Yeah this all tends to go round and round an round an round. Stopping tho getting dizzy now =)
Well, this is the point where I start to feel like the bad guy. Paul, I have said to you before that I appreciate some of things you've said to me here on HP - I REALLY DO, but I have a valid point don't I... I'm not trying to be horrible or anything underhanded - I can say that with absolute honesty.:)
Oh, and Steve - you wouldn't be trying to make a choice for me would you, by advising me to stop now ......:p
Being totally open can be a bitch to live with but it does have its advantages.
How do you mean:
1 - "can be a bitch to live with"
2- "does have its advantages"
WS
Make a choice for you....what and go against all i understand 😀
"can be a bitch to live with"
"does have its advantages"
Well when you are completely open it applies on all levels both human and spiritual. Believe me some people do not feel very nice when you are around them; human emotions/energies can be very corrosive and negative in nature. Most of course are not highly sensitive and as such are unaware of this to the point of believing that all energy is the same.
The advantage is that Spirit/God (whatever name you denote to mean the very highest levels of energy) can integrate almost totally. This means that any healing carried out is often very rapid and effective. Even the voice is used with the words used and pitch of them having a healing effect. Its nothing i ever try to do or control it just happens. I did try though a looooong time ago; i understood that one pretty damn quick;)
Hi Wildstrawberry
This is going to end up in the same old loophole.
It is not a loop hole, it is the way that we are, we all have to work with what people are happy to receive, what we think or feel is immaterial, it is always what the recipient thinks and feels that is important, it is their way of being, or what they are and their life experience that we are helping them to heal and transform after all. 🙂
YOU Paul on the one hand saying everyone is responsible for their own thought patterns/beliefs.
They are, I am not responsible for what you choose to think and if you choose to post those thoughts with in this forum or not, I am also not responsible for the way that you choose to interpret my thoughts that I post within this forum to suit your own personal understanding. 🙂
YOU then taking the responsibility out of their hands when "healing through consciousness
No. I am simply enforcing their choices which they are responsible for choosing for themselves, they know what they wish to change, they just do not know how to do it.
I cannot emphasise this enough, when we start to transform the way someone is, then we are working with the core of the person, they need to choose for themselves, for they have to embrace the manifestations of the transformations within their life experience.
Unfortunately the world is full of well intentioned individuals, who do things for others without asking for their permission or understanding first, simply because they know best, even though their own life experiences are often a mess which they can't sort out for themselves.
If they're not healed YOU saying that side of the fence (the "other" - where there is no other in reality) was THEIR choice.
Healing is a choice, getting up in the morning is a choice, everything is a choice, if we start to dictate to people that they are going to be healed irrespective of if they want it or not, then we are removing their fee will to choose and creating victims.
Well, this is the point where I start to feel like the bad guy. Paul, I have said to you before that I appreciate some of things you've said to me here on HP - I REALLY DO, but I have a valid point don't I... I'm not trying to be horrible or anything underhanded - I can say that with absolute honesty.
Your own understanding is valid within your own understanding and perceptions of the way that things work within you own life experience the same as everyone else, the difficulty that I sometimes have with your posts, is that you will say that you do not agree with something within a post, without outlining what it is that you do not agree with, you just say that you will leave it at that!
You do not have to agree with me or anyone else, but if you ask me for my understanding on the points that you do not understand and outline why it clashes with your current understanding, or why it does not sit well with you, then I will be able to answer you a lot better once I understood what and why it clashes with your current understanding. 🙂
The biggest problem that I have is portraying the understanding that came from connecting with the fullness of self and through that the oneness of consciousness using a limited vocabulary, when you receive an new conceptual understanding or knowing, that turns the usual understanding of how everything works upon it head, then it is often difficult to express it in the way that it needs to be expressed.
Hi Steve
Some people such as Paul create a way of working that fits what they think is correct and actually that is far easier to do than understand what exists naturally. That's entirely ok of course we are all different and act accordingly. You only have to look and the hundreds of systems on offer.
Actually it was the opposite Steve, it was because all of my many years of studying different healing models and ways of healing had given me an understanding that did not work, that allowed me to stop looking outward and start to look within and embrace self in an open and non-judgemental way, that has allowed me to connect with my higher self and the oneness of consciousness, through that I received a completely different understanding to what my many years of studying had given me.
My current understanding is almost the complete reverse of what I understood before I encountered it, it does not just encompass the way that I now heal within consciousness, it is the understanding of consciousness itself and how we use it to create our life experience, which has transformed my understanding of everything and allows me to heal in a consciousness manner.
I now work with a understanding of that which underpins our life experience, what creates our suffering or happiness, our sickness or health, what allows us to heal or not to heal, our successes or failures, I am still learning and as the understanding is unfolding, so the healing is getting easier and more meaningful both for myself and those who choose to embrace it.
Would I choose to go back and embrace the ignorance and naivety that I had before I encountered the fullness of self and embraced self realisation, the simple answer is no I would not choose to go back, even if it was possible to do so. 🙂
Your own understanding is valid within your own understanding and perceptions of the way that things work within you own life experience the same as everyone else, the difficulty that I sometimes have with your posts, is that you will say that you do not agree with something within a post, without outlining what it is that you do not agree with, you just say that you will leave it at that!
Paul, I think you'll find that I've never agreed or disagreed with anything you or anyone else on the forum is saying - if I write a post it's because I'm highlighting the boundaries and conflicts of the person I'm talking to. Not because I've read about what you've written about inner conflict etc, but because I came to the same understanding about inner divisions, conflicts, boundaries, consciousness etc myself (about 15years ago), via nothing but my own resources.
So, when I say I'll leave it at that - which yes, I do say - it is because the person I'm asking the questions of thinks I'm asking for their expert opinion - which isn't the case - I'm highlighting the conflicts. So....
You do not have to agree with me or anyone else, but if you ask me for my understanding on the points that you do not understand and outline why it clashes with your current understanding, or why it does not sit well with you, then I will be able to answer you a lot better once I understood what and why it clashes with your current understanding. 🙂
....I'm not asking for your understanding, I'm pointing out your conflicts/boundaries... - you (or another person) believes that I've misunderstood and that I'm talking about my me, asking questions born out of my own misunderstanding, when I'm really talking about you (or them - the person I'm asking the question of). At that, I choose not to take it any further. 🙂
WS
Make a choice for you....what and go against all i understand 😀
"can be a bitch to live with"
"does have its advantages"
Well when you are completely open it applies on all levels both human and spiritual. Believe me some people do not feel very nice when you are around them; human emotions/energies can be very corrosive and negative in nature. Most of course are not highly sensitive and as such are unaware of this to the point of believing that all energy is the same.
The advantage is that Spirit/God (whatever name you denote to mean the very highest levels of energy) can integrate almost totally. This means that any healing carried out is often very rapid and effective. Even the voice is used with the words used and pitch of them having a healing effect. Its nothing i ever try to do or control it just happens. I did try though a looooong time ago; i understood that one pretty damn quick;)
I know what your saying Steve.....:). Thanks.
Hi WildStrawberry
That creates a one sided conversation where you are perceiving a boundary or conflict, that perhaps the person you are highlighting your perceptions to does not.
Let me reiterate, I am not responsible for the way that you choose to interpret my words to suit your own life experience, if my words show you a boundary or conflict that does not exist within my own consciousness, then who does the boundary or conflict belong to?
Personally I do not perceive other people's freedom to choose for themselves as a boundary that I need to overcome, I acknowledge their freedom to choose, I do not judge, I am happy for them to embrace whatever life experience they personally wish to embrace for themselves, I am happy just to be and allow them just to be. 🙂
Hi WildStrawberry
That creates a one sided conversation where you are perceiving a boundary or conflict, that perhaps the person you are highlighting your perceptions to does not.
....that's true isn't it Paul, you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink :D;)
Let me reiterate, I am not responsible for the way that you choose to interpret my words to suit your own life experience, if my words show you a boundary or conflict that does not exist within my own consciousness, then who does the boundary or conflict belong to?
I know your not responsible for my perceptions in anyway Paul, and if you attempted to be, I'd say thanks very much - but please don't interfere ;):D
....and the boundary thing.... boils down to is this me or you .... this is were repeating patterns and the choosing to "leave it at that" comes in;
Personally I do not perceive other people's freedom to choose for themselves as a boundary that I need to overcome, I acknowledge their freedom to choose, I do not judge, I am happy for them to embrace whatever life experience they personally wish to embrace for themselves, I am happy just to be and allow them just to be. 🙂
Okay....shall we leave it at that :D;):)
And, by the way, I didn't say that I saw boundaries as something to be overcome.
Hi WS,
If I may just pick up on something you said...
if I write a post it's because I'm highlighting the boundaries and conflicts of the person I'm talking to. Not because I've read about what you've written about inner conflict etc, but because I came to the same understanding about inner divisions, conflicts, boundaries, consciousness etc myself (about 15years ago), via nothing but my own resources.
So, when I say I'll leave it at that - which yes, I do say - it is because the person I'm asking the questions of thinks I'm asking for their expert opinion - which isn't the case - I'm highlighting the conflicts.
Ok, so if your posts are not to garner information for yourself because you don't need others (expert?) opinions, and you are just highlighting the boundaries and conflicts of the person you're posting to, then how does it help if that person asks you to explain what you mean to something you've made a statement about...
Whose ego is it if I consider that the spirits are doing (at least part of) the healing? And who - iyv - imbues the talisman with healing? And where do "Higher Selves" come into this?
because perhaps they don't have that same understanding you've come to... and then you answer it like this...
Crowan, would it sound rude if I said ~ could you leave me alone please... Rude or not - could you leave me alone... cheers!
and
AND Crowan ~ if you are in any way offended by my above post ~ HAVE YOU CONSIDERED SHAMANISM.
Which to many will certainly appear as a rude response to an honest question and is certainly not respecting other members beliefs.
Doesn't that mean that the conversation is very much in favour of you being able to pick out and question every little detail of what other members are writing, based on your own perception of what they are saying, whilst dismissing other people who wish to question your understanding so they could perhaps get a better understanding of your perception and understand where your questions are coming from. Seems like a one sided conversation, and not what I'd consider conducive to the forum etiquette...
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I personally thought Crowan's question to your statement was a perfectly valid one for the discussion, and I would have liked to have seen an answer to it, without the need for any rude responses.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Giles,
What your saying about me being apparently rude to Crowan - here's how I see it - I can see (clairvoyant) where a person is coming from, I can see what tricks there ego is up to - I don't want to get involved with any games so I don't. Also, I could be wrong - but I'm not going to let anyone else decide that for me, I'm operating by my own discernment (who else's, right!).
If I say, Crowan... (or someone else) you're "up to tricks" it looks very much like an accusation doesn't it. And what's the point of accusing anyone of anything - Crowan can do, and is doing, whatever she wants - and I'm choosing not to get involved:).
Crowan, seems to be fine with that, now.
Which to many will certainly appear as a rude response to an honest question and is certainly not respecting other members beliefs.
If you're going to insist that I explain everything in a way that another person asks, then it could be argued that my right to speak/or not speak in my own way is not being respected. I know it seemed apparently rude....
Doesn't that mean that the conversation is very much in favour of you being able to pick out and question every little detail of what other members are writing, based on your own perception of what they are saying, whilst dismissing other people who wish to question your understanding so they could perhaps get a better understanding of your perception and understand where your questions are coming from. Seems like a one sided conversation, and not what I'd consider conducive to the forum etiquette...
I personally thought Crowan's question to your statement was a perfectly valid one for the discussion, and I would have liked to have seen an answer to it, without the need for any rude responses.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
...I have no wish to offend anyone - HONESTLY. But, ...I can only be myself.... I DID answer Crowan in my own way - that was an answer. 🙂
(I'm not trying to be tricky - or rude):)
Hi Wildstrawberry
Leaving the ethics of rummaging around in people's consciousness without asking for their permission first, as I know you will not agree with my thoughts upon this issue.
Personally I would be much happier if you posted a response to my posts saying that you have glimpsed this or that and have interpreted it this or that way because etc, so that I had a chance to assess for myself exactly what you are trying to share with me in the way that you are perceiving it and see if it tallies with my understanding, in that way I would then have the opportunity to make some use of it.
Paul are your "boundaries and conflicts and games" gone now? They should have...;)
Hi Wildstrawberry
Leaving the ethics of rummaging around in people's consciousness without asking for their permission first, as I know you will not agree with my thoughts upon this issue.
Personally I would be much happier if you posted a response to my posts saying that you have glimpsed this or that and have interpreted it this or that way because etc, so that I had a chance to assess for myself exactly what you are trying to share with me in the way that you are perceiving it and see if it tallies with my understanding, in that way I would then have the opportunity to make some use of it.
I strongly support Paul on this position.
I find it very rude and offensive to psychoanalyze a person in public, especially when they didn't ask for it.
Sure, Paul's thought process can be found to have some loopholes, and sometimes when I read his posts I feel like if I said anything about it I'd be beating my head against a brick wall. But, let's say I did something about it and provided my immediate reaction. I could say "Paul, I've found 10 loopholes in your thinking process", but what would it really accomplish? What would I really be trying to say to Paul? Would I be trying to put myself into a position higher than the position I perceive him to have -- he does, after all, demonstrate that he is very well read and have a very successful healing practice so that if I were simply a Reiki Master smug with my attunement(s) and mostly interacting with others online, I might find him to be be very intimidating, and I just might need to put him in his place (a place lower than my own where I could look down on him).
And if I did so, it would prove less to the readers about where-I'm-trying-to-put-Paul and more to the readers where-I-really-am.
"Actions speak louder than words," but in the forum setting, words express our actions.
Now, to speak honestly, there are times when I read one of Paul's posts and I feel like David Lo Pang, the immortal Chinese character in Big Trouble In Little China (1985). There was a scene where Jack Burton, the main character and hero of the story, was winning. Lo Pang had transformed into his ancient and immortal body, levitated off of the floor and as he exited the screen shook his head back and forth saying "This pisses me off to no end!"
What I have not done is prove Paul wrong. I have not gone into his posts and pulled quotes that I feel make him less spiritually advanced than myself and brought them to his attention.
What I have done is use each of those posts as an opportunity for self healing.
When I actively taught in-person group Reiki classes, participants had the opportunity to attend the first class with no financial obligation to donate or pay for anything (a commercial business space was rented and significant expenses were involved in maintaining the group). Every so often someone would come to the group and just find problems with what I was teaching, and me.
One of the exercises that we performed on a very regular basis was looking at my aura. I would ask "what do you sense in my energy field," "do you sense any negative energy," "does one chakra feel more active than another," "do you see colors, hear sounds, or just have an intuitive knowing about something going on inside me"?
The interesting thing about that teaching experience was how the biases a person brought into the class influenced how they perceived my aura.
Prior to relocating to a commercial space, the group had its beginnings in my apartment, which at the time, was in a very lower-class district of San Francisco: an area called The Tenderloin, known as the area where the City places drug addicts in temporary and sometimes permanent housing. That still has a very negative reputation, and "everyone knows" that the streets in that area are not safe and that "it's full of negative energies".
For this discussion, I would say that basically two types of people came in to explore the class: one type came in with the perception that I was this Super Spiritually Advanced Reiki Master, and another type came in from other healing groups (probably on a "dare") to see what was healing (if any) really going on inside an area with such negative energy.
It seems to me that some of those who came in with the preconceived notion that the area was totally immersed in and broadcasting negative energy found endless problems with me. Sometimes my aura was sensed as having "a black sphere in my groin" (yes, someone actually said that to the group), to having grey clouds and other common perceptions associated with negative energies. They attended once and did not return.
Those that came in with the idea that I was some Super Reiki Master had a tendency to return a few times, and usually by the third class they realized that what shot out of my arse wasn't lightening, but rather something equally as powerful as their own and that seemed to put us on equal ground. They did not perceive the negative energies that the one-time challengers did, but as their abilities to sense energies grew, they began to notice that some areas of my energy-field had one level of intensity, while other areas had different levels of intensity -- and afterwards, they were able to use that experience as an observation to look within themselves and gain a better sense of self-awareness.
Over time, I began to realize that we were really just acting as mirrors for each other.
And that basically symbolizes my approach with Paul's posts.
Now, in Paul's case I just don't get any negative energy or any bad energies at all, but in the cases where I've had Lo Pang's reaction, I find myself saying "Why are you saying that in that way??? Don't you see the loophole in your thinking process??? You just said you can't lead a horse to water and make it drink and now you are doing just that??? What's wrong with you???" and then in my own mind I do put Paul in his rightful place:
I hang him on the wall and look at him as I look at a mirror.
Hi Wildstrawberry
Leaving the ethics of rummaging around in people's consciousness without asking for their permission first, as I know you will not agree with my thoughts upon this issue.
Personally I would be much happier if you posted a response to my posts saying that you have glimpsed this or that and have interpreted it this or that way because etc, so that I had a chance to assess for myself exactly what you are trying to share with me in the way that you are perceiving it and see if it tallies with my understanding, in that way I would then have the opportunity to make some use of it.
Paul, I'm not rummaging anyway - this it what happens.... I'm not a nosey parker, I'm not sitting here staring into a crystal ball, rubbing my temples etc...
You could prefer this or that all you want, Paul.... I'm just doing things in my own way... according to your understanding, isn't this what you sign up for/chose to do before coming here to experience this reality....
Paul are your "boundaries and conflicts and games" gone now? They should have...;)
Perhaps mine should have, Jnani;)
Perhaps, Jnani, Paul has created me "as prop" - because Paul is the only one here - you do recognize your own words don't you Jnani;)