Do you believe in God?

We need God, God does not need us

Hello Peter
Welcome:)

I like some of your thoughts and view on god.

I grew up in a strong christian family. at the age of 12 I read the new testament through twice and thought it was a wonderful book. I read through the bible but struggled with the comparison with the old and new testament. However it was when I had the thought about how sinners would be treated and about the commandments to be obeys that caused a change in my belief. I mean sinners for example for just such small things like thinking or speaking wrongly I expect everyone does each day. I felt they were such a suppression in todays society.

I thought how can an all loving god speak about his children in this way? to talk about punishment? when you mentioned " god does not need us" I agree and feel in a way enforces my new direction. I dont know why I should need a non loving god? I cannot find a reason.

There was an element of feeling I was cheated,mis lead, and what I felt an annoyance of being lied to through all my upbringing about a picture of god.

Today I remain 'neutural' not a believer as I used to be, an element is still there but expect it will be from conditioning. but still open to what life brings me with a view to question anything that comes to me as claiming to be connected or is an element of some form to god.

I have met leaders of god in churches whom by their character does not set a representation to keeping in with the church as a good faith. but seemed as just the way the job goes.

In my view I felt the image of god serves people for a time that is needed for them in their lives, maybe that was the case for me?, once that time has healed for whatever purpose , then the value of a god to them doesnt seem as needy anymore.
People created a god because they needed one.

.:)

Blessings

Sacrel

But that “there is only one God” is also your opinion.

Hi Crowan,

I hope you don't mind me butting in on Peter's answer, but I just wanted to share. I think it all comes down to what we perceive God to be. That is where the many opinions come in.

However, if you understand God (another word for Good) to be a universal divine Principle that is absolute Truth, that lifts it out and oabove human and religious opinions.

I love these words of Mary Baker Eddy's

God
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

The Truth I’m talking about is the absolute Truth that is spiritual, like 2+2=4, which never began, will never change and will never end. In other words, something that is eternal and infinite. To me, Life is God and God is Life. Love is God and God is Love. Truth is God and God is Truth. Immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.

Take those words of Eddy’s above: They can also be put into these other terms:

Life
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

Love
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

Truth
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

But I also believe Jesus when he said “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32) – he understood the universal laws of the universe and was able to demonstrate his complete control of all the limitations of matter. To me, vague theorising isn’t enough – I have to have proof.

I will let my friend Tony say the rest as I agree with every word he has written. He is a student and practitioner of Christian Science. (He gave me permission to share this)

I think that there is an absolute truth, and I believe that absolute truth is God, good. I also follow a religious walk devoted to discerning, uncovering, and even demonstrating that Truth (with a capital "T") in healing. However, I genuinely respect the spiritual walk that others are taking in their own search for Truth, and I have found that I can learn from believers of other faiths and of none, as well as from literature and art.

I also respect those who conscientiously believe that there is no absolute truth, and I share their concerns about the attitudes of absolutists who are dogmatic in preaching that only their way has any truth to it. I don't think that the problem is with Truth being absolute, though. I think the problem arises when a denomination thinks it IS that Truth - rather than being a lens through which that Truth can be viewed - or that it has a monopoly on Truth.

Truth, to be Truth, has to be universal. Can you imagine if the laws of gravity applied only in one location? Or if you were only able to benefit from them if you happen to be a paid-up member of a particular gravity-believers club? Gravity-believers might feel that they can do a better job of harnessing the laws of gravity in their own lives and for the common good, because they are more focused on understanding those laws and are in discussion with others who have already proved their many wonderful applications. They can never, however, have more access to those laws than other believers or even non-believers.

So it is, I feel, with God's goodness. It is available impartially for all and it can, and does, work through all people - whatever denominational label we wear, or even if we shun all such labels, or consider ourselves humanists, agnostics, and atheists.

Tony Lobl

I thought how can an all loving god speak about his children in this way? to talk about punishment? when you mentioned " god does not need us" I agree and feel in a way enforces my new direction. I dont know why I should need a non loving god? I cannot find a reason.

There was an element of feeling I was cheated,mis lead, and what I felt an annoyance of being lied to through all my upbringing about a picture of god.

Today I remain 'neutural' not a believer as I used to be, an element is still there but expect it will be from conditioning. but still open to what life brings me with a view to question anything that comes to me as claiming to be connected or is an element of some form to god.
l

Hi Sacrel,

Now I'm butting in on your post to Peter! I was very moved by your account and totally understand where you're coming from. It reminded me of this healing of a tumour and the change of thought that led up to it:

[url]MY JOURNEY FROM 'TERMINAL' TO JOYFUL AND HEALTHY*/*Christian Science Sentinel[/url]

The author had been diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor, and told she had two months to live and her marriage was on the rocks. [In fact, her husband left her - kind of him when she was dying!] She also suffered from chronic depression. She'd been raised in a devout Christian family, but her childhood had not been happy.

“I believed that God was going to "get me," if my daddy didn't first. Love and God were just empty words to me in a religious climate where the emphasis was on hellfire and brimstone.”

But then she started questioning. Though at that time she didn’t feel she deserved a different verdict from the diagnosis, she rebelled against the idea that a loving God could deliberately deprive two little boys of their mother. She finally concluded that it was impossible for God to be so cruel to two innocent children.

“One day, I finally came to an incredible place of peace. Although I still wasn’t sure that I knew who God was, I could feel this presence with me, and I somehow knew that my boys were going to be fine, whatever happened to me….

As I lay there, I thought about God. Was He kind and loving? Did He have something to do with this peace that I’d found about leaving my boys? Then the most revolutionary (and funny) thought came. All those years in Sunday School had taught me my Bible pretty well. I remembered that in the Old Testament there was all this talk about smiting—the Israelites smiting so and so, and being smitten by so and so. But now, I knew, God wasn’t “up there” with a big “smite button,” and He would never say that today was my day to be the one who gets the smiting! It sounded so crazy that I laughed out loud. At that moment I knew that there was an answer for me—and that it would be a spiritual answer.”

It's that feeling of indescribable peace that comes just before a spiritual healing that always makes me know and feel the presence of God, infinite Love. And to me, it's all about Love, not wrath, punishment and hell.

There are many accounts from people who have had near death experiences of seeing individuals in "hell" but it is a hell of their own making and exists only in their own consciousness, but in all the accounts I've read, there is a light (the Christ) right next to them, but they are so obsessed with their own hatred, cravings or misery, that they don't see it or reach out for it. I've also read accounts which say that people on the other side actually experience the pain they have caused others and that makes perfect sense to me, as the way that evil is destroyed is by destroying itself - through suffering.

I've just done an edit to add that re: the Old Testament punishments - you know it was written thousands of years ago and by many different men, of varying degrees of spiritual understanding (no, I don't believe that God dictated every word of the Bible!) In ancient days, men might see a bolt of lightning strike a village and kill innocent children, but they didn't understand how nature works and the explanation they came up with was that the villagers must have sinned and were being punished. This was passed down orally from generation to generation. But there are many sublime passages of inspiration and revelation in the Hebrew Scriptures, plus incidents of the superiority of Spirit over matter, so don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Peter,

Now I've finally got round to answering you! 😉

do you believe that God spoke to us in other ways other than through the Bible?

Absolutely, except that i would say "speaks" rather than "spoke"!

Why should inspiration and revelation just stop?

Love and peace,

Judy

Truth

Hi Crowan,

I hope you don't mind me butting in on Peter's answer, but I just wanted to share. I think it all comes down to what we perceive God to be. That is where the many opinions come in.

However, if you understand God (another word for Good) to be a universal divine Principle that is absolute Truth, that lifts it out and oabove human and religious opinions.

I love these words of Mary Baker Eddy's

God
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

The Truth I’m talking about is the absolute Truth that is spiritual, like 2+2=4, which never began, will never change and will never end. In other words, something that is eternal and infinite. To me, Life is God and God is Life. Love is God and God is Love. Truth is God and God is Truth. Immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.

Take those words of Eddy’s above: They can also be put into these other terms:

Life
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

Love
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

Truth
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

But I also believe Jesus when he said “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32) – he understood the universal laws of the universe and was able to demonstrate his complete control of all the limitations of matter. To me, vague theorising isn’t enough – I have to have proof.

I will let my friend Tony say the rest as I agree with every word he has written. He is a student and practitioner of Christian Science. (He gave me permission to share this)

Hi
please don't worry about butting in on the discussion, I intend to draw as many people as possible into it, I am very pleased that you have joined and are giving opinions that are a very valid, I have enclosed a passage on "What Is Truth", this is not my own work but I would love you to read it and pass comment on it.
I also believe God to be an Eternal and also Truth, in the divine Realm I do believe they' know anything but the truth, and to experience lies, an envoy from the Light has to come to the earth before they would know what a lie is.

Question: What is Truth?

Answer: Truth is the Eternal-Unchangeable! Which never changes in its form, but is as it has been eternally and will ever remain, as it is now. Which can therefore never be subjected to any development either, because it has been perfect from the very beginning. Truth is real, it is “being”! Only being is true life. The entire Universe is “supported” by this Truth! –

Therefore only that which issues from the Truth is really living; everything else is subject to transformation through death. For this reason only that which issues from the Truth will alone continue to exist, and everything else will perish. Finally nothing will remain in existence but the Word of the Lord, which issues from the Light and from the Truth, and can only be brought by Messengers of God, who themselves stand in the Light and the Truth, who are thus really alive within themselves. No human spirit, no spirit in the beyond, is in a position to do this. There is no possibility whatsoever for it to do so. For this reason those things thought out by the human mind and recognised by the human spirit can never bear genuine life within them. They remain theories and recognitions, which lack the power of the Living Truth.

To awaken to life through the Word means: To awaken to the recognition of the Truth! As a sleeping person can be awakened to the day, so one who is spiritually dead is awakened to the recognition of the Truth through the Living Word. However, just as he who has been awakened from sleep to the day can never become the day itself, so also the one awakened from spiritual death to the Living Truth will not himself as the same time thereby become Life! He will only have his eyes opened for the recognition of this Life. He can never himself become Life or Truth, but only wander on their paths! He becomes one raised from the dead.

Here, too, the Word of Christ is also to be applied: “Let the dead bury the dead!” That means: Let the many people who wish to be leaders and teachers go on teaching those who absolutely want to listen to them, and who thus systematically close themselves to the Living Word. Let these dead leaders with their dead words quietly bury their deadlisteners for ever, and therewith exclude them from the possibility of an awakening, But you who are seriously seeking, do not listen to these!

This applies not only to the many sects and societies, but also to the false dogmas of all the great religions. At present no congregation follows the actual true path. Neither zeal nor enthusiasm will help to put right the signposts which, through human cleverness, have often been quite wrongly placed on the right path. Whoever trusts in them will never reach the goal, even with the best inner abilities.

Every one who genuinely exerts himself for it will discover the meaning of what has thereby been said. However, it requires deep reflection, selfless searching. Such is not for those who think they already know, or for superficiality!

Peace and light
Peter