Do you believe in God if so why, or if not why not? Recently I was told of a priest that came on television and was I believe retiring, but he never believed in God it was just a job.
I was amazed that a person could take on such a position and not to believe in God.
How could a person do a job without believing in what he did or preached, to people that may of came to him for enlightenment of the Creator.
surely he should not have been in the position he was in!
Peace and light
Peter
Ummm..... is that a piece of spirit dictation Peter? It sounds like the sort of writing I've read on this website in the past.
Peter, did you mean to say that in the divine realm they don't know anything but the truth? Yes, I would agree with that. "God is light and in him there is no darkness at all." (I John 1:5)
Blessings,
Judy
Hi
yes God is Light, and God is Truth, I believe there is no shadows in the more luminous realms! I didn't read this in the Bible! But in the book I read.
Peace and light
Peter
The truth as I undersand it, is that there are only shadows in the subjective judgements of individuals. Have you read "Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance" (Robert M Persig)... a long time classic of philosophy? In this he investigates the meaning of "quality" and how objective and subjective quality exists in things, and what the difference is between them.
From this we can easily say that one persons light is another persons shadow and visa versa.
We've had discussions on these forums in the past around such topics, one of which I remember someone asking "If God is all loving, why does badness exist?" (or some such similar question). To this I would say that people create badness in order to recognise goodness as, if all things were good, then there would be nothing to measure it against, and the good would not be recognised, so people manufacture a badness to give them a measure, thus creating a subjective quality, as their scale of measure will differ from other people's. There's no real reason why everything couldn't be good in the world, just that people would not be able to recognise it, so it therefore comes down to a persons own need to be able to recognise goodness (their attachment to good) that the badness is created... and if people could let go of this need; this attachment; then goodness could prevail (and is likely why the philosophy of Buddhism teaches that we should free ourselves of attachment).
So, as to the original question... Do I believe in God... No I don't, as I don't have a need to see something 'other' to compare myself to, or to (as I perceive it) delude myself into believing that I am something lesser than something other, so that I can have an attachment to bettering myself. In truth, I always work towards doing my best in anything I do, as I can do no better (something that's well expressed in the Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz), and I don't need some negative attachment to create a subjective reality to make me do that.
At the same time I don't believe there is just one God, I believe there are as many Gods as individuals choose to believe (even in the classical sense, there are different religions with different numbers of Gods, and nobody can definitely say that their God(s) is/are the true and only God(s)). It doesn't mean that people are wrong to believe in a God, or wrong to not believe in a God, that's up to the individual and how they recognise their Self in the universe, and whether they have that need to attach to a God. For many it works as a means of helping them understand teachings; a model of understanding into which the words of the teachings fit, to help understand themselves and others. There are plenty of other teachings that do similar things in other ways.
You say:
I read another book besides the Bible, which I draw the knowledge of creation from, as I wants believe was promised by the creator.
and in answer to Crowan as to what evidence you have:
In reading the book!
and to Judy:
yes God is Light, and God is Truth, I believe there is no shadows in the more luminous realms! I didn't read this in the Bible! But in the book I read.
So, a) What is this book? Can we all know of it?
and b) Why do you feel you can just take the word of what is written in this book over others, such as the Bible as being the truth? Shouldn't the truth come from personal experience and knowledge gained through putting information into practice... just information alone is not enough to know the truth; otherwise a person may as well just attend a church (or equivalent) and accept what is told to them.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
The truth as I undersand it, is that there are only shadows in the subjective judgements of individuals. Have you read "Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance" (Robert M Persig)... a long time classic of philosophy? In this he investigates the meaning of "quality" and how objective and subjective quality exists in things, and what the difference is between them.
From this we can easily say that one persons light is another persons shadow and visa versa.
We've had discussions on these forums in the past around such topics, one of which I remember someone asking "If God is all loving, why does badness exist?" (or some such similar question). To this I would say that people create badness in order to recognise goodness as, if all things were good, then there would be nothing to measure it against, and the good would not be recognised, so people manufacture a badness to give them a measure, thus creating a subjective quality, as their scale of measure will differ from other people's. There's no real reason why everything couldn't be good in the world, just that people would not be able to recognise it, so it therefore comes down to a persons own need to be able to recognise goodness (their attachment to good) that the badness is created... and if people could let go of this need; this attachment; then goodness could prevail (and is likely why the philosophy of Buddhism teaches that we should free ourselves of attachment).
So, as to the original question... Do I believe in God... No I don't, as I don't have a need to see something 'other' to compare myself to, or to (as I perceive it) delude myself into believing that I am something lesser than something other, so that I can have an attachment to bettering myself. In truth, I always work towards doing my best in anything I do, as I can do no better (something that's well expressed in the Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz), and I don't need some negative attachment to create a subjective reality to make me do that.
At the same time I don't believe there is just one God, I believe there are as many Gods as individuals choose to believe (even in the classical sense, there are different religions with different numbers of Gods, and nobody can definitely say that their God(s) is/are the true and only God(s)). It doesn't mean that people are wrong to believe in a God, or wrong to not believe in a God, that's up to the individual and how they recognise their Self in the universe, and whether they have that need to attach to a God. For many it works as a means of helping them understand teachings; a model of understanding into which the words of the teachings fit, to help understand themselves and others. There are plenty of other teachings that do similar things in other ways.
You say:
and in answer to Crowan as to what evidence you have:
and to Judy:
So, a) What is this book? Can we all know of it?
and b) Why do you feel you can just take the word of what is written in this book over others, such as the Bible as being the truth? Shouldn't the truth come from personal experience and knowledge gained through putting information into practice... just information alone is not enough to know the truth; otherwise a person may as well just attend a church (or equivalent) and accept what is told to them.All Love and Reiki Hugs
Hi
With the book I am talking about there are no shadows, only Light and Clarity, to the ones that can recognize it.
Many people say, why does God allow such things, without mentioning anything in particular.
I believe God does not interfere with every wean and woe, in Creation, we are given free will, and we must accept the consequences, of reaping what we sow.
So you don't believe in God, how do you think we got here then, by the big bang?
Yes there are loads of authors and loads of opinions who all claim to have the truth, And make lots of money out of their publications.It is when you recognize where this knowledge comes from and who wrote it, that you will recognize it is the Truth.
For those who struggle to read it, I would recommend putting it down as it is not for you yet! Perhaps perhaps later, people let their preconceived opinions stand in the way, when they read it, very sad to have such barriers, and hard to put down.
But this is the intellects trait, the intellects being one of Lucifer's tools, which is why people find it so hard to except the truth.
The churches have been preaching what we believe was the truth for many a year, and families have followed through with their teachings, and going back in time many were murdered if they didn't follow the churches.
What a barrier to the truth when it is put in front of you, why believe this truth? What is so different from when people were murdered, the barrier to God was also raised by the churches, who wanted a God if he condoned such barbaric things, In his name. .
I believe that there is one God, and all the others below him are His helpers, if you do not have the truth you just as well go to church and listen to what they have to say, and their beliefs, which do not always coincide with the truth.They have grains of the truth, very little grains.
Like the murder of Jesus, the Son of God, and then call it a sacrifice, I call it murder what it is.
Many of the teachings of the forerunners , including Buddha, and many others, there teachings were distorted, to suit man, and accepted by so many.
The closing of the cycle which I believe to be very close, the truth will be revealed!
There is so much which we have to answer to, in the Judgement.
Peace and light
Peter
Have you read "Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance" (Robert M Persig)... a long time classic of philosophy
Thanks for this memory. Mention of this book brought back how much I enjoyed it – and the rather wonderful summer that I read it, oh so long ago!
What is this book? Can we all know of it?
Doesn’t look as if we are going to find out!
Doesn’t look as if we are going to find out!
Is it this one - mentioned in this thread - "In The Light Of this Truth"?
As the grand-daughter of a Church of England vicar, I became an agnostic about 35 years ago. I have read this thread with some interest, and others which seem to be evolving along the same lines, but will now stop reading them and hope the site reverts to health matters very soon.
. I have read this thread with some interest, and others which seem to be evolving along the same lines, but will now stop reading them and hope the site reverts to health matters very soon.
To be fair, this is the Religion and Faith section of the site.
Hi
So you don't believe in God, how do you think we got here then, by the big bang?
Depends what you mean by the big bang... the traditional everyday persons understanding of it, or the latest understanding based on quantum physics etc. I'm quiet well read in the latter.
For those who struggle to read it, I would recommend putting it down as it is not for you yet!
If we knew what book it was.
But this is the intellects trait, the intellects being one of Lucifer's tools, which is why people find it so hard to except the truth.
LOL! Intellect is one of Lucifers tools is it.... sorry I cannot take that seriously.
Many of the teachings of the forerunners , including Buddha, and many others, there teachings were distorted, to suit man, and accepted by so many.
Really... please do tell how the teachings of Buddhism (the true philosophy behind buddhism) has been distorted.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
There appears to be a lot of talk about truth in this topic, the reality is that if we choose to place judgement upon something being true, then we must also choose to judge a different thing as being false.
The problem with creating judgements are that they create division and strife both within ourself which creates our internal pain and suffering and then when we express those judgements outward to embrace the wider community, then this has the potential of creating pain and suffering for them.
The reality of truth is that it is transient, whatever a person believes to be true will empower them to create their life experience around that belief of truth, if they choose to change that belief into something else, then their life experience will change to embrace the new belief, however if we choose to take judgements out of the equation, then we are left with what is and our life experience unfolds around that. 
There appears to be a lot of talk about truth in this topic, the reality is that if we choose to place judgement upon something being true, then we must also choose to judge a different thing as being false.
The problem with creating judgements are that they create division and strife both within ourself which creates our internal pain and suffering and then when we express those judgements outward to embrace the wider community, then this has the potential of creating pain and suffering for them.
The reality of truth is that it is transient, whatever a person believes to be true will empower them to create their life experience around that belief of truth, if they choose to change that belief into something else, then their life experience will change to embrace the new belief, however if we choose to take judgements out of the equation, then we are left with what is and our life experience unfolds around that.
Hi
the word truth keeps coming up on many of the threads that I discuss, this is my perception of truth from an author that I followed very closely, I would like your opinions on it.
Question: What is Truth?
Answer: Truth is the Eternal-Unchangeable! Which never changes in its form, but is as it has been eternally and will ever remain, as it is now. Which can therefore never be subjected to any development either, because it has been perfect from the very beginning. Truth is real, it is “being”! Only being is true life. The entire Universe is “supported” by this Truth! –
Therefore only that which issues from the Truth is really living; everything else is subject to transformation through death. For this reason only that which issues from the Truth will alone continue to exist, and everything else will perish. Finally nothing will remain in existence but the Word of the Lord, which issues from the Light and from the Truth, and can only be brought by Messengers of God, who themselves stand in the Light and the Truth, who are thus really alive within themselves. No human spirit, no spirit in the beyond, is in a position to do this. There is no possibility whatsoever for it to do so. For this reason those things thought out by the human mind and recognised by the human spirit can never bear genuine life within them. They remain theories and recognitions, which lack the power of the Living Truth.
To awaken to life through the Word means: To awaken to the recognition of the Truth! As a sleeping person can be awakened to the day, so one who is spiritually dead is awakened to the recognition of the Truth through the Living Word. However, just as he who has been awakened from sleep to the day can never become the day itself, so also the one awakened from spiritual death to the Living Truth will not himself as the same time thereby become Life! He will only have his eyes opened for the recognition of this Life. He can never himself become Life or Truth, but only wander on their paths! He becomes one raised from the dead.
Here, too, the Word of Christ is also to be applied: “Let the dead bury the dead!” That means: Let the many people who wish to be leaders and teachers go on teaching those who absolutely want to listen to them, and who thus systematically close themselves to the Living Word. Let these dead leaders with their dead words quietly bury their deadlisteners for ever, and therewith exclude them from the possibility of an awakening, But you who are seriously seeking, do not listen to these!
This applies not only to the many sects and societies, but also to the false dogmas of all the great religions. At present no congregation follows the actual true path. Neither zeal nor enthusiasm will help to put right the signposts which, through human cleverness, have often been quite wrongly placed on the right path. Whoever trusts in them will never reach the goal, even with the best inner abilities.
Every one who genuinely exerts himself for it will discover the meaning of what has thereby been said. However, it requires deep reflection, selfless searching. Such is not for those who think they already know, or for superficiality!
Peace and Light
Peter
Do you believe in God if so why, or if not why not? Recently I was told of a priest that came on television and was I believe retiring, but he never believed in God it was just a job.
I was amazed that a person could take on such a position and not to believe in God.How could a person do a job without believing in what he did or preached, to people that may of came to him for enlightenment of the Creator.
surely he should not have been in the position he was in!
Peace and light
Peter
Hi PJ .
I have been speaking elsewhere regarding labels and as far as labels go GOD is as good as any other .
If we break down and evaluate the God label or any other labels what happens is a that we give birth to more labels that seemingly point to the first .
Some would say the more one tries to understand or relate to a label one is not any closer to pin pointing what that is .
So from a particular perspective one is having belief in a label .
What does God point to if not another label .
x daz x
Hi PJ .
I have been speaking elsewhere regarding labels and as far as labels go GOD is as good as any other .
If we break down and evaluate the God label or any other labels what happens is a that we give birth to more labels that seemingly point to the first .
Some would say the more one tries to understand or relate to a label one is not any closer to pin pointing what that is .
So from a particular perspective one is having belief in a label .
What does God point to if not another label .
x daz x
Hi
I am afraid I do not like discussing God as a label, God is God. If you could put it another way perhaps!
Peace and light
Peter
Hi
I am afraid I do not like discussing God as a label, God is God. If you could put it another way perhaps!Peace and light
Peter
Hi Pete .
You mean use another label to describe God? ..
Like 'truth" or 'Love' or 'Reality' ... Perhaps ..
x daz x
Hi Peter
the word truth keeps coming up on many of the threads that I discuss, this is my perception of truth from an author that I followed very closely, I would like your opinions on it.
Question: What is Truth?
I perceive that as something that the writer perceived to be true for them at the time of them writing it, that was their belief in the judgemental perception of truth that was in opposition to their judgemental perception of falseness, I also perceive your own current beliefs within your response.
But my own life experience as well as my desire to help others has led me to the knowing (which is a little different to a belief) that at the route of everyones pain and suffering is judgement, if we wish to be whole then we need to let go of our judgemental ways of being which is creating inner judgemental divisional conflicts.
It led me to the knowing that if we choose to perceiving ourselves to be better or worse than others then we will create inner and outer divisional conflict, perceiving that something is right or wrong, true or false, good or evil are all human judgemental beliefs that people choose to embrace so that they can create inner divisional conflicts that manifests as pain and suffering in their life experience, this is neither right or wrong, it is simply a personal choice that they have chosen to embrace utilising their free will that forms what is.
When I finally understood this concept and choose to step outside of my judgemental way of being, I encounter something that I had not encountered before which is the oneness of consciousness, I found within the oneness that there is no right or wrong, no good or bad, no higher or lower, I did not encounter any judgements at all, I only encountered acceptance and wholeness within the oneness of consciousness because all is one, I have found that the oneness deals with the reality of what is in an open and non-judgemental way and helps everyone to fulfil their own life experience within this reality based upon their chosen core way of being.
I have chosen to embrace what I perceived within the oneness of consciousness within my own life experience, I have done this because it creates and maintains my own inner harmony and wholeness within the fullness of self, it also allows me to help others to be healed into wholeness.
At the end of the day, whatever we choose to perceive to be true, will become true for us until something else comes along which conflicts with that chosen perception of truth and then we have a conflict which is two or more conflicting thought patterns and/or beliefs at the same time. 
Hi Pete .
You mean use another label to describe God? ..
Like 'truth" or 'Love' or 'Reality' ... Perhaps ..
x daz x
I describe God as God, or as the Creator. I will use your labels refer them as pointers, as pointing to different directions away or to Him, but there is only one God, and no matter how many pointers, they all point towards God the beginning, of every thing no matter what direction they are pointing..
If you keep looking you will find that there is only the one God, many people keep searching for the truth, and when they find it it does not necessarily mean that they accept it,or recognise it
Peace and Light
Peter
Hi
the word truth keeps coming up on many of the threads that I discuss, this is my perception of truth from an author that I followed very closely, I would like your opinions on it.
Question: What is Truth?Answer: Truth is the Eternal-Unchangeable! Which never changes in its form, but is as it has been eternally and will ever remain, as it is now. Which can therefore never be subjected to any development either, because it has been perfect from the very beginning. Truth is real, it is “being”! Only being is true life. The entire Universe is “supported” by this Truth! –
I assume that is where the author's reply finishes?
Would be good to know which book and author you're talking about.... why don't you want to tell us?
In terms of this question and answer above, I would agree that, philosophically speaking, it is an accurate answer of what truth is. This is very similar to the explanation of truth given in the philosophical teachings of Advaita, the same philosophy upon which Hinduism is based... that which changes cannot be the truth as the truth is unchangable. For example, true love is the love that exists without any conditions, for love that attaches to conditions is love that will change when the conditions are not met... but true love has no conditions and will not change.
I assume the following are your own words... ? (perhaps you could help us if you're quoting an author to put it in quotes (literal quotes or forum quote tags, or just a different font or colour) so that we can differentiate what you're quoting from what you yourself are saying)
Therefore only that which issues from the Truth is really living; everything else is subject to transformation through death. For this reason only that which issues from the Truth will alone continue to exist, and everything else will perish. Finally nothing will remain in existence but the Word of the Lord, which issues from the Light and from the Truth, and can only be brought by Messengers of God, who themselves stand in the Light and the Truth, who are thus really alive within themselves. No human spirit, no spirit in the beyond, is in a position to do this. There is no possibility whatsoever for it to do so. For this reason those things thought out by the human mind and recognised by the human spirit can never bear genuine life within them. They remain theories and recognitions, which lack the power of the Living Truth.
I'm not quite sure how we get from the unchangeable truth to what is described in this paragraph. It's as though we've taken truth, applied a good helping of religion and made some unsubstantiated connection that purports to tell us that a belief in God is the Truth. We're missing some important link here that actually crosses that gap.
To awaken to life through the Word means: To awaken to the recognition of the Truth! As a sleeping person can be awakened to the day, so one who is spiritually dead is awakened to the recognition of the Truth through the Living Word. However, just as he who has been awakened from sleep to the day can never become the day itself, so also the one awakened from spiritual death to the Living Truth will not himself as the same time thereby become Life! He will only have his eyes opened for the recognition of this Life. He can never himself become Life or Truth, but only wander on their paths! He becomes one raised from the dead.
Here, too, the Word of Christ is also to be applied: “Let the dead bury the dead!” That means: Let the many people who wish to be leaders and teachers go on teaching those who absolutely want to listen to them, and who thus systematically close themselves to the Living Word. Let these dead leaders with their dead words quietly bury their deadlisteners for ever, and therewith exclude them from the possibility of an awakening, But you who are seriously seeking, do not listen to these!
Ok, things are getting confusing.
So you're saying that people should find the truth themselves and not follow the teachings of others, otherwise they are limiting themselves and are, metephorically speaking, dead in the spiritual sense. But then you yourself are consistently recommending people watch certain DVD's or youtube videos, or read certain books, and you maintain that you know the truth from reading a particular book... but that is itself just the teachings of another person so, by your own definition, you would be spiritually dead yourself? Perhaps I'm missing something (like actually knowing what this book is called and it's author), but this isn't making sense.
This applies not only to the many sects and societies, but also to the false dogmas of all the great religions. At present no congregation follows the actual true path. Neither zeal nor enthusiasm will help to put right the signposts which, through human cleverness, have often been quite wrongly placed on the right path. Whoever trusts in them will never reach the goal, even with the best inner abilities.
Well, I'd agree that people who just blindly follow the teachings of others without putting them to the test themselves to know that information to be true, are not going to better themselves that way.
Every one who genuinely exerts himself for it will discover the meaning of what has thereby been said. However, it requires deep reflection, selfless searching. Such is not for those who think they already know, or for superficiality!
Would you say that you know the truth?
All Love and Reiki Hugs
I describe God as God, or as the Creator. I will use your labels refer them as pointers, as pointing to different directions away or to Him, but there is only one God, and no matter how many pointers, they all point towards God the beginning, of every thing no matter what direction they are pointing..
If you keep looking you will find that there is only the one God, many people keep searching for the truth, and when they find it it does not necessarily mean that they accept it,or recognise it
Peace and Light
Peter
Hi Pete .
Remove the label God and remove the label creator and what is left of this one God .
What is beyond the label .
x daz x
Hi Pete .
Remove the label God and remove the label creator and what is left of this one God .
What is beyond the label .
x daz x
Are you playing mind games?
I've known Daz on here since he joined, and whilst he likes a laugh like most, I think it's not a mind game but a serious question, as I believe daz is what you would refer to as "a believer" himself, and often refers his games and jokes to the relevant forums and threads...
If you take the label "God" or "Creator" away from what you are calling it, then what is it you are referring to by these labels? No mind games, a serious question... in your own words.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Are you playing mind games?
Hi Pete .
Nope . No Mind Games .
It's a genuine question .
It's is however all mindful .
Tell me about God that doesn't point to another Label?
x daz x
I've known Daz on here since he joined, and whilst he likes a laugh like most,
Who Me? 
I think it's not a mind game but a serious question, as I believe daz is what you would refer to as "a believer" himself, and often refers his games and jokes to the relevant forums and threads...
It's a real simple yet complexed suggestion Giles . Believe/belief is just another label to describe / relate to another .
Without an identification to the label there is no God nor belief .
As you know I have seemingly explored many avenues that relate to Self or God . It is all of that and at the same time none of that .
What is a rose prior to one calling it a rose .
x daz x
What is a rose prior to one calling it a rose .
The idea of a rose. :p
The idea of a rose. :p
Or should I add Principled ..
'what was a rose prior to an Idea that it is a rose' . :p
x daz x
Hi Pete .
Nope . No Mind Games .
It's a genuine question .
It's is however all mindful .
Tell me about God that doesn't point to another Label?
x daz x
hi daz
I apologize if I appear rude, but I get attacked by so many people who do not believe I assumed you were one of them.
I can't answer the question because I don't understand it, how can you explain about the Creator of everything, when you do not understand everything in creation.
Peace and light
Peter
What is a rose prior to one calling it a rose .
It would still be whatever it was after it was called a rose. The naming doesn't change the rose. It does change our ability to talk about and to think about the rose. Labelling is a human way of making sense of roses and of gods.
Or should I add Principled ..
'what was a rose prior to an Idea that it is a rose' . :p
x daz x
Hi
coming back again here, is likely more clear on the question not the sort of question I would ask is I don't know whether anybody else would understand it either.
God is God, God has always been, God is love, you can't look at the beginning ,unless you know the beginning and God has always been.
we cannot even work out the material, talk about the spiritual.
Peace and light
Peter
It would still be whatever it was after it was called a rose. The naming doesn't change the rose. It does change our ability to talk about and to think about the rose. Labelling is a human way of making sense of roses and of gods.
Yes, it's the subjective quality that creates the label.
Just as the label of God is a subjective quality created by us...
So, just what is that 'thing' that is being objectified through subjective qualification?
In my view it's the need to seperate, or create duality... a need to see something 'other' and seperate from our Self, a need created within the mind to trick us into believing we are not all just One. :rolleyes:
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Hi Peter, missed your post earlier as we posted about the same time.
Hi
coming back again here, is likely more clear on the question not the sort of question I would ask is I don't know whether anybody else would understand it either.
I guess that depends... the question makes sense to me.
God is God, God has always been, God is love, you can't look at the beginning ,unless you know the beginning and God has always been.
we cannot even work out the material, talk about the spiritual.
Can you explain for me (genuinely I don't get it)... how God can always have been and yet you say there was a beginning (I assume that's the point at which Creation took place). How can you have a beginning when there always has been? Those two contradict each other.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Hi Peter, missed your post earlier as we posted about the same time.
I guess that depends... the question makes sense to me.
Can you explain for me (genuinely I don't get it)... how God can always have been and yet you say there was a beginning (I assume that's the point at which Creation took place). How can you have a beginning when there always has been? Those two contradict each other.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Hi
We are talking about two things here, God who has always been, do not ask me beyond this or why because I could not answer it,God is God.
Creation is another answer,, but there was a beginning of the Creation, so two separate things and at two separate answers, knowing how Creation came into being you need to read the book I read and I have mentioned here before.
Peace and light
Peter
Ok, so if I've got this right... God and Creation are two seperate things, and God existed before the beginning of Creation?
Just saying "God is God" doesn't really say anything, it's says as much as saying that Green is Green... just a label of something subjective.
It still doesn't answer how God can have always been and yet there was a beginning.... which leads me to these thoughts...
I guess, fundamentally speaking, we can look back at the history of numbers as, in the early days of mankind, the number 0 didn't exist, it was a concept that the human mind couldn't grasp because it had no substance to it. Even in the calender there was no year 0... it just went from (effectively) 1BC to 1AD. When the early mathematicians started to recognise a need for zero this helped them in resolving some of the mathematical problems they had been trying to solve, but it was a major upheaval to the number system, and was oft disputed by classical mathematicians, however it was found to be necessary. The one problem with zero was that it also introduced the problem of infinity (zero and infinity are intrinsically linked), and this was a major problem for the religions of the world, as only God could be everything, yet this mathematical infinity was implying a universe greater than their concept (at that time) of God. The point is that there were times when infinity was a concept that people just never even considered, and even today many people struggle to comprehend (probably because the mind doesn't have enough capacity for the infinite), and because people couldn't comprehend infinity (or hadn't even considered it), it's likely that, when they looked at the passage of time, they had to give it a beginning; some starting point to measure from; and thus the idea that the universe as they knew it had a beginning, meant that it has to have been Created at that beginning... but if it was "created" then who created it... it must be some superior being... someone with the power to create the Earth, the Sun and Moon, the stars and all living things; someone who could control the weather and change the landscape with earthquakes... thus it must have been a God who existed to create the Creation... and the concept of how God existed before the beginning was a matter that could not be fathomed, and so mankind deemed that he was a mere mortal and only God could know these things. As such, it's easy to see how the creation of the "God" label (concept of God) came about for mankind... with so many unexplainable things, and no concept of infinity, and thus how Creation was an given part of that understanding.
(if you're interested have a read of Zero - The Biography of a Dangerous Idea, very good book).
Nowadays, the concept of infinity is better understood, and the idea that there must have been a beginning or Creation, is just that... an idea... with no evidence. Admittedly, even though the quantum astrophysicists of today are coming out with details of multiple universes, and universes that have always existed throughout infinite time (expanding and contracting with multiple "big bangs" (to use that term loosely)), those themselves are theories and ideas, still yet to be proven.
Am I right in assuming the book you're referring to is "In the Light of Truth" as on this website: [url]The Grail Message | Table of Contents[/url]
and not "In the Light of the Truth" as quoted earlier in this thread; as I cannot find a book by the latter name.
If so, I'll take a look at reading it.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Hi
coming back again here, is likely more clear on the question not the sort of question I would ask is I don't know whether anybody else would understand it either.God is God, God has always been, God is love, you can't look at the beginning ,unless you know the beginning and God has always been.
we cannot even work out the material, talk about the spiritual.Peace and light
Peter
I can relate to God is Love pete and it is possible that what has always been always will be but in terms of intellectual evaluation what one concludes to be this and to be that will always change .
The intellectual mind requires satisfaction in something whatever it maybe 'be it God' or self or whatever .
So in order for satisfaction one will make sense of something even if something doesn't make sense one will be satisfied that it doesn't make sense .
God is Love are labels used to evaluate something that makes sense to you .
Prior to the rose and prior to God and Love there was nothing to make sense of in one respect .
Tis what you make it as they say ..
The truth of that also derives through mindful evaluation and through association with an understanding that the labels mean what they say ..
So on one hand when we break down the labels there is nothing left, there isn't even nothing left because 'nothing' is a label ..
If there isn't even nothing what is there?
God?
x daz x