I'm presuming most of you heard the story about the hapless accountant who wrote an 'inappropriate' Tweet about blowing up an airport, but in case you didn't, here's the story:
Am I the only one who finds this quite frightening??? What the hell is happening to our country that you can get punished for a throw-away remark made at a moment of frustration? Has our justice system gone COMPLETELY mad?
David Mitchell wrote a good response to it:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/16/britain-turns-serious-david-mitchell?CMP=twt_gu
It amazes me that I read the most horrendous racist and xenophobic comments spread widely across the internet in the run-up to the election in this country. So it's okay to allow people to stir up hatred in this way, but punish someone for making a foolish, but ultimately harmless statement? As much as the racism repulses me, at least those people were exercising their freedom of speech.
It really makes me wonder what you are allowed to say now. I have been known to have a dark sense of humour at times, from now on I will think twice about ANYTHING I write.
It seems to me that "they", whoever "they" are, want to keep us in a state of fear, so it justifies them exercising an extreme and unreasonable level of control. What is going on?
tigerlily does this surprise you, we cannot say anything now
I think the key point, when I heard the story, was that the Police didn't know what Twitter is. Mr Chambers said that he had to explain Twitter to them from first principles. If this is true then I find it utterly incredible that the anti-terrorism arm of the Police force don't know what Twitter is. Mind-bogglingly ignorant, IMHO. So, if they don't know what Twitter is then this explains their extreme over-reaction to Mr Chambers' tweet.
Whilst, I absolutely love David Mitchell and agree with every word of his article - I do think it was bloody stupid for Mr Chambers to write what he did. The Police told him the reason he was being interrogated was because this is "the world we live in" now. We each have to be sensible and make a shift in what we say and do. Just like those who think blacks/Jews/lesbians/Irish et al have no sense of humor when jokes are made about them... people still struggle with anti-discrimination laws which have been with us since the 80's. I think in years to come we'll be equally incredulous that someone could be so ignorant/stupid to find making a comment about blowing up an airport amusing.
I have a Twitter account and a Facebook account. I'd never write something racist/sexist/homophobic/violent in either - mainly because I don't find that sort of thing amusing, but equally because I don't want to have to explain to an employer/future employer that my bigoted comment was meant to be "a joke".
Ava x
I wonder what this young man will learn from this 'lesson' i wonder how his public hummiliation, the loss of his livelyhood and the long term consequences of a criminal record will impact on his life and those who depend/or come to depend on him will be???/
I wonder what this 'sledgehammer to crack a nut' approach says about us as a society???
I find it worrysome...
Well I don't find his remark funny, either. And it was a bloody stupid and unintelligent remark to make. But I wonder how many of us could be caught out in a moment of frustration saying something inappropriate? This is the problem with the digital age. It gets 'published' to potentially thousands or even millions of people.
It is the age we live in, unfortunately.
Did Kenny Everett ever get into serious trouble for saying 'Let's bomb Russia!!' at that Conservative Party Conference all those years ago? That's an honest question, BTW... was just wondering...
I think people forget that their comments are actually being read by people on these sites. It almost becomes a stream of consciousness.
Just to add, as far as I'm aware, stupidity is not a crime... yet!
Just to add, as far as I'm aware, stupidity is not a crime... yet!
Unfortunately stupidity is a crime, and ignorance cannot be used as a legal defense.
Yes, you are right it is absolutely a sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut approach - and I 100% agree with what David Mitchell said. However the problem is that you can indeed say something stupid/ignorant/bigoted out of frustration - and yes, I'm sure we all do in an unguarded moment. However... and the big however... is don't be an utter stupid fool and make your ill-advised comment on a PUBLIC networking site like Twitter or Facebook. Or on television or on the radio or when speaking at a conference or in a published piece of writing. Where Mr Chambers went wrong (and he is an accountant, so he is no dummy) is that he made his stupid comment on a public networking site to his **600** followers.
Did Kenny Everett ever get into serious trouble for saying 'Let's bomb Russia!!' at that Conservative Party Conference all those years ago? That's an honest question, BTW... was just wondering...
That predates the anti-terror legislation though - which were fast-tracked in late 2001/early 2002. Kenny died in 1995, so whenever he said that it was before the 2002 laws came in.
Ava x
p.s. I don't mean to debate with you. I do agree that it's over the top. But, well, as the Police said - it's the world we live in now. So, just like you can't say anything 'funny' that is racist, you also can't say anything 'funny' that involves bombs.
But people do say things that are racist, not even 'funny' things on public sites. Aren't there anti-discrimination laws or laws about inciting hatred? I didn't hear about anyone being prosecuted over that in the run-up to the election.
I am aware when the anti-terror laws came in, my question was a genuine one, whether he got into serious trouble, it wasn't rhetorical in any way.
The punishment for this man far outweighed his actions, in my opinion.
The punishment for this man far outweighed his actions, in my opinion.
I hear you, loud and clear. As I said in both my posts: "I don't mean to debate with you. I do agree that it's over the top. But, well, as the Police said - it's the world we live in now."
That's just the way it is. I guess if you feel strongly that it's wrong then there may be civil liberty groups you could become involved with to campaign against these new laws. But hey... I'm an innocent party here... I've got nothing to do with the Police or the laws or indeed Mr Chambers - so don't shoot the messenger :0
Ava x
I am aware when the anti-terror laws came in, my question was a genuine one, whether he got into serious trouble, it wasn't rhetorical in any way.
Oops, sorry, missed this bit. I think I answered this question by saying that he couldn't have got in trouble for it because he died in 1995, and the anti-terror laws came in in 2002. I don't think they would prosecute someone (him) posthumously? Is that what you were asking me? If so, I don't know and am not sure I would know how to find out that info for you.
Ava x
Hi everyone,
While I totally agree that this was an “over the top” reaction, having worked in the airline industry for over 30 years, I see the bigger picture. Unfortunately, every single day, airports get bomb threats, (sometimes several a day) which have to be assessed as to their seriousness. This all takes a huge amount of time, manpower and money, so there really has to be a zero-tolerance attitude towards it. Basically, anyone caught making a terrorist threat, no matter how stupid, gets investigated and charged.
So don’t even (I’m sure you wouldn’t!) for instance, when going through the security search, joke that you have a bomb in your suitcase or anything similar, because you’ll find that there will be no trip for you and you may even spend some nights in a police cell and more.
Sadly, it really is the times we live in. There are many real threats out there and even if the ones that are published are a joke, or a prank, they all have to be treated with the same seriousness. Also, ask yourself, if his name wasn’t Paul Chambers, but say, Yusuf Mahommed, writing that joke on Twitter, would you feel it was so unjustified? But the police have to treat everyone equally or they would be accused of racism. Also, think how often when there have been terrorist attacks and it turns out that the police have been aware of a tenuous link to one of the organisations, they have been severely criticised for not acting. So it’s a case of they get damned if they do and they get damned if they don’t.
Moral of the story – don’t be an idiot and don’t make stupid terrorist-type threats.
Judy
Oops, sorry, missed this bit. I think I answered this question by saying that he couldn't have got in trouble for it because he died in 1995, and the anti-terror laws came in in 2002. I don't think they would prosecute someone (him) posthumously? Is that what you were asking me? If so, I don't know and am not sure I would know how to find out that info for you.
That question wasn't aimed at you specifically, Ava. I know that they wouldn't prosecute him under anti-terror laws, posthumously, as you put it. I'm also aware of when Kenny Everett died, that's not big news. It was a genuine question as to whether he got into any serious trouble for it at the time.
so don't shoot the messenger :0
Apologies if you've taken offense at my bluntness.
Judy, it's interesting to hear your perspective. I wasn't aware that threats come in everyday. You obviously have some experience of this.
It still scares me, though. I said once on my Facebook status that I'd like to shoot Lady GaGa with a canon. There's probably a law somewhere that could get me into trouble for saying that!! I don't own a canon, by the way. If I did it would be used strictly for shooting myself out of it, Gonzo from Muppets style.
It was a genuine question as to whether he got into any serious trouble for it at the time.
Probably not. But the reason why is because of what we've all been saying: this is the world we live in now. Things have changed since 09/11 and there are things you could do prior to that which you'll never be able to do again.
Apologies if you've taken offense at my bluntness.
No problem - no offense taken. I thought I'd irritated you... and was just reminding you that I'm not the one you should be annoyed at. Yes, we are all agreed that it isn't fair. But Judy made a fine point that if Mr Chambers had been a Mr Mohammed... then I doubt this would have been picked up by the papers.
Re your Lady Gaga comment - that wouldn't do anything - it needs to be a bombing or assassination (killing of a public figure for political purposes) threat before the Police would be interested. So, you can aim your Facebook cannon at her till your heart's delight!
Ava x
Hi Tiger,
I agree with Ava - I think you're pretty safe with personal comments! 😀
I just remembered too that Big Brother is constantly scanning the internet, some emails and phone calls etc for certain words. that ring alarm bells. It wouldn't surprise me if that Twitter comment had already been seen and ignored, but when the airport manager reported it, they had to act.
Hopefully, if we live good and decent lives, we have nothing to fear! I remember flying to South Africa during the Apartheid years and my friends used to get terrified if I spoke out about anything in public - like talking over dinner in a restaurant. There really was an atmosphere of fear, hatred and intimidation there. Friends who came over couldn't believe what we are allowed to say on, for instance, Question Time. Even in Singapore where I grew up, a friend from church who was on the managing committee of the YWCA told me about a Chinese woman who suddenly burst into tears during a committee meeting and said she couldn't go on, that she had to confess that she was a government spy, told to join and get involved so she could report if anyone said anything anti-government - and that's a benign dictatorship!
We don't have anything like that loss of freedom here, (yet) so let's be grateful, but never take our freedom of speech for granted - or abuse it!
Judy
We don't have anything like that loss of freedom here, (yet) so let's be grateful, but never take our freedom of speech for granted - or abuse it!
This is a trivial example, but local governments are asking folk to spy on each other wrt to their neighbours' recycling habits [see: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278957/Beware-bin-snooper-door-Residents-asked-report-neighbours-putting-rubbish-early-late.html ]. You are asked to keep a record sheet of when your neighbours put their rubbish out - and report them to the council if there are infractions.
Ava x