RE: Bad past life regression experience?
V,
Yes, I've come across the theosophists theory before.... doesn't hold much weight with me though. How any figure can be put onto the number of spirits/souls in the infiniteness of the universe is beyond me, and how anyone can think that humans are so superior that other animals and entities/life forms cannot take on a spirit is just a joke IMHO.
Moonfeather,
ORIGINAL: Moonfeather
May I add my own theory - that since our spirits can split up into uncounted facets in order to experience limitless choices, it's a simple matter for us to add even more facets should there be a population explosion.
Now, that's a little more in line with my more complex explanation that I wasn't going to get into cos I'm making an effort not to waffle on... 😀 I was just sticking with a simple theory for the above "atheist boyfriend" scenario.
Love and Reiki Hugs
RE: Bad past life regression experience?
Hi Giles,
Well, it's in the nature of these things that obviously there's no proof of the normal sort for any model of how 'numbers and reincarnation' works. 😉 It's a question of what resonates with one, but further study can change opinion too.
No, it's not nine billion 'souls' in the infinite universe (!), but nine billion appointed to earth. The viewpoint has it that this planet has a 'ring-pass-not' around it: we don't go to reincarnate elsewhere (as I wrote), and others don't basically come here. So it's all about earth.
As for animals and reincarnation - a big and different subject! Have you heard of group souls? Animals have group souls and are quite different to the Theosophical view to humans who have individual souls. Let's see if I can think of one or two quick points here....
Hinduism would have it, in many sects, that if we have bad karma we could even reincarnate as a toad, say, or spider, or a slug, whatever. Does that really seem reasonable for a human personality, when reincarnation studies indicate (see posts above) that we do reincarnate consistently as humans and retain many character traits from life to life? If we are divine beings, as humans, would we really reincarnate as a stick insect? 😉
The resistance to thinking of humans as being superior to animals is similar IMHO to things such as white guilt (when personally we did no wrong anyhow), etc, etc. (Wanting to put ourselves down, which is nice and modest in a way.) Animals don't wage war, would be the argument: but that's because they cannot do a lot of things. (Species such as ants do go to war, and even dolphins murder each other, alas.) But this is a whole different subject - of the difference between humans and other lifeforms. In short, there's an individuality to us, and that individuality reincarnates - but animals have group souls to which they return, like a drop returning to a sea. Animals, this view goes, are a part of God too, but not in the same way we are: we are individualisations of God.
Anyway, cannot be proved scientifically, needless to say - so it must remain an individual opinion. 😉 (I do feel Hinduism is somewhat crippled by that belief, mind you, when people hold it strongly.) With a wry smile, just as you find it a joke, I find it silly - sorry!!! - that people believe we could reincarnate as a baboon or a centipede! [&o]
V
RE: Bad past life regression experience?
ORIGINAL: venetian
No, it's not nine billion 'souls' in the infinite universe (!), but nine billion appointed to earth. The viewpoint has it that this planet has a 'ring-pass-not' around it: we don't go to reincarnate elsewhere (as I wrote), and others don't basically come here. So it's all about earth.
But all energy, whether physical or soul energy is part of the whole universe. I can't understand why anyone would restrict the things to just the earth....
Hinduism would have it, in many sects, that if we have bad karma we could even reincarnate as a toad, say, or spider, or a slug, whatever. Does that really seem reasonable for a human personality, when reincarnation studies indicate (see posts above) that we do reincarnate consistently as humans and retain many character traits from life to life? If we are divine beings, as humans, would we really reincarnate as a stick insect? 😉
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's possible to carry out re-incarnation studies by asking humans questions about things that they could not reasonably know about otherwise, however there are many out there who also believe that they were once part of the animal kindom or that they experience things they can't explain, such as you may get in a totally alien environment perhaps. How many re-incarnation studies ask the animals about their past-life experiences? Seems to be a little bit of a one-sided type study perhaps?
With a wry smile, just as you find it a joke, I find it silly - sorry!!! - that people believe we could reincarnate as a baboon or a centipede! [&o]
Don't be sorry, we're all entitled to our own beliefs and I know you have strong connections with your own beliefs V, and I respect you for that.
I still see no reason why a spirit/soul should not re-incarnate as a baboon, centipede, stick insect or any other life form. Each life will provide a learning experience, and why should it only be learned from the perspective of a human?
Love and Reiki Hugs
RE: Bad past life regression experience?
ORIGINAL: Energylz
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's possible to carry out re-incarnation studies by asking humans questions about things that they could not reasonably know about otherwise, however there are many out there who also believe that they were once part of the animal kindom
Do you know of the multitude of studies done on extremely large numbers of people in the scientific study into reincarnation? Helen Wambach is just one among many who has published classic books on her hypnotic regression studies - in which there's no obvious suggestion as to what people should recall. People were in past lives invariably human, and the events of today seem often to be a continuation of themes ongoing from past human lives. Looking at the population of the earth as it has been in all past centuries and in different parts of the globe, it is extremely telling and suggestive that these remembrances are real because the spread of recalled lives geographically an dover time ties in to the actual populations over time and place.
But no-one was a panther or a fly. 😉
Professor Stevenson of the SPR has spent a lifetime researching what he calls "cases suggestive of reincarnation" in which children appear not to have forgotten their last life. He's followed up hundreds of these cases, and the children can lead him back to another part of the world and to the home and family they died from. They talk to the living family as if they really are the departed they say they are. But always human.
So putting belief and opinion aside, scientific research indicates that something like reincarnation is going on, and that it appears to be always human to human to human.
I don't know what you mean, Giles, about people who believe they were animals? This is a vague Hindu belief - but they are not actual recollections.
How many re-incarnation studies ask the animals about their past-life experiences? Seems to be a little bit of a one-sided type study perhaps?
A bit hard to do! 😀 And the regression studies - of which probably thousands of cases exist, quite apart from past life healings, and then the Stevenson body of research into people who recall their past without hypnosis don't point to any animal connection. These are just the actual facts which emerge from such studies...
BUT - should this be incorrect, I reckon I'll opt to take it easy for a while, and come back next time as a domestic cat. 🙂
V
RE: Bad past life regression experience?
Heya V,
I haven't had the opportunity to study specific research or studies into past life regression, I can only go on information I have gleaned from elsewhere and my own beliefs on these things. You are obviously better read in this area than I.
I don't discredit that humans may re-incarnate as humans but IMO it's perfectly possible that people may have also had past lives as an animal of some sort. It's believed by some that there is a period between incarnations where the spirit takes "time out" to review their previous life and to make plans for the new one (the life plan). Is it not possible therefore that this idea is put forward to fill in a gap between lifes when in fact the spirit could be incarnated as an animal; most animals having shorter lives on avarage than humans? Also the experiences gained from those animal lives may exist within the deep memories of our spirit as with other past lives, but in our current human form we can only understand and may even only seek out to look at past lives that are human as to look back on the animnal experiences are too unusual and difficult to comprehend with our current human understanding.
I myself have experienced things which you may attribute to OOBE's; things that seem too real and vivid to be a dream, but things that are obviously in the past as well. Some of these experiences appear to be in strange environments that you just wouldn't see as a human, one such being flying around the plants in a garden, and thinking about it now, it would be the same sort of experience you would expect a fly or bee to see. I've never really considered that before.... [sm=flylicker.gif]. I'd always assumed I was flying around in my current human body, but thinking about it, I never actually saw my body.
About asking the animals for their past life experiences.... exactly... it's a bit hard to do, so we can only go on the one-sided experience of humans.
If I could choose to come back as an animal I think I'd be a bird of some sort. Soaring in the sky seems like it would be sooooo wonderful.
Love and Reiki Hugs