There are other, non-Christian, explanations of attachments. Ones that do not rely on ‘it’s all in your head’.

I’m still interested, scommstech, in why you thought this was the soul of someone dead.

There are other, non-Christian, explanations of attachments. Ones that do not rely on ‘it’s all in your head’.

I’m still interested, scommstech, in why you thought this was the soul of someone dead.

Hi Crowan

At a spiritualist meeting the medium will say that the "contact" they are communicating with is someone who has passed over.
The person in the audience usually recognises the contact. I have recognised who it is that has had a "message" for me. Therefore I can only conclude that the person although not material any more is still in existence, and able to mentally communicate.
I certainly do not believe that I imagined the contact or my mind was being read.
That to me has been the proof that we continue after mortal death. If this continuance is classed as the soul then I accept that understanding.

If you have another explanation, then I would love to hear it.

I personally do not necessarily link soul, spirit, though ETC to religion I think that religion, although commonly connected to a creation, has become too politicalised, where the written word is becoming more important than the truth. And where seen........ the scientific truth

Regards

OK Scomm I’ve kept my Sabbath holy and will now get back to this. :p

I still can't connect this to an attachment though.

Witchcraft is the belief that one mortal personality (termed alive) can control the thought of another. An “attachment” by a “spirit” is the belief that one mortal personality (termed dead) can control the thought of another. Both are only beliefs and can be cast out through the understanding that God is the only power.

To me Jesus did eject troublesome spiritual entities that were trying to control, or attach themselves to their victims mind.

How did Jesus cure those possessed by demons? He must have understood that because God is the only power, the only Creator, the only Mind, and is absolutely good, no other power or mind can possibly exist. Understanding his oneness with the Almighty God, Jesus stood up to demons, not as real beings inhabiting himself or others, but as mental claims that something other than God exists and has power.
[url]CAST OUT DEMONS*/*The Christian Science Journal[/url]

Jesus ejected disease, sin and death too, all by the same method – by understanding the all-power of God, good and the unreality and powerless-ness of anything unlike good. (Not talking about just moral good – but absolute purity and perfection)

Those spiritual entities had to have been created by God, as He is the only creator. Even though they are not the best example of creation, to me creation means eternal…

Right, so according to Scomm, God is therefore responsible for all the evil in the world? His work is not perfect, but sometimes terribly flawed? Therefore God is not omnipotent .

I prefer Mary Baker Eddy’s explanation:

God’s thoughts are perfect and eternal, are substance and Life. Material and temporal thoughts are human, involving error, and since God, Spirit, is the only cause, they lack a divine cause. The temporal and material are not then creations of Spirit. They are but counterfeits of the spiritual and eternal. (Science and Health p 286)

Let’s be clear about one thing Scomm –the real man is the pure reflection of Spirit. This perfect spiritual, eternal IDENTITY of each individual and unique idea of God is as perfect, as pure and as complete as the one Spirit creating and maintaining it. A reflection cannot possess anything that is not in the original.

That is the basis on which we heal in Christian Science. Our eternal spiritual identity (often called our “higher self”) is never touched by the counterfeit mortal dream. It’s when we connect with our real self that healing happens.

Eddy tells us it is the way Jesus healed:

When speaking of God’s children, not the children of men, Jesus said, “The kingdom of God is within you;” that is, Truth and Love reign in the real man, showing that man in God’s image is unfallen and eternal. Jesus beheld in Science the perfect man, who appeared to him where sinning mortal man appears to mortals. In this perfect man the Saviour saw God’s own likeness, and this correct view of man healed the sick. Thus Jesus taught that the kingdom of God is intact, universal, and that man is pure and holy. Man is not a material habitation for Soul; he is himself spiritual. Soul, being Spirit, is seen in nothing imperfect nor material. (Science and Health 476/7)

Vile spirits, attachments, are normally kept out of reach of purer spirits, until they have improved.

Just because a mortal PERSONALITY seems to have left behind its matter body does not mean they have yet lost their mortal beliefs and mortal thinking. There is a good explanation of this in [url]Science and Health 290/291[/url]
Here are some quotes from it;

The sin and error which possess us at the instant of death do not cease at that moment, but endure until the death of these errors. To be wholly spiritual, man must be sinless, and he becomes thus only when he reaches perfection. The murderer, though slain in the act, does not thereby forsake sin. He is no more spiritual for believing that his body died and learning that his cruel mind died not. His thoughts are no purer until evil is disarmed by good. His body is as material as his mind, and vice versa….

…Mortals need not fancy that belief in the experience of death will awaken them to glorified being.

I would recommend Scomm that you have a deep study of the chapter Christian Science versus Spiritualism: [url]Science and Health*/*Christian Science[/url] in order to find the answers to the rest of your questions.

You may also find these articles helpful:

[url]Never born, never dying*/*The Christian Science Journal[/url]

[url]Communication with the departed?*/*The Christian Science Journal[/url]

And:

Since my mother had passed on, what could account for the currents of thought the spiritualist had picked up on? I wondered. Mrs. Eddy’s statement “Though individuals have passed away, their mental environment remains to be discerned, described, and transmitted” answered that perfectly (Science and Health p ). To me that meant that those who think they are communicating with the dead are actually discerning the mental environment—the atmosphere of thought—left behind by those who have died......

I came to realize that while the deceased cannot return to earth, we can trust God to continuously bless them and guide them to the light of Truth. And I saw that despite the fact that the purported messages from my mother were typical of what her earthly personality might have uttered, only her spiritual selfhood was real, and God could be completely counted on to reveal to her that true selfhood.
[url]Genuine spirituality[/url]

Love and peace,

Judy

OK Scomm I’ve kept my Sabbath holy and will now get back to this. :p

Right, so according to Scomm, God is therefore responsible for all the evil in the world? His work is not perfect, but sometimes terribly flawed? Therefore God is not omnipotent .

Just because a mortal PERSONALITY seems to have left behind its matter body does not mean they have yet lost their mortal beliefs and mortal thinking. There is a good explanation of this in [url]Science and Health 290/291[/url]

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Judy,

Is it possible that you can present one idea or point of view at a time. I know that you have volumes of information but I get data overload and prefer dealing with one topic at a time, rather than having to scroll up and down all the time to try and get continuity. I am also not very good ( actually hopeless ) at sequencing quotes as you seem to be.

Right, so according to Scomm, God is therefore responsible for all the evil in the world? His work is not perfect, but sometimes terribly flawed? Therefore God is not omnipotent .

Judy I am not saying this..................

What I am saying is that when our true identity, the spirit, or if you want to call it the soul, has left the body, or ( illusion of body ) if that is how it needs to be seen, it is almost certainly not yet demonstrating the pure level of spirituality that it is capable of.

That does not make it evil...............(bear in mind that evil is just a man made definition, an opinion only ) The soul, or personality is just undeveloped, it has not spiritually blossomed, which is similar to what Mrs Eddy is saying in the next quotation of yours

Just because a mortal PERSONALITY seems to have left behind its matter body does not mean they have yet lost their mortal beliefs and mortal thinking. There is a good explanation of this in [url]Science and Health 290/291[/url]

Actually I don't think that you can say a mortal personality has left behind its mortal body...............It is the spiritual identity that leaves behind it's mortal body, or illusion of body

Regards
Scommstech.

Hi Judy,

Is it possible that you can present one idea or point of view at a time. I know that you have volumes of information but I get data overload and prefer dealing with one topic at a time, rather than having to scroll up and down all the time to try and get continuity. I am also not very good ( actually hopeless ) at sequencing quotes as you seem to be.

Sorry Scomm, but I have a very big workload and when I get into something, I'll just deal with it and then want to move on. I've spent hours researching and praying about my answers to you and really can't afford to any more at the moment. All the answers are in Science and Health for you to find yourself. Also, why don't you print out all the articles I've linked for you and I'm sure they will help.

Love and peace,

Judy

Everything I read says there are 2 emotions: fear and love.

Darkness is the absence of light.

Cold is the absence of heat.

FEAR....................LOVE
DARKNESS..........LIGHT
COLD....................HEAT

Those on the right can not coexist with those on the left.

This is all I've got. I felt I should post it. Maybe it means something to this discussion.

At a spiritualist meeting the medium will say that the "contact" they are communicating with is someone who has passed over.
The person in the audience usually recognises the contact. I have recognised who it is that has had a "message" for me. Therefore I can only conclude that the person although not material any more is still in existence, and able to mentally communicate.
I certainly do not believe that I imagined the contact or my mind was being read.
That to me has been the proof that we continue after mortal death. If this continuance is classed as the soul then I accept that understanding.
If you have another explanation, then I would love to hear it.
I personally do not necessarily link soul, spirit, though ETC to religion I think that religion, although commonly connected to a creation, has become too politicalised, where the written word is becoming more important than the truth. And where seen........ the scientific truth
Regards

I certainly do not wish to imply that such attachments are never a soul (and I agree there could be discussion about the word) that has died/passed over. I simply meant that there are other types of attachment as well. Some are spirits under a contract and some are nature spirits who are lost and/or seeking help. Some are parts of a person’s soul where that person is still alive.
(I appreciate that a lot of what we discover through shamanism is at odds with what spiritualists teach, particularly in the area of what happens after death. Therefore I’m a little cautious about saying too much, as people can be offended where there is no intention to offend.)

Therefore I’m a little cautious about saying too much, as people can be offended where there is no intention to offend.)

I personally have never felt offended by what others may have posted, even when I've disagreed or not understood.

I actually wish that more people would say what they think. There's many a pearl of wisdom missed because of the fear of rejection. I have always learned form these post, even if I sometimes get it wrong. Nobody, in my opinion knows it all, so there is probably some grain of truth awaiting to be shared, no matter where our beliefs lie.

Regards

I personally have never felt offended by what others may have posted, even when I've disagreed or not understood.

I actually wish that more people would say what they think. There's many a pearl of wisdom missed because of the fear of rejection. I have always learned form these post, even if I sometimes get it wrong. Nobody, in my opinion knows it all, so there is probably some grain of truth awaiting to be shared, no matter where our beliefs lie.
Regards

It’s not a fear of rejection. It’s more the fact that there’s no point carrying on a conversation when the other person has stopped listening.

That any attachment is a dead human is by no means certain. The majority aren’t. Even if it is, simply sending it on its way is not going to get it to where it should be. If it was lost and confused (which is what causes it to attach in the first place) then that isn’t going to change simply because we wish it so.

That any attachment is a dead human is by no means certain. The majority aren’t. Even if it is, simply sending it on its way is not going to get it to where it should be. If it was lost and confused (which is what causes it to attach in the first place) then that isn’t going to change simply because we wish it so.

Hi
I would agree with the bit about getting it to where it should go, but can you expand on the idea that it may not be a dead human.

Regards.

I know this seems too simple and truthfully I have not studied the thread in detail. I do not want to give energy to negativity. Which I believe is what is done when you ponder over it and discuss it.

Power is given to it by writing about it and now all kinds of people will read this and fear spreads.

This topic is fear motivated. The more energy given to it, the more power it has. It can be created even if it is not real.

Is it too simple to fill yourself with light and possitive energy? Play uplifting music (even while you sleep). Read books and play dvds filled with possitive messages.

This journey is difficult at times. It can be hard to maintain a possitive state of mind. It is my daily struggle. But if we focus on our mission...really focus? There is no room for negativity. It will be uncomfortable with us and seek another host. If that is what is happening. But again...I don't want to go there and give it energy.

Example: watch cable news, shows about the sorted things in life, feel the angst and send more negitive energy into the world? OR turn off the TV and focus on what you can do to make the world a little better place? Sending possitive energy into the world.

Too simplistic...I know. But if enough people are bringing possitive energy to the world? Could it have an effect?

When Louise Hay had cancer (and self cured) she had the option to visualize her body fighting the cancer. She choose instead to visualize pure spring water washing away the cancer gently sending it on it's way. Our visualization can be possitive and still be effective.

"It's only fear. It doesn't belong here with me. If it is karmic? I release it. It is gone. I am OK. Nothing can harm me. The universe loves me and protects me. I am filled with light and joy. I am surrounded by a shell of white light. I am safe. I am love. I am loved."

Let that be your visualization. Don't entertain anything else. Nothing can interfere with your mission.

Fear and love can not dwell in the same space.

Everything I read says there are 2 emotions: fear and love.

Darkness is the absence of light.

Cold is the absence of heat.

FEAR....................LOVE
DARKNESS..........LIGHT
COLD....................HEAT

Those on the right can not coexist with those on the left.

This is all I've got. I felt I should post it. Maybe it means something to this discussion.

Just popping in briefly to say how impressed I've been with your clear thinking and wise word gulfcoastmss! I particularly loved the above - in as much as you've not said (as most people do) that darkness is the opposite of light and coldness the opposite of heat etc. Neither darkness or coldness (or fear) are any actual thing - they are, as you say, simply the absence of what is true and pure and powerful. So if it's dark, you don't go around trying to shout it away or get a cricket bat to fight it - you simply turn on the light. Of course, all the time you believe that you are stuck in the dark, it has the power to harm you - you could fall over or bump into something. But there is no need to fear darkness because the solution is so simple.

What wise words too about protection. It's a very active thing. Mary Baker Eddy (whose teachings I study) once wrote in a similar way to her students:

...keep your minds so filled with Truth and Love, that sin, disease, and death cannot enter them. It is plain that nothing can be added to the mind already full. There is no door through which evil can enter, and no space for evil to fill in a mind filled with goodness. Good thoughts are an impervious armor; clad therewith you are completely shielded from the attacks of error of every sort. And not only yourselves are safe, but all whom your thoughts rest upon are thereby benefited. (Miscellany 210)

And I so agree with this too:

It’s not a fear of rejection. It’s more the fact that there’s no point carrying on a conversation when the other person has stopped listening.

Love and peace,

Judy

This topic is fear motivated. The more energy given to it, the more power it has. It can be created even if it is not real.

Hi gulfcoastms

I don't see searching for the truth as being based on fear....................Of course one should always think positively, but learning the science behind something is not causing it to become at odds with harmony.

There have recently been some wonderful discoveries as regards the universe and its creation. These discoveries seem to support a principle described as metaphysics which is what Mrs Eddy of Christian Science describes as the key to healing.

So getting the "scientific" conformation, of metaphysics offers the opportunity for those who have problems with "positive thinking" and a faith based approach, to mathematically as it were progress in their understanding.

This is not fear, it is a search for understanding..............Unfortunately some will have to be prepared to expand outside their comfort zone............Not an easy thing to do.

I would agree with the bit about getting it to where it should go, but can you expand on the idea that it may not be a dead human.
Regards.

It might be a soul part of a person who is still alive – and possibly does not know that it is. These soul parts go when we do things or have things happen to us that our soul cannot cope with. Part goes so that the rest can survive. Such a part could be anything from a tiny sliver to the majority of the soul (as happens when the person is in a coma or has severe dementia). If it is a large part, it may well believe that it is the whole person.
Or it could be a body-soul that has not realised it is dead and has accompanied a family member or a friend home from hospital, hospice or sometimes cemetery.
It could be a spirit brought in under contract – either a contract with the soul of the person concerned (“If I haven’t learned this lesson in my next life by the time I am 50, then I contract to have a debilitating condition”, or something like.), or a contract with someone else in order to harm or manipulate the person. That sounds scary, but is actually one of the simplest to deal with.
It could be a displaced nature spirit. In this case it is often lost and seeking help. People who do spiritual work outdoors often pick up this kind of attachment. Or it could be a spirit – usually a nature spirit – that has been bound into a spell that has been put on the person. This is rare, but I have seen far more recently. This is partly as people whose background is from Asia and who may be second or third generation British have moved away from the cultural ways that understand such things, and partly because there are more Eastern Europeans in the country and this form of magic has lingered there longer than it did here.
There are other types (we refer to all of them as “intrusions”) but the above are the main ones that may be able or prepared to communicate.
I have come across spirits who, if the person is convinced that the spirit is a ‘guide’, will do their best (in their confusion) to fulfil that role.
I’ve never come across anything that I could term ‘evil’ – but that is partly because I don’t buy into good/evil dichotomies. The shaman is, traditionally, a person with ‘one foot in either world’, a negotiator, and will try to help equally the intrusion and the person with the intrusion.

It might be a soul part of a person who is still alive – and possibly does not know that it is. These soul parts go when we do things or have things happen to us that our soul cannot cope with. Part goes so that the rest can survive. Such a part could be anything from a tiny sliver to the majority of the soul (as happens when the person is in a coma or has severe dementia). If it is a large part, it may well believe that it is the whole person.
Or it could be a body-soul that has not realised it is dead and has accompanied a family member or a friend home from hospital, hospice or sometimes cemetery.
It could be a spirit brought in under contract – either a contract with the soul of the person concerned (“If I haven’t learned this lesson in my next life by the time I am 50, then I contract to have a debilitating condition”, or something like.), or a contract with someone else in order to harm or manipulate the person. That sounds scary, but is actually one of the simplest to deal with.
It could be a displaced nature spirit. In this case it is often lost and seeking help. People who do spiritual work outdoors often pick up this kind of attachment. Or it could be a spirit – usually a nature spirit – that has been bound into a spell that has been put on the person. This is rare, but I have seen far more recently. This is partly as people whose background is from Asia and who may be second or third generation British have moved away from the cultural ways that understand such things, and partly because there are more Eastern Europeans in the country and this form of magic has lingered there longer than it did here.
There are other types (we refer to all of them as “intrusions”) but the above are the main ones that may be able or prepared to communicate.
I have come across spirits who, if the person is convinced that the spirit is a ‘guide’, will do their best (in their confusion) to fulfil that role.
I’ve never come across anything that I could term ‘evil’ – but that is partly because I don’t buy into good/evil dichotomies. The shaman is, traditionally, a person with ‘one foot in either world’, a negotiator, and will try to help equally the intrusion and the person with the intrusion.

Hi Crowan,

Thanks for this information. Some if it seems to fall in line with Spiritualism and some of it is beyond me, but there is a lot of spiritual logic there. I know nothing of the shaman, but they do seem to be persons of value..

I think that there is so much that we are just beginning to get some form of understanding on, and it is a shame that many people try to pigeon hole ideas and will only accept the idea if it fits their particular understanding.

I personally think that all the answers out there, and they can come from all directions so we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Regards

Ponder for a moment...the law of attraction in regards to an unpleasant or negitve attachment.

How your thinking could be causing what is being manifested in your life?

The one thing in life that we have power over is our thinking. From experience I understand that it doesn't feel like it sometimes. But it is in our power to control our thinking and manifest what we want to be in our lifes.

Believe it and it will be true.

Ponder for a moment...the law of attraction in regards to an unpleasant or negitve attachment.

Certainly if you regard attachments as "unpleasant" or "negative" and treat them as such, they - like anyone - are more likely to behave in an aggressive manner.
If you treat them as beings that need help, with compassion, then you are likely to have a more pleasant encounter, and a more sucessful outcome.

unity of being

From the perspective of unity the experiences you describe would have less significance because you need not identify with them as having any substance. From the reality of unity you have no existence apart from the one which is this unity. For anyone who's interested in the universal message of love and the unity of being why not take a look at the Rumi Festival this August 2 - 4th in the beautiful Scottish Borders rumifestival.org. There will be opportunities to discuss such matters with many like-hearted people.