RE: inteligent design
Since we've talked on other things caveman, and I know Patsy is also interested in anomalous data pertaining to advanced civilisations in the past which are now unrecorded ...
For decades, people such as Graham Hancock have written of a seeming great global catastrophe circa 10,500 BC. Also for decades, others have published anomalous data in the geological record suggestive of human civilisation stretching back far longer in time than presently accepted.
If we consider such past civilisations, and realise that we ourselves are involved in genetic engineering, who's to say "who" created this or that species?
It's said for example that pigs are more similar to humans in internal structure than anything else. Could pigs be an obscene experiment to blend human DNA with something else? Was human DNA itself altered overnight? As a hypothesis I wouldn't discount interventionism, which is not evolution.
V
RE: inteligent design
ORIGINAL: caveman
ORIGINAL: songstress
Life on earth - ah! Yep, a miracle if one considers the apparentbarren-ness of the Universe, but it evolved due to:The Earth's distance from the Sun.
The presence of volcanoes and lightening.
The presence of oxygen, carbon dioxideand hydrogen in the early atmosphere, which in turn, created water.
Amino acids.
The presence of the giant planet Jupiter.
A proven theory? The theory of evolution is no longer a theory. It's a proven fact that life evolved, and is still doing so. Life evolved within and according to the laws of nature. I think God did have a hand in it, but it wasn't done outside the natural laws.
Patsy.I have to agree with you there Patsy. I don't know the details but I'm sure scientists have concluded that this is the basic building blocks of life, and how it needs to come about. It IS proven.
eh? make up your mind, caveman... right after the original posting of this by patsy, you said
Are we talking about life as 'life' in the physical sense or life as spirit or soul? If we believe we each are a spirit within a physical body, how would the spirit be explained? This cannot be explained by x+y=spirit, and therefore required some ID behind it ie. GOD and cannot be explained by natural law - can it?
or are you bones-ing, from star trek, "its not life as we know it, jim!" 😀
patsy,
i didnt say i didnt like your explanation... i actually said
"ithink you're confusing issues here as i never mentioned "evolution or questioned its credibility, so i'm not sure why you threw that red herring in there as you know the question was about "the birth of life on this planet".
evolution doesnt explain the BEGINNING of life, how it first started, came to be... it explains... evolving of life that is in existence.
i thought yesterday was "pick on patsy" day anyway! 😉
and talking of loaves and fishes... yeah whats that all about? 😮
p.s. i wish the thread title could be corrected!! [8D]
RE: inteligent design
To quote myself, the ultimate in ego :D:
ORIGINAL: venetian
If we consider such past civilisations, and realise that we ourselves are involved in genetic engineering, who's to say "who" created this or that species?
I should add that the existence of civilisations far, far earlier than currently accepted would have changed life even without any high tech. A basic civilisation would do it. We change species around us all the time. Didn't all breeds of dog come from wolves? - and man has bred all the different types, from chihuahua (sp?) to labrador, bulldog, or greyhound. That isn't evolution at all and most of these species are very badly adapted to survival.
We've done the same with different - massively different - breeds of horses, cattle, you name it. Luther Burbank created the grapefruit. And we change flora too. All this has happened in just a few centuries. Imagine how THAT would look in the fossil record!
So the point is that different species or sub-species could have appeared suddenly by all kinds of means. ANd some do appear to - well, appear - very suddenly. It may not all be due to evolution. Caveman has an interest in UFOs so - I needn't take that one further too?
Rosie - loaves and fishes. I thought people new their gospels well enough that if I just said that it would be enough. Patsy is asking for examples of miracles. So I'm asking in reply if the miracle of taking (I forget the exact numbers) something like five fish and three loaves of bread, and multiplying them to feed 3,000 who'd gone into the wilderness to hear Christ speak is the kind of miracle she means? There are two such accounts in the gospels. This isn't "natural law" is it?
V
RE: inteligent design
hi V,
course i know the gospels [&:]! (i'm not that much of a heathen!) when you first mentioned the fishes, i thought, yeah, wasnt that a supposed miracle, but i thought, as patsy asked me so nicely, i'd go for the "big un"!
but, yeah... how is the loaves and fishes explained? or does it get explained by saying its just a story? 2 loaves and 5 fishes i think... fed lots, 5000? didnt thatcomic double act re-en-act it? or was it paul daniels? 😮
RE: inteligent design
Or is the fishes story another red herring, to quote you above?