Conversation:
Karma, threefold law. Tomato, tomato 😛 In my opinion, it's all the same thing. Law of attraction, like attracts like. You receive what you send out.
I was trying to distinguish between karma and the law of attraction but I couldn't as both involved energy which is sentient.
I don't really get it. The origin of Karma is (as you say) in Hinduism and can be a pretty nasty belief, shoring up the caste system. As I understand it, the Law of Attraction is part of Theosophy and New Thought Movement - neither of which seems very Wiccan.
I can see how "you reap what you sow" appeals – although I haven’t come across any evidence. I know some shamanic practitioners who consider the situations that arise through on-going soul loss (particularly ancestral soul loss) to be a type of Karma, but I wouldn’t agree.
You don't have to agree, we're each entitled to our religions. And Wicca IS a new age movement based on an old religion as no one knows the specifics.
Is The Law of Attraction the same as 'you reap what you sow'? If so, I'm misunderstanding what I have read of them. (I wouldn't have thought that the New Thought Movement was the same as 'new age' either).
Yes, we can disagree. And my paganism is shamanic rather than wiccan, so I accept you know more about this than I do. But I seem to be confused about the terminology.
In the hope that someone can help me through my confusion, I’ve posted this as a different topic.
Love the title Crowan,
OK, let me try to un-confuse you, though I could just confuse myself 🙂
The Rule of Three:
Very simply:Whatever energy a person puts out into the world, whether positive or negative, will be returned to that person three times. It can get more complex than this and it is different for each Wiccan I would imagine.
Found this which probably explains it better:
The "Harm none" element which was raised in other topic, is one that can be debated. I feel that you are able to perform a spell or working that protects yourself and others without the fear of it being returned by the power of three. Not to act could in fact cause more harm than acting, in which case you would be harming someone. Confused?
It is a decision that only the person in the situation can decide upon. But if I or any of my loved ones were being attacked/threatened I would protect myself and my loved ones whatever way was necessary even if it meant causing harm to the attacker.
I hope that has helped and not confused you more.
Blessed be 🙂
And pulled straight from wiki, the law of attraction:
The law of attraction is a metaphysical belief or theory, that "like attracts like," and that Human perception of what is positive and negative thinking bring about positive and negative perceived results, respectively. According to the law of attraction, the phrase "I need more money" or "I don't have enough money" allows the subject to continue to "need more money" or "not have enough money". If the subject wants to change this they would focus their thoughts on the goal (having more money) rather than the problem (needing more money).
Thank you, Meadowsweet, for your answer and the link. They both made very interesting reading.
I can see that the Rule of Three and the ‘Harm None’ injunction are part of the beliefs of Wicca. I can’t see the same for the Law of Attraction. Your quotation, Finalshine, is exactly what I understood this “law” to be. None of my Wiccan friends have ever spoken of this as part of their belief system. Hence my comments about The New Thought Movement.
I can also see that, using terminology in a rather clarity-free way, some people might equate the Rule of Three with Karma.
Incidently, Finalshine, I didn’t say that I disagreed with you. What I said was:
I know some shamanic practitioners who consider the situations that arise through on-going soul loss (particularly ancestral soul loss) to be a type of Karma, but I wouldn’t agree.
Karma is a Sanskrit word meaning "action" and does mean different things slightly to different people.
As for the three-fold law. This is obviously had been invented by someone. Sorry I don't believe this as some natural law. It sounds too contrived to me.
RP
As for the three-fold law. This is obviously had been invented by someone. Sorry I don't believe this as some natural law. It sounds too contrived to me.
Actually, it sounds contrived to me, as well, but I have no problem with Wiccans believing it - it sounds no more contrived than many things that other religions believe.
But I'm still not seeing where the Law of Attraction comes into Wicca.
Aren't all the "laws" and wording we use contrived?
Surely these different belief systems and laws etc. are just terminology and models to represent something that there is no natural explanation for. It's just a part of communication that people create models to help explain things to others, but inevitably any model can only focus on a limited aspect of that natural thing and not the whole. This is the way science works as well... e.g. we have Newton's laws of motion, which work fine for macroscopic object e.g. the planets and objects moving on them etc., but that model completely falls down when you look at the microscopic quantum world, where a different model is needed, and that model doesn't fit anywhere but the quantum world.
Saying that though, I think taking "three fold law" literally as meaning something will come back to you 3x as much, is perhaps not something that can be measured in any accurate sense. I think (personal opinion) it's meant to be demonstrative of the principle that for every action there will be a re-action and typically that re-action will appear greater in magnitude than the original action... so, as an example, if you cause a person suffering, you will suffer greater than that yourself as you will suffer the guilt of the actions as well as any suffering directed toward you from the person upon you caused suffering (and others effected by their suffering too). A bit like the saying... "if we all had an eye for an eye, we'd all go blind".
All the more reason to aim to act with truth an honesty in all our actions.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
I mentioned the Law of Attraction because it was part of an answer earlier. I'm not trying to understand what it is - I can look that up. I'm trying to understand what others who are using the term mean by it. I've asked several times. I'll assume that no one else knows what they mean by it, either.
Come on you Wiccans out there! Surely someone can answer Crowan?
Okay, to me (and me alone, I may speak on behalf of other wiccans but I'm not saying this is the defining point)
When we send out good magic in the world, we get good back. This is basic karma and law of attraction. There is nothing to say whether magic is good or not, magic is neutral, magic is just intent. However, when you unleash it into the world, every type of energy has its own vibration, and just like a ripple in the pond, it spreads and altars the object of focus. This isn't as malicious as it sounds, if I heal an old lady, she may repay me with kindness. It's cause and effect, law of attraction, karma.
If you don't agree, don't shout me down, these are my personal beliefs and are not open for debate 🙂
I will give you my understanding as someone who works and heals with consciousness.
The law of attraction:
[INDENT]The law of attraction is sound but does not work in the way that it is usually defined, it works through our core way of being, it has nothing to do with judgements, but on the way we are within the fullness of self.
When people use the law of attraction as it is defined, the constant proclamation with our everyday thinking aspect of consciousness that I want something, is actually creating an inner conflict through dissatisfaction and incompleteness within the fullness of self.
[/INDENT]Karma:
[INDENT]Karma is fear driven, it works through judgements and condemnation.
It requires those who embrace it, to not only judge and put themselves down, but it also requires them to judge and put other people down as well, it states that we must work towards someone else's ideals instead of just allowing ourself to be real and true to our authentic self, whilst embracing our life experience in an open and nonjudgmental way, it forces them to always look back in judgement whilst fearing the future.
[/INDENT]They are both based within consciousness and work with the principle that everything starts and finishes with a thought, but they are not the same thing and do not create the same results within the fullness of self.
The only way that I can perceive them as being similar, is that they both create different inner conflicts rather than creating inner wholeness and harmony within the fullness of self, so both beliefs require transforming and healing within consciousness.