RE: Foregiveness, enough in itself?
I agree too - it's all about the forgiver.
I've done something I regret, and at the time, forgiveness was offered - I didn't think - in fact I knew - that this could not possibly be sincere, and so declined it, and walked away, with apologies and more. It was the best thing I could have done. The alternative was still to have been being forgiven years later, under forbearance. It's very difficult when you feel controlled in any way by anyone close to you (I appreciate that I have a particular problem with this, but I don't think it's uncommon).
On the other side - I've found it sometimes difficult in my life to forgive, and I've carried resentent around with me. But once I learnt how to let that go, it's been incredibly freeing, and I feel lighter. It is about love, as you say Leonardo.
To sum up - I find it easier to forgive, than be forgiven, although always, if I think I'm in the wrong I will put my neck out and say "mea culpa". In my particular case it's the attitude of "the forgiver" that has made the difference.
Anyway, all done now.
Sharon
RE: Foregiveness, enough in itself?
I too am of the opinion that foregiveness has to be independent of the forgiven, either in the knowledge or ignorance of forgiveness or in the active wanting of that foregiveness.
How many times have we heard of someone, usually deeply in denial of their guilt, who yells at their victim, 'I don't want your foregiveness. It is in these circumstances that the foregiver has to question their own motives. Are they foregiving to please themselves, set themselves up in this world's mind's eye as a 'good person' aka a 'christian' person, (note the small c), or are they doing it because it is the natural thing to do, that they have seen, have empathised with the guilty, have genuinely felt, 'There but for the Grace.....'.
If the latter, then some moral equivalent of Kipling's 'You'll be man my son' springs to mind.
Leo
RE: Foregiveness, enough in itself?
Yes I do think the value of the forgiveness depends on the empathy of the forgiver. I don't see how it has truth otherwise.The hurt can dissipate in time, but that's a forgetting not a forgiving. Or it's superficial as you say.
And as for our much-maligned poet...........our wonderful Kipling........he had a whole lot of soul-searching to do a while after he wrote If, when he sent his only, short-sighted son to the front, on a nod and a wink, and to his death. How do you forgive yourself that?
RE: Foregiveness, enough in itself?
And as for our much-maligned poet...........our wonderful Kipling........he had a whole lot of soul-searching to do a while after he wrote If, when he sent his only, short-sighted son to the front, on a nod and a wink, and to his death. How do you forgive yourself that?
Sharon,
I had no idea, Oh the poor man, the poor boy, what a mess.
Leo
RE: Foregiveness, enough in itself?
My experience of forgiveness is that it begins with forgiving myself for whatever choices I have made in my life. When I have forgiven myself, then there is little left to forgive anyone else for (ie the wrongs that I may perceive as having been done against me initially, are dissipated once I take responsbility for my part in what happened).