ive been following lots of training/regulation threads on here, and have to say find the information so useful.
As a therapist I do find it frustrating that there are lots of training courses out there that cannot train very good therapists, so heres a couple of questions aimed at some SportsMassage, SportsTherapy and BGFL as i believe you are all CNHC now?
I have seen that there has been instances of training schools offering VTCT level 3 sports massage courses in as little as 3 days, and sports therapy courses in 5 days....which I personally find shocking.
Here is a statement taken directly from the SMA website
We are also delighted to have been approached by <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="VTCT">VTCT and to provide the Association's endorsement of the new qualifications and we can assure you that the SMA will be active in the quality control of course providers offering these qualifications.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to find quite a few schools offering these qualifications in this short space of time, so can I ask what you are doing about it, as in my view, they are still running courses, and I assume, obtaining SMA membership, which can now lead to CNHC registration?
Whilst I dont agree with a lot of what the SST has said over the years, but one thing I do agree with them on, is that the standard of training varies so much in this industry, how can we be taken seriously?
I would have thought that with GCMT, SRTC and CNHC that this would have been sorted long before now, so what is going on guys? I know you are volunteers, but you have put your names and reputations to these organisations......
i can see a whole lot arguments coming this way:rolleyes::eek::D
i'll get the ball rolling:p
i gained my sports massage diploma, yes i said diploma:eek: which was based over a short time, it was a great course and i learned a lot, and i believe i have become a valuable therapist over the last 4yrs that i have been qualified.
I have also had treatment from an other sports massage therapist for a hamstring injury, the therapist was a level 4 and had gained her qual at degree level. over several years.
i was not impressed with her treatment of my hamstring, i walked away thinking im never going back to her.
so i dont think it really matters whether you have gained you qual at degree, diploma or other levels you can be a poor therapist regardless.
if someone who has only done a weekend course starts practicing on the public, they will soon see that they are not good enough and will need to take further training or move to a different therapy.
there are always arguments about length and levels of courses for sports massage, but as i have found those that have the highest level and the longest of courses can still give poor treatments.:confused:
the public will always decide with their feet if a therapist is any good or not and the therapist will soon disappear
let the barrage begin:p
ive been following lots of training/regulation threads on here, and have to say find the information so useful.
As a therapist I do find it frustrating that there are lots of training courses out there that cannot train very good therapists, so heres a couple of questions aimed at some SportsMassage, SportsTherapy and BGFL as i believe you are all CNHC now? [COLOR="red"]At the moment myself and Gary are PSB members of CNHC, myself for massage, and Gary for Sport & Remedial.
I have seen that there has been instances of training schools offering VTCT level 3 sports massage courses in as little as 3 days, and sports therapy courses in 5 days....which I personally find shocking. [COLOR="red"]You are 100% right there!
Here is a statement taken directly from the SMA website
We are also delighted to have been approached by <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="VTCT">VTCT and to provide the Association's endorsement of the new qualifications and we can assure you that the SMA will be active in the quality control of course providers offering these qualifications.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to find quite a few schools offering these qualifications in this short space of time, so can I ask what you are doing about it, as in my view, they are still running courses, and I assume, obtaining SMA membership, which can now lead to CNHC registration? [COLOR="red"]I cant answer that as I dont belong to SMA. I do know this, that where a training course doesnt meet the standard, then they shouldnt be verified for CNHC, and if a PA is found to do this, then they would be removed from CNHC.
Whilst I dont agree with a lot of what the SST has said over the years, but one thing I do agree with them on, is that the standard of training varies so much in this industry, how can we be taken seriously?
I would have thought that with GCMT, SRTC and CNHC that this would have been sorted long before now, so what is going on guys? I know you are volunteers, but you have put your names and reputations to these organisations......
Can I put you straight on a few things, and I can speak for BGFL to some degree, however, im sure he will respond himself.
Firstly, we were involved with GCMT for around 5 years, and for 3 of them made a huge amount of progress in the massage industry, and for the last 2 were met with apathy and incompetence, very strong words, but that is how I saw it, as did many of my GCMT colleagues, who are no longer part of it. We were supposed to be lead body, ensuring quality of training, but nothing was done about it, which is why most of us left.
I have been involved with CNHC for 2 years, and in relation to the massage register, I have to be completely honest and say the jury is still out. That is because I am still met with apathy and incompetence from the massage industry, and fierce resistance to change from organisations who are protecting their own incomes instead of looking after their standards.
We are fortunate in the sports therapy industry that we have SRTC looking after it, and ensuring standards are kept high, and will not accept anyone that doesnt meet the minimum standard to register with CNHC.
I agree that the variance in training standards, even within an awarding organisation, is so ridiculous that it infuriates me, and it makes a mockery of all us that have gone through decent training courses.
You are right that I have put my name and reputation to these organisations, but I can assure you that I work flat out trying to get the massage profession to get its act together, but its an uphill task, and no-one seems interested in getting involved.....too much for them to lose.
Im certainly glad that my organisation (STO) doesnt endorse some of these qualifications, and certainly wont let anyone with some of these qualifications join as members, I will leave that to those who arent particularly bothered about standards, but are bothered about 'bums on seats' and how many members they can get.
On a parting note, I will say that I would much prefer sports massage to have a home with the SRTC, but due to the fact that the most of the sports massage training standards are too low, it will have to stay at GCMT.
PS.....do you want a job working in regulation? No pay, hours are terrible, but we need people with a passion for the industry!
i can see a whole lot arguments coming this way:rolleyes::eek::D
i'll get the ball rolling:p
i gained my sports massage diploma, yes i said diploma:eek: which was based over a short time, it was a great course and i learned a lot, and i believe i have become a valuable therapist over the last 4yrs that i have been qualified.
I have also had treatment from an other sports massage therapist for a hamstring injury, the therapist was a level 4 and had gained her qual at degree level. over several years.
i was not impressed with her treatment of my hamstring, i walked away thinking im never going back to her.
so i dont think it really matters whether you have gained you qual at degree, diploma or other levels you can be a poor therapist regardless.
if someone who has only done a weekend course starts practicing on the public, they will soon see that they are not good enough and will need to take further training or move to a different therapy.
there are always arguments about length and levels of courses for sports massage, but as i have found those that have the highest level and the longest of courses can still give poor treatments.:confused:
the public will always decide with their feet if a therapist is any good or not and the therapist will soon disappear
let the barrage begin:p
I certainly agree that there is always going to be good and bad, no matter where people train, but we do have a minimum standard in place that is being flouted at all levels.
If we dont have a minimum standard that is being adhered to how can we ever get the recognition that we deserve. The sports massage profession could be great, and IMO, SMPs and STs should be the only ones working in sport, but they arent, because we still arent trusted.
If we arent careful, to work at any level in sport you will need a degree in sports therapy or sports rehab, and that isnt me saying that, its coming from lots of sporting bodies.....the only reason they are saying this is because we (the industry) cannot guarantee even a minimum amount of training has been done by our therapists.
as someone with a degree in sports therapy and a diploma in sport & remedial massage, I do think it would be a shame if everything was degree level, as I dont think we were (are) taught enough hands on skills, however, that is very easily remedied, and to be honest I think maybe now its the only way we could guarantee that a minimum standard is met?
I think physiotherapy is increasing the amount of massage in its degrees, so we do run the risk of losing out again.
Of course clients are going to choose and if someone is no good, then they will go somewhere else, that happens in every walk of life, but if everyone is trained to a minimum standard, and assessed as competent (because the assessment process is a huge part of ensuring standards), then at least we have a better chance of clients seeing a good sports massage therapist/ST and not having to go elsewhere.
PS.....do you want a job working in regulation? No pay, hours are terrible, but we need people with a passion for the industry!
i already feel like i work for no pay:eek:, do terrible hours:mad: but i still have a huge passion for this industry:D
i'm always trying to promote the benefits of SM/ST you tell me what i can do and i'll help to promote.
but the battle against course providers is a mighty tough one at the moment:(
there seems to be to many bodies/regulators out there all defending their corner, and i believe that most therapist look at these as just an other way of taking their money for not doing much to help them. (please dont have a go at me, im sure you guys do lots of work that is never seen)
therapist i talk to are not that bothered about regulation:eek: they think if it does come in that the bar will be set to high and push many good therapist out of work. also they cant see how it will benefit them within their working practice, the public dont really have much of idea about regulation anyway.
only the other day, i was treating a client and i was talking about insurance and he said to me "what you have to have insurance":eek: and i had been treating him for nearly 3years. He didnt realize we needed insurance to practice:eek:
i already feel like i work for no pay:eek:, do terrible hours:mad: but i still have a huge passion for this industry:D
i'm always trying to promote the benefits of SM/ST you tell me what i can do and i'll help to promote.
but the battle against course providers is a mighty tough one at the moment:(
there seems to be to many bodies/regulators out there all defending their corner, and i believe that most therapist look at these as just an other way of taking their money for not doing much to help them. (please dont have a go at me, im sure you guys do lots of work that is never seen)
therapist i talk to are not that bothered about regulation:eek: they think if it does come in that the bar will be set to high and push many good therapist out of work. also they cant see how it will benefit them within their working practice, the public dont really have much of idea about regulation anyway.
only the other day, i was treating a client and i was talking about insurance and he said to me "what you have to have insurance":eek: and i had been treating him for nearly 3years. He didnt realize we needed insurance to practice:eek:
I have run a PA for over 10 years, sometimes we give away free membership, when we have money spare, other times we charge, never do we make any money out of it, as my opinion is ive had a lot from the industry, and I would rather give something back than just take take take, but I can see how it can look that some PAs just take your money and do nothing for you, ive been members of such ones myself. There are those though, that do a huge amount of work for you, though for some, they do take large salaries, so its not all 'for the good of the industry'.
I think the best way anyone can promote the profession is to do the best treatments you can. The more people that use us, the more recognised we get. People are turning to more hands on therapies, but my gripe is that some organisations are just churning out therapists with no regard for standards. Ive been in meetings and been told that its 'purely business', but surely thats not why we train as therapists, so why do these awarding organisations and PAs treat it like a conveyor belt and cash cow? Maybe im just a bit too wet behind the ears?
Anyway, I wanted to steer away from political ramblings, but as usual I cant help getting involved!
By the way, good luck with the teaching, im sure DFNU can give you some good pointers, and if you PM me, im sure I can too.
I think the best way anyone can promote the profession is to do the best treatments you can. The more people that use us, the more recognised we get. People are turning to more hands on therapies I totally agree:D
Anyway, I wanted to steer away from political ramblings, but as usual I cant help getting involved!hard not too:p
By the way, good luck with the teaching, im sure DFNU can give you some good pointers, and if you PM me, im sure I can too.
yeah i would like to get into teaching, its that giving back thing i guess, i always give the best i can and will always help each client get back to whatever they are trying to achieve, i try to promote as much as i can the good the SM & ST does, i also make it clear to people who enquire about massage that if they dont go with me to still go with someone who is regulated by the big boys and make sure they have insurance, whether they do or not:eek:
i will endeavor to speak aloud about SM & ST lets just hope that if we do get statutory regulation that i dont get over looked:p
ive been following lots of training/regulation threads on here, and have to say find the information so useful.
As a therapist I do find it frustrating that there are lots of training courses out there that cannot train very good therapists, so heres a couple of questions aimed at some SportsMassage, SportsTherapy and BGFL as i believe you are all CNHC now?
I have seen that there has been instances of training schools offering VTCT level 3 sports massage courses in as little as 3 days, and sports therapy courses in 5 days....which I personally find shocking.
Here is a statement taken directly from the SMA website
We are also delighted to have been approached by <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="VTCT">VTCT and to provide the Association's endorsement of the new qualifications and we can assure you that the SMA will be active in the quality control of course providers offering these qualifications.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to find quite a few schools offering these qualifications in this short space of time, so can I ask what you are doing about it, as in my view, they are still running courses, and I assume, obtaining SMA membership, which can now lead to CNHC registration?
Whilst I dont agree with a lot of what the SST has said over the years, but one thing I do agree with them on, is that the standard of training varies so much in this industry, how can we be taken seriously?
I would have thought that with GCMT, SRTC and CNHC that this would have been sorted long before now, so what is going on guys? I know you are volunteers, but you have put your names and reputations to these organisations......
I have just returned from working at the London Marathon, an opportunity provided to me by my PA, a paid opportunity at that. and found this interesting thread.
Firstly could I say that there are things happening behind the scenes which are not yet in the public domain, I have recently had contact with Chair of Education at GCMT, was ignored by the majority of the massage PSB , had email conversations with head of awarding organisation to discuss the fact that there are a high number of massage training courses which do not meet standards, either those of the AO, those of GCMT or NOS( complete, not just cherry picked generic units). I have responses from a distance learnng college burying its head in the sand, I asked if theri courses were recognise by SMA, he replied who are SMA, I replied "As the leading independent professional body for Sports Massage in the UK" from their website. but they deny knowing who they are.
There are those keeping the standards low, by offering level 1.2.3.4.5 membership, the large awarding organisations turning over nearly £7,000,000 in certification, registration and other costs to the students who carry all the weigth in the industry, I am merely a vocie operating voluntarily without funding fighting the injustice where some therapists spend their hard earned cash and hundreds of hours appropriately training and end up with the same certificate as a weekend wonder from the same AO.
I dont have a hope of changing much, I seriously think that I should throw in the towel, after thinly veiled threats and personal attacks on here.
Why do majot PAs, claim to be lead bodies, artificialy inflate their membership, state degree entry is minimum entry standard, say they dont recognise diplomates then run diploma courses......????
because they want your cash
simples
to continue.
they want your cash, and some of you are daft enough to pay your membership (and insurance premiums for substandard insurance policies) on the empty promises you have been listening to since the turn of the last decade
I believe there are a small number of people out there, protecting their income stream to fund worldwide travel under the pretence of furthering your industry, wining and dining ministers and using ministerial contacts to pressurise the regulatory processes.
dont take my word for it, use your membership rights to ask why after 3 years of expensive training you are being encouraged to takeo n unpaid internships to gain experience, ask why the elite sports bodies like premiereship football are advertising for strength and conditioning coaches, and therapsits to undertake a 1 year unpaid internship, despite spending millions on players wages, yet nothing to ensure their rehab is effective.
Ask why the CMO of the FA said two weeks ago that everyone working in football should have sports therapy training, even if they have physio degrees? Then ask why EIS and FA have gone to the regulator to dictate where education standards should be set, despite asking the advice of the lead bodies and specialist educators in the industry
because he recognises the advanced sports specific skillset of the sports therapist
Ask why the English Institute of Sport were seen last Wednesday working on elite athletes, in the follwoing scenario.
Fantastic facilities, 12/14 couches, 5 injured athletes, I physio/ receptionist, 5 athletes face down with infra red or heat lamps and not one soft tissue therapist in sight. This is an establishment giving tours to junior county level athletes and in their own words " at the cutting edge of rehabilitation"
historical relationships with an elitist organisation, built on the relationship of one person with contacts who doesnt understand what education levels are, yet recommends "level 4" therapists, but when questioned had no idea what training they would have undergone
Ask why there are not enough volunteer therapists for the olympics.
The Physios and or successful therapists will not commit to 10 days unpaid non expensed work
Your PA might be the one pushing unpaid internships for " experience"
My PA provides paid work opportunites at £30 per hour per therapist
ask why major awarding organisations are stopping your Professional association from externally assessing the awards they are accrediting
because they are keeping standards low and getting away with bums on seats attendance courses for funding purposes
ask why your PA is linked heavily with a major awarding body, validating tutors to teach their courses when they possess no formal teaching quaification or clinical experience.
There are shortages of qualified teachers and assessors and/or they have no one qualified to teach the new level 5 courses on the QCF, which incidently has four days training and the immortal words " the qualification will not be issued until you then complete 500 hourse of supervised case studies/practice? who is going to supervise or assess that ?
Also cost less to have "associate teachers"
ask why your PA, despite knowing about substandard courses being validated continue to allow membership for sub standard therapists.
because their membership money funds the activities and travel of the board
Ask why your PA, shouts degree as minimum entry to the regulator yet runs its won diploma course.
To provide a steady stream of students for its top up degree.
And to think we get involved in all this politics for no financial reward, but out of a sense of pride in our industry, for ethical reasons they should not be allowed to get away with it.
And for the record if the current regulatory process fails, I will gladly come on here and admit defeat, and furthermore I will name the names of the people who are continually trying to make it fail. I will name the course providers who are qualifiying those with as little as zero hands on training, right up to those who do a full four days training.
Au revoir
BGFL
I too have just popped on before I head for the land of nod. Slightly off subject but I have just been accepted on the CNHC register as Sport n Remedial....... Just want to thank BGFL and everyone else for the usual outstanding help guiding me in the right direction. Much appreciated!!!!! Hopefully I am now one step closer to building a successful practice. 
Katielou, pm me a,contact number I will give you a,call
ask why the elite sports bodies like premiereship football are advertising for strength and conditioning coaches, and therapsits to undertake a 1 year unpaid internship, despite spending millions on players wages, yet nothing to ensure their rehab is effective.
ive seen several adverts for this, WHY do these multi million pound business think that we should work for free? they pay their player £10ks aweek but think we can go for a year without pay, just to say we work with blah blah. what happens after that year, do theysay thanks alot and take on an other therapist who will work for nothing for a year. we have a skill that can help keep their team going on the pitch. i'd love to work with my local football team, but find the lack of interst in my profession amazing, plus it all seem to be closed doors with these types of clubs.
i think if we keep providing our services free at clubs local or national and at events we will never be seen as a true professional industry, freebies are worthless
olympics, marathons and other big events should at least provide some monies towards the therapists costs, but while we're happy to do it free we will never get paid and will never be taken seriously as a professional.