The Root cause Of Suffering .

Self.

Self.

Hi Paul .

Many have different thoughts as to what Self Is .

In regards to your answer what does the Self mean to you and how does that relate to being the root cause of all sufferings .

daz .

Hello Nice 1,

I have been doing a lot of self enquiry lateley and come to the conclusion that Self is the part of us that makes decisions and feels our feelings if that makes sense?

I have made many decisons throughout my life that have led to unimaginable suffering but until recently I always thought that same suffering should have not have happened to me because of the circumstances around decisions (which to an extent may be true) such as knowing no better or feeling bullied, coerced etc which is also true but I now know that regardless of the circumstances Self made those decisons, including the decison to feel like a victim because of the circumstaces of the decisons.

So yes Self is the cause of suffering.

Love

Rebecca x

Hi Daz

Many have different thoughts as to what Self Is .

In regards to your answer what does the Self mean to you and how does that relate to being the root cause of all sufferings .

My understanding of Self, is the aspects of consciousness within us, which are creating and maintaining our physical reality right now.

As everything starts and finishes with a thought, then suffering in one out of many ways of being which we can choose to create within self, out of our thought patterns and beliefs.

We do this within self, so that within self, we can know and understand what it is to embrace and experience suffering.

It is the same with everything, we can't fully understand something within self until we have fully embraced it within the fulness of self.

Hi Rebecca

I have been doing a lot of self enquiry lateley and come to the conclusion that Self is the part of us that makes decisions and feels our feelings if that makes sense?

Please consider that feeling are a physiological response to our thought patterns, so our feelings are also something which we create within self (consciousness).

If we think happy thoughts, then we usually create the feelings within self that we associate with happiness, if we think sad thoughts, then we usually create the feelings within self that we associate with sadness, etc. 🙂

As everything starts and finishes with a thought, then suffering in one out of many ways of being which we can choose to create within self, out of our thought patterns and beliefs.

We do this within self, so that within self, we can know and understand what it is to embrace and experience suffering.

It is the same with everything, we can't fully understand something within self until we have fully embraced it within the fulness of self.

Hi Paul,

You seem to have made two contradictory statements.

Over on the "I AM The Way I AM . . . " Thread yesterday, in agreement with Energylz, it seemed that you couldn't comprehend cactuschris's thoughts about suffering, and the benefits of not 'bulldozing it into the ground' (big paraphrase):

If I've misunderstood - how so?

Thanks.

Hi WildStrawberry

You seem to have made two contradictory statements.

Over on the "I AM The Way I AM . . . " Thread yesterday, in agreement with Energylz, it seemed that you couldn't comprehend cactuschris's thoughts about suffering, and the benefits of not 'bulldozing it into the ground' (big paraphrase):

We are discussing things in different way on each forum, when I responded to Chris about Giles post, with

I must agree with Giles, that belief goes against everything that I personally understand, practice and teach concerning healing and personal development.

I do not understand how that belief serves you or the people that you apply it to as healing!

That was not to do with the cause of suffering which I have outlined in this thread, but in the healing of suffering.

Chris is advocating that we should not heal someone's pain and suffering, because it is serving a function to teach them a lesson, but as a healer, to my understanding when someone gets to the point where they need the help of a healer, then they are coming to resolve the inner conflicts which are causing the disharmony and strife within them as soon as possible.

So although I understand how we create and heal things within consciousness (not by 'bulldozing it into the ground' as that is not a responsible way of healing), but by resolving them within the Now. I can not sanction or understand how someone who professes to be a healer, advises people who are looking for healing, that they are required to continue to create and manifest disharmony and disease within self for whatever reason for x-amount of years so they can somehow be healed completely.

To my understanding you do not heal a burnt hand by continually thrusting it into the flames, healing is a positive force which is always applied in a positive manner, so to my understanding since that method is promoting inner disharmony in place of wholeness, it can not be classified as a positive force, so it should not be classified as healing.

I hope that clarifies this for you. 🙂

Hello Nice 1,

I have been doing a lot of self enquiry lateley and come to the conclusion that Self is the part of us that makes decisions and feels our feelings if that makes sense?

I have made many decisons throughout my life that have led to unimaginable suffering but until recently I always thought that same suffering should have not have happened to me because of the circumstances around decisions (which to an extent may be true) such as knowing no better or feeling bullied, coerced etc which is also true but I now know that regardless of the circumstances Self made those decisons, including the decison to feel like a victim because of the circumstaces of the decisons.

So yes Self is the cause of suffering.

Love

Rebecca x

Hi Rebecca

Thanks for being open and sharing that with us .

I can relate to self enquiring for sure . Did you feel that enquiring was an effort or did you feel that there was some kind of auto pilot that was engaged that was almost like an automated process ?

My thoughts on suffering .

I think It Is safe to say that It will be Inevitable that If an Ice lolly Is left out In the sun It will melt . lol . In the same breath when what we are started to experience life as an Individual It was Inevitable that a disconnection of oneness would be felt on some level because of our array of senses that are part of the parcel of our mindful experience In relation to physical life .

Suffering that relates with that disconnection Is the root cause of further sufferings that we endure within life . It’s the domino effect .

For sufferings manifest where there Is an absence of love / what we are . Our senses be It a part of our physical, mental or emotional fields always fall short of making a reconnection happen . We cannot emotionally connect with what we are and we cannot Intellectually figure out how to reconnect so whilst an Individual Is subconsciously reaching out for the reunion of self - sufferings are ongoing .

Many Individuals are now becoming aware that no-thing In life can fill the gap as to what’s missing within their experience even If their life appears to be whole or complete on some level . It’s that Itch you cannot scratch . lol .

So whilst an Individual restricts the self within what I refer to as an ordinary mind state separation will always shine through our senses . That’s why I have mentioned before that our soul Is a slave to our senses, If anything our senses should be a slave to our soul .

Experiencing life with use of our senses within a physical environment whilst functioning In an ordinary mind state Is like being caught In quick sand whist having your feet and hands shackled .

I had never realized that It was possible to experience what we seemingly know as peace or love and yet there remained lying underneath the surface a suffering on an enormous scale .

Having a disconnection or having a lack of Inner union of what we are whilst we are experiencing life within a certain mind - set Is the cause of suffering “It Is the underlying suffering” . It Is our achilles heel . The self Is not the cause of suffering although the self Is all there Is .

daz .

I can relate to self enquiring for sure . Did you feel that enquiring was an effort or did you feel that there was some kind of auto pilot that was engaged that was almost like an automated process

Hello Daz,

No I did not feel it was an effort because it was 'time' if that makes sense? It all fell into place and was quite effortless it feels like the next stage of my journey to wholeness in a sort of inevitable way and a huge piece of the jigsaw which has been missing for a long, long time, but listen to me talking like some kind of Guru lol it's all thanks to Paul Crick (am I allowed to say that on here?).:)

Love

Rebecca XX

Interesting discussion about suffering.
It is also interesting to consider not who is responsible but what is the reason for suffering is.

You see suffering is a bit like pain. There is a very good reason for pain, it alerts us to when there are things amiss, things that we need to pay attention to. There are times when we have paid attention to the pain, and understood the message, and after that it becomes a problem that we can suppress in some way - the pain has done its job. It is a symptom of the cause so we need to heal the cause, but we can also treat the symptom.

So suffering is the same. It has a reason to exist - it is a symptom that is trying to alert us to something - it is wanting us to take an action that will affect the cause and remove the need for the symptom to keep warning us. The very worst thing we can do, just as with pain, is to remove or treat the symptom without dealing with the cause, this will only postpone the eventual need to deal with the cause or even prolong it.

What then are the kind of things that we can do with the cause of suffering? We can change our circumstances, this is what the suffering is asking for. We need to find the cause, examine it, and find a way to deal with it. If it was pain we might try treating the part generating the need for the pain to be warning us, we cannot remove the cause without knowing what it is, (actually occasionally we do remove body parts but only when the situation is understood), we can't just sever the nerves and assume the cause has gone away (imagine if you went to the doctor and said you had a sore finger and he suggested that he just chops it off, no finger, nothing to hurt), so we have to examine and understand the problem, look for the cause and evaluate how best to treat it. Changing our circumstances in some way can permanently relieve the suffering, simply changing our mindset and occluding the suffering is like putting on a blindfold, it does nothing to the suffering except hide it for a while.

Suffering is the same as pain in a way , we need to find the cause, examine it, understand what is going on, look for the options to set it right and stop the need for the message of suffering. This process is a healing process, it involved identification, being able to face the issue, learning to forgive and finally to release.

If the suffering is physical, mental, emotional or spiritual then the way in which we deal with this process of dealing with the cause is different. The process of understanding and dealing with the cause is a learning process, a kind of diagnosis, just as it would be with pain. Severing the cause will appear to stop the suffering, but it will not remove the cause, and eventually the suffering will recur. Until the cause is identified, and the options of treating it understood simply trying to discharge it will only occlude it, and the real process needs to treat it in order to disperse it, there is no shortcut here, but if it done correctly the person will emerge stronger and the cause will be cleared up, the suffering will no longer be needed and will fade away.

Part of the point about this is not that we simply put up with suffering, but that the process of healing is simply that, a process and a natural process at that, just as pain is. Part of the process is to identify the root cause and be able to face it. This alone will take people time, maybe it is a quick part of the process, maybe not, but however long it takes it is a valuable part of the process. To force people to try to shortcut this, or hurry it up does not allow them either the chance to do it fully and properly, or to feel that they are the most important person in the process.

Now Paul says "Chris is advocating that we should not heal someone's pain and suffering, because it is serving a function to teach them a lesson" which is not really right, when they are ready to deal with things they will make a start, part of that might be going to a healer. The difference is that I see that process as one that they go through, it is a learning process and I can help them and at their own rate, whereas Paul says they go to him and he does it, and "as soon as possible". Paul calls it disharmony, but it is part of the song of life, so is it not a judgement that it is disharmonious? Yes- Paul, I advocate that people are healed fully, not simply that their symptoms are treated or that their issues are bulldozed at a rate someone else dictates.

If one has a burned hand then it needs time to heal, perhaps some would advocate that it is treated immediately with painkillers and then it can be used normally as the hurt is hidden, but I would apply a salve, dressings, and kindness (and maybe a cup of tea), and then if needed painkillers, it will take me longer, but the client is the most important person, not me. What is the lesson of a burned hand? Has the pain served its purpose? Only if it is listened to - turning a deaf ear to it and simply applying painkillers serves no useful function - but then if one has no regard for the future the word learning has no meaning - for learning is all about the future.

Let me ask this then - given that suffering is a natural process is it not incredibly judgemental to decide that it is a bad thing?
I think it plays a valuable part of the healing journey, it is not something simply to be avoided, but equally I do not advocate that people do nothing about it and simply put up with it. I have gone through my own processes of healing, and I've emerged a different person, I have seen the value that suffering can play as part of that healing.

love
chris

Hello Chris,

Interesting post your latest one, I have been following this thread from the beginning and my interpretation of what's going on is that Paul & Giles are not saying there is no value in suffering, but that the area of no value is continuing to suffer. From both a personal and professional point of view I can see the value of suffering after all we human's don't learn much about what's important in life while we in a state of bliss and I often find when I meet people who have never suffered much they appear to lack, humility, emotional inteligence and be a but dim when it comes to the ways of the world, but there is no value in wallowing in suffering, labelling yourself with it, there is a huge difference in my opinion in acknowledging sadness about something that may have happened in life, having a cry, eating ice cream in bed for a week or going to therapy if that something is traumatic but being suffering surely isn't a good idea?

Sometimes Chris I get the impression from your posts in this thread that you never consider those who do want their pain and suffering to be 'bulldozed' as quickly and efficiently as possible? I reckon I've done my suffering, I've learned loads it's been a blast but now I don't want it, it served me well but now I have no need of it and to have any risidual issues which cause me any kind of suffering to be bulldozed as quickly as humanly possible right now seems like a blinding idea to me.

Love

Rebecca xx

Hi Daz

My understanding of Self, is the aspects of consciousness within us, which are creating and maintaining our physical reality right now.

Hi Paul .

So what makes up these aspects of consciousness? Would It be like our life experiences that can shape the self? Is that perhaps what you mean?

daz .

Hi Daz

Having a disconnection or having a lack of Inner union of what we are whilst we are experiencing life within a certain mind - set Is the cause of suffering “It Is the underlying suffering” . It Is our achilles heel . The self Is not the cause of suffering although the self Is all there Is .

Would you like to make your mind up if it is one thing or the other, we are either causing the pain and suffering by our thought patterns and beliefs or we are not? or are you just being dualistic!

Hi Chris

I think you might find that suffering is more to do with self, than our circumstances, have you not seen people carry their sufferings around with them from one place or job to the next and one relationship to the next, they might find short term relief from a change in circumstances, but irrespective of where they are or how their circumstances change, until they choose to sort themselves out, the suffering will continue to be manifested by them.

I can relate to self enquiring for sure . Did you feel that enquiring was an effort or did you feel that there was some kind of auto pilot that was engaged that was almost like an automated process

Hello Daz,

No I did not feel it was an effort because it was 'time' if that makes sense? It all fell into place and was quite effortless it feels like the next stage of my journey to wholeness in a sort of inevitable way and a huge piece of the jigsaw which has been missing for a long, long time, but listen to me talking like some kind of Guru lol it's all thanks to Paul Crick (am I allowed to say that on here?).:)

Love

Rebecca XX

I understand that rebecca .

An apple doesn't fall off from the branch until Its ripe .

I agree with the effortless process within self enquiring . Many misunderstand the process as If we are looking for a needle In a haystack and that looking for the self Is futile .

What was apparent for myself was that during the enquiry what arose to the surface of my mind were Issues that I had buried over several lifetimes .

The effortless search brought to the fore Issues that required much effort which contained an abundance of self forgiveness .

daz .

Hi Daz

So what makes up these aspects of consciousness? Would It be like our life experiences that can shape the self? Is that perhaps what you mean?

With our healing model we work with seven aspects of self (consciousness), the main ones we would be dealing with here are our lower memory consciousness, which has accepted that it is right for us to suffer because we have decided that it is right for us to do so, our core way of being, which is formed around our thought patterns and beliefs and is shaping our reality and our higher consciousness which is attempting to keep us true to our authentic self.

The one we use the most, our middle consciousness or everyday thinking mind, is being bombarded with conflicting information from the other aspects of self and does not know how to resolve the disharmony or disease within self, so the situation continues until someone or something breaks the cycle. 🙂

Hello Daz thank you for your reply, I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from it's interesting to me because I seem to have done it the other way round, I dealt with all my 'stuff' guilt, forgiveness, stuff from a zillion other lives too as well as this one so none of the healing was done during the enquiry into self, it was more of a case of the enquiry into self made me realise it's time to let go to identify with something new other than suffering which was defining me I saw the suffering as self as in 'Rebecca the sufferer' like you may say "Jane the hairdesser' if that makes sense?
Anyway I got fed up with it, I feel things have unfolded beautifully and in the exact way they were meant to, where are you up to at the moment?

Rebecca XX

...That was not to do with the cause of suffering which I have outlined in this thread, but in the healing of suffering.

I hope that clarifies this for you. 🙂

Ok Paul, Yes, I see yourself and Chris differ in your approach to healing suffering. That does clarify things - Thanks for your reply.

Hi Rebecca,
Your comment "Sometimes Chris I get the impression from your posts in this thread that you never consider those who do want their pain and suffering to be 'bulldozed' as quickly and efficiently as possible? I reckon I've done my suffering, I've learned loads it's been a blast but now I don't want it, it served me well but now I have no need of it and to have any risidual issues which cause me any kind of suffering to be bulldozed as quickly as humanly possible right now seems like a blinding idea to me."
I've followed a few of your posts, and I know that you have benefitted in some way from Paul's methods (or whatever).

So yes- I do understand - and I do sympathise. There are (more often than we would like it) times when we just wish it could all be made right for us - and the promise that someone will just take it all away and we can return to normality is appealing to say the least. This is the time when people are at their most vulnerable and their defences are at their weakest, and it is when we all feel the urge most to help.
The point made earlier (not my wording but something thrown at me) was about wallowing in suffering - this I do not advocate, if we are suffering we should be doing something about it, changing our circumstances to move beyond it. At times when we seem in the midst of it all we often find it most difficult to deal with it, even impossible and it seems as if it will never end.
If someone comes to me like this the only answer is to work as fast as possible. If they are seeking out help then they are getting ready to experience healing (on this I think I agree with Paul if I have heard right). The process is no different, just more intensive - and it is at times like this that they are most in need of love and compassion to help them through. So I step up the frequency of sessions if they feel up to it, and yes I listen as long as they wish to talk, and when they go quiet I do healing as best as I know how.
This is their issue, I think they need to all the things that I say need doing, identify the issue, face up to it, lose the fear of it and then forgive. Then the changes will occur and healing will be effective.

However to have someone 'do it all for you', just make it all better immediately does not sound like a realistic answer, it is more like an illusion. How can they identify the real issue when it is often hidden inside? how can they face up to it for you? How can they take away your fear of it? How can they forgive it for you? What they can do is provide healing for the symptoms, pain reduction of a sort (or suffering suppression perhaps). Does this really deal with the issue? Or is it still inside, covered and waiting for the time when it can recur?
The benefit of this kind of healing session is that it can give one a breathing space and time to gain a bit of calm, to allow a chance for one to be able to review and even to plan - it is like giving pain relief for a person with cancer, very welcome but in actual fact it solves nothing in the long run.
love
chris

Interesting discussion about suffering.
It is also interesting to consider not who is responsible but what is the reason for suffering is.

Hi Chris .

I think there’s something to suffering like there Is no other In terms of self contemplation being a result of . I would say many reach out In the depths of suffering and perhaps pray for some rest bite or try and understand as to why life Is the way It Is for them . Falling In love and winning the lottery do not seem to create the same environment and need for self enquire lol .

On one level a golden rule that Is to treat others as you want to be treated Is still being overlooked across the globe . If every Individual made decisions with this golden rule In mind then the world would change over night . The knock on effect would be tremendous .

Why would anyone at a root level want to bring harm to another . The answer to that Is the root cause of sufferings . Perhaps If I was to mention that every Individual that brings about sufferings to another will have a lack of awareness of self and a lack of self love In expression .

daz .

Hi Daz

With our healing model we work with seven aspects of self (consciousness), the main ones we would be dealing with here are our lower memory consciousness, which has accepted that it is right for us to suffer because we have decided that it is right for us to do so, our core way of being, which is formed around our thought patterns and beliefs and is shaping our reality and our higher consciousness which is attempting to keep us true to our authentic self.

The one we use the most, our middle consciousness or everyday thinking mind, is being bombarded with conflicting information from the other aspects of self and does not know how to resolve the disharmony or disease within self, so the situation continues until someone or something breaks the cycle. 🙂

Thanks paul for the explanation . I get what you mean now . 🙂

daz .

Hi Daz
Would you like to make your mind up if it is one thing or the other, we are either causing the pain and suffering by our thought patterns and beliefs or we are not? or are you just being dualistic!

Hi Paul .

Whats happening here paul Is that all there Is - Is the self . Remember my take on the self Is that the self Is what we are within mind . Some can relate the self to God . Within our Individual God experience of life what we are can get caught up within illusion, what we are can get caught up In emotion, and within metal / Intellectual concepts etc, etc .

So In essence what we can become disillusioned with In life Is not what we are although as everything Is part of our creation we cannot separate the illusions from what Is real . We cannot separate the painting from the artist In other words .

There Is a very strong feeling that Individuals have and that Is that they are not being themselves and yet all there Is - Is the self .

How does an Individual therefore become themselves . I say that only happens when we let go of everything that we are not and yet again I will repeat the same words “all there Is Is what we are” .

Life Is full of Ironies, paradoxes and contradictions, I would say we can find an element of truth In them all .

daz .

Hi Chris

The point made earlier (not my wording but something thrown at me) was about wallowing in suffering - this I do not advocate, if we are suffering we should be doing something about it, changing our circumstances to move beyond it.

Circumstances are usually a symptom of the underlying cause which is self.

If they are seeking out help then they are getting ready to experience healing (on this I think I agree with Paul if I have heard right). The process is no different, just more intensive - and it is at times like this that they are most in need of love and compassion to help them through.

Glad to hear you are not totally opposed to getting on with the job in hand.

Personally I think they are most in need of healing applied directly to the underlying cause (which is self) and a full understanding of personal responsibilities so they are free to make personal choices.

However to have someone 'do it all for you', just make it all better immediately does not sound like a realistic answer, it is more like an illusion.

It only sounds like an illusion because you do not understand the process, we always apply healing in a meaningful manner, so that it is meaningful to the person receiving it, so they can embrace it in a positive manner and make whatever use of it they want to.

How can they identify the real issue when it is often hidden inside?

Because we are dealing with the person, right now within the oneness of consciousness, not their circumstances or past events, only what is being created within them right now, all is one.

Have you not developed intuition and empathy yet? they are a part of a healers tool kit!

how can they face up to it for you?

We don't, they have to accept themselves in an open and non-judgemental way.

How can they forgive it for you?

We don't, there is nothing to forgive, forgiveness requires judgement and blame which creates inner conflicts, self acceptance in an open and non-judgemental way is far more productive than applying condemnation and judgement.

How can they take away your fear of it?

We do not taken away fears, we transform them.

What they can do is provide healing for the symptoms, pain reduction of a sort (or suffering suppression perhaps).

You are showing your lack of understanding again.

We heal the person within consciousness, symptoms which are an outward manifestation of consciousness are not the priority, though we are happy to help with them once we have resolved the underlying cause.

Hi Daz

Whats happening here paul Is that all there Is - Is the self . Remember my take on the self Is that the self Is what we are within mind . Some can relate the self to God . Within our Individual God experience of life what we are can get caught up within illusion, what we are can get caught up In emotion, and within metal / Intellectual concepts etc, etc .

So In essence what we can become disillusioned with In life Is not what we are although as everything Is part of our creation we cannot separate the illusions from what Is real . We cannot separate the painting from the artist In other words .

There Is a very strong feeling that Individuals have and that Is that they are not being themselves and yet all there Is - Is the self .

How does an Individual therefore become themselves . I say that only happens when we let go of everything that we are not and yet again I will repeat the same words “all there Is Is what we are” .

Life Is full of Ironies, paradoxes and contradictions, I would say we can find an element of truth In them all .

An individual becomes themself by accepting themself in an open and non-judgemental way, there is only self, by denying aspects of self or putting self down, we only create inner conflicts and disharmony.

Everything starts and finishes with a thought, every thought which we have has the potential to directly affect our reality, illusions do become reality all of the time, the illusion of suffering will certainly manifest suffering within a being's reality.

You can relate yourself to whatever you want to, if you choose to perceive yourself as god, then you will become god in your reality, but it is still you who is creating that reality and only you can take responsibility for what you create within your thoughts/consciousness.

...it is still you who is creating that reality and only you can take responsibility for what you create within your thoughts/consciousness.

Doesn't that make your job as a healer null & void?

Hi WildStrawberry

Doesn't that make your job as a healer null & void?

No, transformational healing works within consciousness, so we heal people's thought patterns and beliefs and give them the tools and understanding to transform their reality from within. 🙂

... we heal people's thought patterns and beliefs and give them the tools and understanding to transform their reality from within. 🙂

If you heal people's thought patterns and beleifs... what is there left to do?

If you have healed people's thought patterns and beleifs.. then it wasn't all their doing /responsibility... surely?

(Paul, I hope this isn't coming across as me mindlessly 'picking on you' ~ because that's not my intention:))

it was more of a case of the enquiry into self made me realise it's time to let go to identify with something new other than suffering which was defining me I saw the suffering as self as in 'Rebecca the sufferer' like you may say "Jane the hairdesser' if that makes sense?

Hi Rebbecca

Yes It makes sense to me . Self enquiry If carried out with the Intention only to know thyself will bring to the surface only what that Individual Is In need of .

It will be uniquely different for all but the results will be the same .

daz .

Hi Daz
An individual becomes themself by accepting themself in an open and non-judgemental way, there is only self, by denying aspects of self or putting self down, we only create inner conflicts and disharmony.

Hi paul .

I agree although the point I am making Is that by having to accept what they are In order to be themselves would mean that they were not being themselves prior to the acceptance and yet all there Is Is the self . Perhaps one needs to accept that they were not being themselves also . This Is what I mean about all there Is Is the self and yet many are seemingly not In expression of it .

What can confuse Individuals and what can seem contradictory Is how can I not be anything other than what I am and yet what I am feels and seems disconnected from that . The recognized term Is I have lost myself .

Perhaps In answer to that term would be you have to find what Isn’t lost .

Everything starts and finishes with a thought, every thought which we have has the potential to directly affect our reality, illusions do become reality all of the time, the illusion of suffering will certainly manifest suffering within a being's reality.

You can relate yourself to whatever you want to, if you choose to perceive yourself as god, then you will become god in your reality, but it is still you who is creating that reality and only you can take responsibility for what you create within your thoughts/consciousness.

Ah Paul - It matters not If an Individual does or doesn’t believe that what they are Is God . Beliefs do not make what we are to be anything other than what we are . Does an Individual that believes / perceives that they are God automatically become wise and all powerful do they automatically reconnect with the oneness only on the basis that they think that God is what they are?

To realize that they are God will bring the power and the wisdom to the fore . No-one can become wise because they believe / perceive themselves to be . I understand that certain mind sets and illusions do bring about a state of false Identity to the Individual and In that respect they are creating their own little bubble of delusion but It doesn’t change the reality of what It Is that they really are .

daz .

Running behind again - it is a good sign that these threads (these improtant threads) are so active...

Hi Paul,
You said "I think you might find that suffering is more to do with self, than our circumstances, have you not seen people carry their sufferings around with them from one place or job to the next and one relationship to the next, they might find short term relief from a change in circumstances" and I could not agree more that simply trying to move away and avoid the real issue will not work. When I talk about changing one's circumstances I do not simply mean a physical move. It is about realising what the issues are, what needs to be changed in order to relieve the suffering. If the casue realtes to a physical aspect then sometimes the solution may be physical, but not always for instance.
So I would not advocate the avoidance strategy, it will not work in the long term, only by identifying the cause (which may have passed or may not), by facing up to it, by losing the fear of it and by forgiving can the issues be healed. By simply jumping into a place where you hope that you can avoid them you only prolong the issue and it will not be healed.

Hi WildStrawberry,
Paul put it very well "That was not to do with the cause of suffering which I have outlined in this thread, but in the healing of suffering" and this is at the heart of the issues, for I see suffering as a symptom, and so 'healing' of a symptom as temporary at best, while Paul believes it is a permanent solution.