Everyone,
I didn't want to post this in 'pararnormal' as I don't think it is. A discussion on another forum has touched up the possibility/probability that when we are close to passing from this life, we are 'helped' on our way by kindly spirits/angels. As I said on that forum, my mum was helped on her way by a kindly angel. Has anyone else had such an experience when dealing with a loved on about to pass?
Patsy.
What is (in your opinion, of course) a "kindly angel"? What exactly is the "helped on her way"? (After all, many souls do not find their way without problems.)
Since Paranormal means experiences that lie outside "the range of normal experience or scientific explanation" (Wikipedia) or indicates phenomena understood to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure, I would say that this is what your post covers.
What is (in your opinion, of course) a "kindly angel"? What exactly is the "helped on her way"? (After all, many souls do not find their way without problems.)
Since Paranormal means experiences that lie outside "the range of normal experience or scientific explanation" (Wikipedia) or indicates phenomena understood to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure, I would say that this is what your post covers.
No, it's not paranormal. To me, it's entirely normal.
If you had seen the angel, you'd have known how kindly it was and I know mum's fine.
I didn't say you were wrong about the "angel" and I'm glad your Mum's fine. I asked because I was interested. Yes, it's clear we disagree on several points (shamanism and spiritualism do tend to clash) but I'm still interested in how you come to your conclusions and I'm afraid that your answer makes it none the clearer.
You might find it "normal". I find going to the land of the dead normal - but most people don't and it is, therefore, outside the "range of normal experience". It's certainly outside the normal range of scientific explanation. Therefore, paranormal.
I didn't say you were wrong about the "angel" and I'm glad your Mum's fine. I asked because I was interested. Yes, it's clear we disagree on several points (shamanism and spiritualism do tend to clash) but I'm still interested in how you come to your conclusions and I'm afraid that your answer makes it none the clearer.
You might find it "normal". I find going to the land of the dead normal - but most people don't and it is, therefore, outside the "range of normal experience". It's certainly outside the normal range of scientific explanation. Therefore, paranormal.
I think I'll leave it here, Crowan. It might be out of scientific experience, but it's for science to catch up.
I do wish disagreement were not interpreted so often as rowing!
I think I'll leave it here, Crowan. It might be out of scientific experience, but it's for science to catch up.
I agree - to me the paranormal is something science cannot yet explain.....where I would differ from you is that while an angelic visitation is one possible explanation, I accept science could find a different one. But I am interested to hear from BOTH of you about why you are both so sure about these experiences which are outside my sphere of normality (Crowan you may find it normal to visit the land of the dead......I don't 🙂 )
Clearly to both of you they are very real........a reality I wish I could accept but my scientific brain rebels......
A shamanic journey is made in a semi-trance state, induced (usually) by monotonous noise such as drumming. In this state the shaman's soul goes, with helper spirits who are good friends, to various places in the spirit worlds. When I say "good friends" this is not just that I trust the ones I know (I do) but I have visited their homes, I have been on picnics with them, we have 'hung out' getting to know each other.
And they have taken me to various places, including the land of the dead, and (equally importantly) have brought me back.
Yes, I might be imagining it - but then, I might be imagining this life I am living anyway and I don't lose sleep over that! My experiences hang together and make sense not only in terms of all my experiences but also in terms of other people's experiences on their journeys.
Also I have had many proofs that what my spirits have told me about this reality is true.
Of course, I wouldn't expect your "scientific brain" to accept what you yourself have not experienced - I know many others with scientific brains (myself included) who would not have believed it before we had the experiences.
Well my scientific brain has a problem accepting what I do when I give reiki...........but to me that is as real as shamanic journeying is to you. I would LOVE to be able to have an experience of that type that felt as real to me.... but then maybe I am not meant to. .......
Are you going out and trying them? How can you say you are not meant to if you have not tried? That's more a decision that you don't want to.
A very good point 🙂 I HAVE tried in lots of different areas...
I read of people having amazing meditation experiences, getting really clear information when giving a reading, getting amazing insights when healing people. My experiences in all these areas are never as clear cut,and I wonder why/
I am curious about shamanic journeying......but cannot see how it is different to meditation (something we have discussed before if you remember) ....so when you say you 'journey to the house of the dead' I can accept this is TOTALLY real for you....but cannot see how it could be AS real for me.
Unless your meditation includes very clear experiences of such things as walking through wet grass, picnicking with spirit friends and (occasionally) burning your hand and not only feeling that pain but having the mark there later, then a journey is different from a meditation.
You are less able to direct it, for a start.
My meditations don't include clear anything normally 🙁