On the thread Bad Luck, we started getting bogged down with curses and even old theology(!). I really didn’t want to start a crossfire when what moogyboobles needs is help, so decided to start a new thread here. I am aware that this is the Spirituality thread and that many of you here prickle at Bible quotes etc, but if you wonderful "light workers" only realised just how influenced you are by old theology, you would drop some of your limiting beliefs like a hot brick!
This is going to be a long thread, but I’ll put it into three parts. Old theology, the "law" of opposites and curses.
Old Theology 🙁
ORGINAL: Vonski
Even God puts you to the test by having some challenges with his counterpart Satan. Just read the book of Job - Old Testament. Call it what you like - curse, test etc.
Law of opposites: For everything good is something bad. God - Devil, Blessings - Curse etc.
The book of Job is brilliant Vonski – but it’s an imaginary fable. The author was delving into the age-old questions – and he comes up with some inspired answers, like these:
"Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict". (Job 37:23) and at the moment of spiritual illumination: "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." (Job 42:5)
Job is a wonderful bit of theatre to read and ponder, but it’s from the perspective of mortal beliefs and age-old questions. It’s a reflection of the way that God was perceived by the ancients, where God was no the only power (as in Genesis 1) but there is another power, called Satan (or devil or evil)
The Bible has recipe for all healing, it has the answers to all suffering, but only when we find its spiritual meaning, the inspired Word of God that runs all through it, in the accounts of the triumph of Spirit over matter. We do not find answers when we buy into ages-old superstitions, man-made theories, mistakes and in particular the wrong idea of what God is! Suffering, lack, disharmony and evil have been around for thousands of years. Jesus was able to demonstrate that it can be eliminated, but the power and authority over material so-called "law" that he so fully embodied was largely lost sight of after Christianity became organised after AD313.
Mary Baker Eddy wrote : "The foundation of mortal discord is a false sense of man's origin." (Science and Health p 262) The Bible begins and ends with perfection and harmony (Gen 1 and Rev 21/22) Evil enters the scene in the allegory of Adam and Eve, (which contradicts every spiritual point in Gen 1.) It is man’s attempt to explain how evil came into the world with its corresponding wrathful depiction of a deity who sends punishment and suffering) and has sadly been accepted into all three Abrahamic faiths, Judaism, Christianity and Islam and has thus influenced the thinking of countless generations all over the world. I go into detail about this on my thread "A spiritual view of Genesis" on the Christianity pages.
Jesus overturned so many of the old Jewish theological traditions and beliefs. He proved God’s unconditional love over and over again (while still insisting on obedience to the two great commandments).
For instance, in Genesis 3, Jehovah curses Eve for her disobedience and says: "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;" (the origin of the term ‘curse’ for menstruation), yet, the purity and divinity of Jesus instantaneously healed the woman who had "an issue of blood twelve years."
Paul too has some interesting things to say about this allegory in I Corinthians 15, especially this: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Yet, orthodox Christianity still clings to this idea of being born in "original sin" and cursed to a life of suffering and to a changeable, anthropomorphic Jehovah who sends suffering either as a punishment or as a test.
The "law" of opp
RE: Negative power/bad luck/curses
Hello Judy,
Because I use some bits of the bible as an "argument" it doesn't determine my believe or my opinions. I have given this as an answer and reminder to a thread that used God etc as an argument.
The book of Job is brilliant Vonski – but it’s an imaginary fable. The author was delving into the age-old questions – and he comes up with some inspired answers, like these:
but if you wonderful "light workers" only realised just how influenced you are by old theology, you would drop some of your limiting beliefs like a hot brick!
Don't brush of everything and everybody with the same paint Judy. I am not "influenced by Old Theology but use it for argument's sake. Once I have finnished reading the "Koran". I'll start using that too!
Whose law Vonski? Good’s law? Love’s law? Or man’s belief in material law?
Scientific Law and figure of speech.
Proof to us that there is something that hasn't got an opposite?
Heat does not balance cold. Cold does not exist – it is simply the absence of heat (that is a scientific fact) Heat DESTROYS cold – it does not balance it.
Heat is not the opposite of cold but warmth is.
You heat up something (action) and you freeze something (action).
We all know that the Sun is a time bomb and will not shine forever. If the sun dissapears in this dimension. Darkness will settle.
Like I said, "figure of speech" Science is only giving facts to things they can proof until they have proofed something new, that something new will not be recognised until then.
Don't you think that we are getting a little to nitty gritty about how we express ourselves on this forum? Especially if we are trying to read into something just to find something?
Jesus overturned so many of the old Jewish theological traditions and beliefs. He proved God’s unconditional love over and over again (while still insisting on obedience to the two great commandments).
Indeed, a great man he is! However, he was and still is a Jew. the people of Israel - God's chosen people and reluctantly healed people that weren't jewish.
Again when it comes to discussions like this you get into which belief is right or wrong?
Paganism, Islam, Christianity, Judism, Wiccans?
I prefer to keep an open mind but I do use arguments from the ones I know something about and not from the ones I don't.
After all, we are all human quoting mainly other human quotes, known or unkown, true or untrue.
Vonski
RE: Negative power/bad luck/curses
Dear Judy
I really enjoyed reading the whole post above.
if you wonderful "light workers" only realised just how influenced you are by old theology, you would drop some of your limiting beliefs like a hot brick!
I totally agree 😉
Dear Vonski
However, he was and still is a Jew. the people of Israel - God's chosen people and reluctantly healed people that weren't jewish.
All are GODs chosen people anyone who wrote otherwise had their own agenda.
Jesus healed all willingly, loving and unconditionally. He believed in equality for all and unity. It was this equality that was sold to be the British pagans which is the reason that they converted to Christianity.
Again when it comes to discussions like this you get into which belief is right or wrong? Paganism, Islam, Christianity, Judism, Wiccans?
Well there is no right or wrong once one has gone beyond duality, and at the core of the teachings of Jesus and his new convenant IS oneness. If you wish to find the heart of Islam I recommend that you study the mystical Sufi's.
we are all human quoting mainly other human quotes, known or unknown, true or untrue.
I applaud your serious in-depth research of scripture. 😀
However it is important for us to remember that the old theology of the OT has helped to create disease through its promotion of sin, fear, evil and revenge. So we can be consciously aware of what credibility we give to these outdated doctrines. We can be consciously aware of what energy we send out to the universe and group consciousness in thought, word and deed. I think we discussed this in depth on the Natural Disasters thread on this forum.
Love beyond measure
Kim xx
RE: Negative power/bad luck/curses
Hi Kim,
[He believed in equality for all and unity. It was this equality that was sold to be the British pagans which is the reason that they converted to Christianity.
/quote]Uhm, I think some pagans will used the word "forced" to convert to Christianity. History tells us that many pagancelebrations have been "transformed" into christian celebrations. Churches have been build on pagan places of worship etc.
People under duress will jump different ways.
In the second world war a lot of jewish people "converted" to christianity in order to save their lives and their families. A more recent "religous" conflict is former Yugoslavia.
I used the word "reluctantly" as some passages in the NT are not as clear as glass the way the deed is presented (Samaritans & Slaves) I'll look it up to give you the chapter etc.
I applaud your serious in-depth research of scripture.
Don't know how to take this but, who made the scriptures?
Apart from the commandments (which we don't know for sure if it was Moses who put the commandments down or God as there were not witnesses)not one of the God's has been sitting behind a piece of paper, type-writer or computer, engraved it instone,etc. to explain their teachings or commandmentsin each and every language. All done by human beings.
Vonski
RE: Negative power/bad luck/curses
Dear Vonski
Well I recommend that everyone who chooses to read the bible investigates the history of its compilation and does comparative studies with other texts eg the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library for the fuller picture.
History tells us that many pagan celebrations have been "transformed" into christian celebrations. Churches have been build on pagan places of worship etc.
Yes I agree
being love
Kim xx