They missed out the one about letting all your friends know how spiritual you are.:);)
They missed out the one about letting all your friends know how spiritual you are.:);)
Ah that would be coming from the ego though! 
However, without ego there is no "you" (or "me") to be spiritual. Or to have any sort of consciousness, ascended or not.
However, without ego there is no "you" (or "me") to be spiritual. Or to have any sort of consciousness, ascended or not.
This is a common misunderstanding, i.e. that spiritualised people want to rid of ego. Not so. Many ancient spiritual teachings speak of minimising the ego so that our soul can shine through.
Whilst we are alive we will always have an ego. We are mind (ego), body and spirit.
Ego = self, soul = self, spirit = self, c awareness = self, insight = self, it is all self.
A self imposed egotistical judgmental belief that we are lesser, unworthy, impure and need to be purer, greater or more spiritual, is just a judgmental belief that we choose to create surrounding self, so that we can experience self depreciation and low self esteem within our life experience, just the same as an egotistical belief that we are now more spiritual, greater, better, purer is just a judgmental belief that we choose to create surrounding self, so that we can experience self inflation within our life experience.
Non of this has any bearing upon what we actually are. 😉
Ego = self, soul = self, spirit = self, c awareness = self, insight = self, it is all self.
A self imposed egotistical judgmental belief that we are lesser, unworthy, impure and need to be purer, greater or more spiritual, is just a judgmental belief that we choose to create surrounding self, so that we can experience self depreciation and low self esteem within our life experience, just the same as an egotistical belief that we are now more spiritual, greater, better, purer is just a judgmental belief that we choose to create surrounding self, so that we can experience self inflation within our life experience.
Non of this has any bearing upon what we actually are. 😉
You equate self improvement with low self esteem and that is just not always the case!!! There are degrees of betterment but I see this is alien to your concept of accepting self as it is. As previously mentioned (on another thread), if I did as you say and just accepted my clinical depression, I would now be in a very sorry state indeed. Self improvement seems to have a peculiarly negative connotation to you that I find baffling. Certain matters could benefit from being addressied not accepted....I would have thought that much is obvious.
The very words you use "self imposed egotistical judgmental belief" are all harshly negative, inappropriate judgements as to the spiritual path. Egotistical is glorifying in ego..i.e. not pertaining to the spirit.
I am aware that what we are, in essence, is spirit. 🙂
My understanding of what Paul says (and I could, of course, be wrong about this) is that you could simply accept that you don't need to be depressed.
Surely judging something to be "harshly negative" is, in itself, judgemental and the very opposite of the surrender talk about in the other thread.
My understanding of what Paul says (and I could, of course, be wrong about this) is that you could simply accept that you don't need to be depressed.
Surely judging something to be "harshly negative" is, in itself, judgemental and the very opposite of the surrender talk about in the other thread.
Yes I am judgemental Crowan and have no problem with it. I view that we all judge but some are in denial! 😉 To have opinions is not taboo to me. I am inclined to call it as I see it since I am authentic. I am not judging Paul - just commenting on his perceptions...see the difference? So now you are appraising spiritual surrendering? Are you sure you understand it?
Depression is a passive state already...accepting it would make no impact/change. Some conditions need treatment/direction of some description...trust me on this - I speak from direct experience.
Hi Amy
My thoughts on being depressed or whatever fancy label is placed upon that way of being, is that it is not the clinical depression that is the manifesting because of an inner divisional conflict that often arises through self rejection or self hate, loathing etc that requires acceptance, that has already been given, hence to continuation of the manifestation of disharmony, depression like any other emotional response is not a passive state, it requires constant reinforcement of the way of being (which is why it is so draining) in order to keep manifesting it in the now or current moment in time.
It is the same scenario as any other inner divisional conflict, it requires self acceptance of the aspects of self that are being judged to be wrong, impure, inferior etc, as that will heal the inner divisional conflicts, so that the depression or whatever other response is being created no longer manifests in direct response to the self judgments that are creating them.
Hi Amy
My thoughts on being depressed or whatever fancy label is placed upon that way of being, is that it is not the clinical depression that is the manifesting because of an inner divisional conflict that often arises through self rejection or self hate, loathing etc that requires acceptance, that has already been given, hence to continuation of the manifestation of disharmony, depression like any other emotional response is not a passive state, it requires constant reinforcement of the way of being (which is why it is so draining) in order to keep manifesting it in the now or current moment in time.
It is the same scenario as any other inner divisional conflict, it requires self acceptance of the aspects of self that are being judged to be wrong, impure, inferior etc, as that will heal the inner divisional conflicts, so that the depression or whatever other response is being created no longer manifests in direct response to the self judgments that are creating them.
I wonder if you have ever been clinically depressed Paul? There isn't a lot of thought involved....more one of being swamped by a pervading mood/energy that is overwhelming. In my case, I find it hard to put one foot in front of the other, i.e. to walk was physically (suddenly) very difficult to do. Acceptance was involved - surrender in fact - since I was too at a loss to even contemplate a way out. Luckily, my circumstance at the time provided a helpful lifeboat. So acceptance was absolutely useless for me in that condition.
So now you are appraising spiritual surrendering? Are you sure you understand it?.
Probably not, in your view.
I will say, however, that there is a world of difference between judging something and being judgemental about it.
I have not said what I consider to be the causes of depression, so not much point in arguing about it really.
Probably not, in your view.
I will say, however, that there is a world of difference between judging something and being judgemental about it.
I have not said what I consider to be the causes of depression, so not much point in arguing about it really.
Yes I do know the difference Crowan...in fact I started a thread on it. "Judgement & Opinions" in this spirituality section. 😉
I trust you see how judgemental you are also on this forum, so, in a sticky position to criticise yeah?
I trust you see how judgemental you are also on this forum, so, in a sticky position to criticise yeah?
No.
Hi Amy
Yes I have experienced most things in my life experience, so yes I understand how we create our different ways of being and the manifestations of our thought patterns and beliefs, what I was saying about surrender was that the thing that created the depression needed to be surrendered. 🙂
Hi Amy
Yes I have experienced most things in my life experience, so yes I understand how we create our different ways of being and the manifestations of our thought patterns and beliefs, what I was saying about surrender was that the thing that created the depression needed to be surrendered. 🙂
Yes I understand that. I thought you were talking about accepting the situation though? That would have made zilch difference, i.e no impact. Indeed, it was having accepted a situation that led to the depression, i.e. acknowledging the reality.
No Amy
My understanding is that our thoughts create or orchestrate our life experience and our general state of health and well being, so whenever we lay a judgment on something outward that is being created from within, then that judgment is reflected back into self to create inner disharmony.
We are taught all sorts of things, but we are not taught about consciousness, personal responsibility, the cost of being judgmental, how our underlying thought patterns and beliefs directly effects us, our environment, our relationship with self and others, our general state of health and well being, as well as our life experience.
No Amy
My understanding is that our thoughts create or orchestrate our life experience and our general state of health and well being, so whenever we lay a judgment on something outward that is being created from within, then that judgment is reflected back into self to create inner disharmony.
We are taught all sorts of things, but we are not taught about consciousness, personal responsibility, the cost of being judgmental, how our underlying thought patterns and beliefs directly effects us, our environment, our relationship with self and others, our general state of health and well being, as well as our life experience.
Paul...not everything is about judgement!!! Sometimes there is direct observation of what life throws at you and hence it becomes a question of how you deal with it.
For instance, my clinical depression was caused by my action on finding out what my boyfriend (who I was deeply in love with) had done. I knew he wasn't loyal on a sexual level but when I found out he had tricked me financially it was the last straw. That is not something you do even to a friend, much less a lover...is that a judgement? I think it is what people would generally regard as a normal yardstick. (Granted most would not tolerate sexual infidelity but I had only recently discovered that).
I had to do the right thing and finish with him....that caused the spiral downwards since I was still in love with him.
Hi Amy
Unfortunately, yes, you have clearly outlined the judgments that were used to create the inner divisional conflicts that resulted in the manifestation of your pain and suffering that went way beyond the end of the relationship, which should have been the end.
Would you like to switch to PM to discuss this or are you happy to discus this on an open forum?
Yes Paul - if you could PM me to explain where judgements came into the scenario I depicted. Thank you.