine with a darker smoky colour NOT burnt orange coloured, which is actually OVEN BAKED AMETHSTS. Even the shape is wrong! :

A natural Citrine is a Clear Quartz crystal which is encountered Iron and heat radiation in growing environment, creating a yellow. So natural Citrines are Quartz crystal shaped - ie long vertical STRAIGHT sides, and six top faces. Amethyst which grow in a geode and are then smashed out (like most Ame points) dont have long straight vertical sides, but taper like a long tooth root - as they have grown in a geode squashed next to others, not jutting out of a cluster/rock. SO the 'fake Citrines' are the wrong colour and shape!! HOW CAN A BAKED AMETHYST HEAL / BALANCE A SOLAR PLEXUS?? (which is what Citrine is good at doing due to it's constituents)...

I'm afraid to say that it's a fact that EVERY "Citrine Geode" (marmalade
coloured small cave) is BAKED AMETHYST. Sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, but i am very keen on fact and education x x x blessings Lol

Hurrah!!! Finally!! Someone else prepared to stand up for genuine citrine's rights!! I've always been able to tell the difference between real and fake as real citrine is not unlike smoky quartz in appearance. It really gets me chuckling/screaming with rage when I see street lamp orange heat treated amethyst being sold as citrine. I mean - come onnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We should start a citrine awareness campaign. 😀

I know there are some other crystals/minerals that get faked, but fake Citrine is the most common one & really gets me going!! There's tons of it on Ebay, and many Crystal shops - and even in Judy Hall's Crystal Bible!! She has a photo of a fake Citrine/ burnt Amethyst labelled as Citrine! AArgh!! It's SUCH bad misinformation, let alone abuse of the crystals and people wishing to work with them!
Citrine is white wine coloured, or white-wine with a darker smoky colour NOT burnt orange coloured, which is actually OVEN BAKED AMETHSTS. Even the shape is wrong! :

A natural Citrine is a Clear Quartz crystal which is encountered Iron and heat radiation in growing environment, creating a yellow. So natural Citrines are Quartz crystal shaped - ie long vertical STRAIGHT sides, and six top faces. Amethyst which grow in a geode and are then smashed out (like most Ame points) dont have long straight vertical sides, but taper like a long tooth root - as they have grown in a geode squashed next to others, not jutting out of a cluster/rock. SO the 'fake Citrines' are the wrong colour and shape!! HOW CAN A BAKED AMETHYST HEAL / BALANCE A SOLAR PLEXUS?? (which is what Citrine is good at doing due to it's constituents)...

I'm afraid to say that it's a fact that EVERY "Citrine Geode" (marmalade
coloured small cave) is BAKED AMETHYST. Sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, but i am very keen on fact and education x x x blessings Lol

Wow, you are angry about this aren't you. I don't agree with a lot of your points though, both Amethyst and Citrine are Quartz and both can come in various shapes and sizes, massive or not, point or not, and of course there is such a thing as natural Citrine geodes too. And have you heard of or seen Madeira Citrine?

What exactly do you think is the different between the chemical composition of Citrine and Amethyst lol?

Hi Crystal -

I'm afraid to say that I know what I speak of as Truth, as I have been in the crystals and mineral trade for years, and share info with friends / professional colleagues all over the world of very knowledgable and sometimes PhD levels.. I have seen hundreds and thousands of crystals / geodes / clusters (so yes I know they come in big and small and a serious array of shapes!) I merely want to educate many who dont even realise this goes on at all... Plus you can find the 'fake Citrine' debate on every mineralogy and many Healing Forums... like these :
:rolleyes:

Agreed, Citrine can occasionally and extremely rarely occur as geodes, I was overly absolute in my original post as I didnt want to confuse the situation further... but it's so rare and 99% of the stuff on the market that looks like baked Amethyst is just that. I have seen it in crystal exhibitions/mineral fairs/trade shows around the world, and similarly have seen and studied a similarly huge number of genuinely natural Citrine crystals... not boasting - just is the case, it's what I do...

re: "What exactly do you think is the differnce between the chemical composition of Citrine & Amethyst lol?"
As I said in my original post: "A natural Citrine is a Clear Quartz crystal which is encountered Iron and heat radiation in growing environment, creating a yellow." I know Citrine and Amethyst are both Quartz which is all SiO2 (Silica Dioxide) but Citrine and Amethyst have subtle inclusions, hence diff colours -
Citrine = SiO2 + minor colloidal Iron Hydrates (Fe3) inclusions and
Amethyst = SiO2 + minor manganese impurities (Mn) and the existence of Iron (Fe4), and the Manganese often leads ot other mineral inclusions in the Ame like Lepidochrosite, and others red/grey iron solids...

Hiya

Can I just say in defense of Judy Hall and the crystal bible, that in the section on citrine, in the table next to where it says rarity, she does state that baked amethyst is passed of as citrine 🙂

Hi Magician

Yeah she does, but also (as far as I remember - and it may be updated in more recent copies ?) she only shows a pic under the description Citrine of one that looks like the baked Ame fakes, and there are no pics of real natural Citrine crystal, I believe. Hope it's not the case / that it has been updated, and I think that the photos are done and chosen by the publishing company in this case, not author, but again am poss wrong.

Hi,I'm new here and very keen to get a natural rough citrine and smoky .
Any supplier , dealer or member manage to get it with a good price please pm or drop me a mail.

Gosh what an interesting thread.

I'm most chuffed that the piece of citrine I have upstairs does tick all the boxes and I had to smile to myself because I wondered why mine looked abit more like a pale smoky quartz rather than this bright burnt orange stuff that keeps getting pushed as citrine and now I know. White wine is a good description actually.

Mind you I'm still having my funny five minutes over that smokey quartz (another thread) I'm not sure is genuine!!!

I'm quite a simple crystal lover (in that I'm not geology knowledgable) so stuff like this is really helpful.

Cheers
Nel 🙂

Could you tell me if this one below is real Citrine or not. The one that cost $70 is the one I'm thinking of getting. Some of the Citrines on this site are so dark yellow that I don't know if they are real CItrine or not.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhh - that's why I'm not experiencing any wealth and prosperity and still working 🙁 by all accounts, I got the flaming burnt orangey type stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (But I do have some proper citrine in my crystal box though - but not placed in my wealth corner) Note to self: when get home remove and place in wealth corner...:cat: ...

Hi all

I have just found this thread and interestingly enough I bought some citrine off ebay and it arrived today and I have a feeling that its fake after reading what you guys have said.

here is an example of the one I bought

So is anyone able to tell me if this is a fake ?:(

Many thanks
Caz

It's cooked amethyst, Caz.

But take a step back from what it is mineralogically speaking and ask yourself 'how does this feel?'. Sometimes we can get so caught up in what a crystal should and shouldn't do that we forget to connect with it and find out how it can help us best.

Regardless of what a mineral is by name and composition, in my humble experience it's the intention and focus we put into them that deliver results for us.

So perhaps we can give some of these burnt fellows a hug and accept them as they are?

Thanks for that Crystal Cub :)...I am new to the fantastic world of crystals so its good to know that I can come on here and gain some knowledge.
Well I am now off to try and find myself some real citrine!!:D

Cazxx