Your personal recollection may be, and is, somewhat different to mine of the 'winter of discontent'.
You don't like the 'first past the post' system that gave us Mrs Thatcher and everybody else throughout our political history?
If the proportional representation system were in place it would have given us what we have now - a coalition. Which I'm guessing you don't like either!
What else would you prefer? A one party state?
In politics, as in life, you have to take the rough with the smooth.
Your personal recollection may be, and is, somewhat different to mine of the 'winter of discontent'.
I’m not sure what you think is “personal recollection” in my post. Try reading it again.
You don't like the 'first past the post' system that gave us Mrs Thatcher and everybody else throughout our political history?
If the proportional representation system were in place it would have given us what we have now - a coalition. Which I'm guessing you don't like either!
What else would you prefer? A one party state?
In politics, as in life, you have to take the rough with the smooth.
And I don’t know why you’ve leapt off at a tangent. Certainly, our electoral system is a discussion that could be had – although this leaping to conclusions about what I’d like is a bit odd. However, if you want to have that discussion, how about starting a different thread? I’d be happy to join in, but it isn’t what we were talking about.
In fact you know little about my beliefs and political views.
I’m not sure what you think is “personal recollection” in my post. Try reading it again.
And I don’t know why you’ve leapt off at a tangent. Certainly, our electoral system is a discussion that could be had – although this leaping to conclusions about what I’d like is a bit odd. However, if you want to have that discussion, how about starting a different thread? I’d be happy to join in, but it isn’t what we were talking about.
In fact you know little about my beliefs and political views.
My reading of your version of the 'Winter of Discontent' is that it wasn't as bad as people say and was largely invented and blown-up by the press. That would seem to be a fair analysis of what you wrote.
I got it wrong? You voted for Mrs Thatcher and you support Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg?
My reading of your version of the 'Winter of Discontent' is that it wasn't as bad as people say and was largely invented and blown-up by the press. That would seem to be a fair analysis of what you wrote.
This is not my personal recollection. As I said in my post, what I remember is tabloid headlines. (Such as “Crisis? What Crisis?” – attributed to Callaghan, but invented by The Sun headline writers.) I am aware, however, that headlines are not necessarily truth. There have been several sociological studies done of the time – The University of Bath did one, I recall. These come to the same conclusions that I have.
I got it wrong? You voted for Mrs Thatcher and you support Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg?
Fair enough. But then, I said,
In fact you know little about my beliefs and political views.
Emphasis on “little”. Describing my political views as, “Voted against Thatcher. Does not support the Coalition.” is a bit like describing a strict vegan as “doesn’t eat chicken or bacon”. Politics is rather more complicated than that, because people are.
Incidentally, proportional representation would not have given us a coalition. That is a result of “first-past-the-post” when a party has too few votes to form a government.
Fair enough. But then, I said, Emphasis on “little”. Describing my political views as, “Voted against Thatcher. Does not support the Coalition.” is a bit like describing a strict vegan as “doesn’t eat chicken or bacon”. Politics is rather more complicated than that, because people are.
Incidentally, proportional representation would not have given us a coalition. That is a result of “first-past-the-post” when a party has too few votes to form a government.
True. But in post 57 you did own up to reading The Guardian! Which might be a bit of a clue.
PR wouldn't have given us a coalition? What would it have given us?
True. But in post 57 you did own up to reading The Guardian! Which might be a bit of a clue.
Own up! Now there’s an interesting phrase. If I’d thought it was something to have to ‘own up’ to I probably wouldn’t have mentioned it. So (in your opinion) that puts me somewhat left of centre? Well, I’ll ‘own up’ to that also. But be aware, the Guardian has right wing readers and correspondents as well. The paper tries to cover both (or all) sides of any contentious issue. In fact, over the time since Thatcher’s death and funeral, the letters’ page has looked a bit as it has here on HP!
So – I’m left of centre. And you could probably glean a bit more about me by trawling though my past posts (but I’m sure you have better things to do). You’d still have to jump to a few conclusions to say anything meaningful. And I think there’s been too many assumptions made by too many people on this thread already.
PR wouldn't have given us a coalition? What would it have given us?
The Coalition came about because without it the Conservatives could not have formed a majority government and those in power tend not to like minority governments. So they formed a pact with the Lib-Dems. The results were achieved through a first-past-the-post system.
But you are probably aware that most people’s votes don’t matter. For example, I have lived all my adult life in safe seats. The incumbant each had such a majority that a vote for them or against them did not count. This is why only marginal seats are ever really fought.
With PP, each vote would count. We would still have the party who got most votes forming a government. But we would have MPs in the proportions in which they were voted for.
A) Own up! Now there’s an interesting phrase. If I’d thought it was something to have to ‘own up’ to I probably wouldn’t have mentioned it. So (in your opinion) that puts me somewhat left of centre? Well, I’ll ‘own up’ to that also.
B) So – I’m left of centre. And you could probably glean a bit more about me by trawling though my past posts
C) (but I’m sure you have better things to do).
D) The Coalition came about because without it the Conservatives could not have formed a majority government and those in power tend not to like minority governments. So they formed a pact with the Lib-Dems. The results were achieved through a first-past-the-post system.
E) With PP, each vote would count. We would still have the party who got most votes forming a government. But we would have MPs in the proportions in which they were voted for.
This thread is getting a bit inane.
A) It was a joke. Don't take it personally.
B) I could.
C) I do.
D) Spot on.
E) Yes, we would have ended up with a Conservative - Lib Dem coalition!
I always find emoticons are invaluable to indicate when joking - especially if it is
uncharacteristic! :p
Wow - just seen that this thread has 157 likes!!! Imagine if someone reads the
OP and sees 157 likes ..... just saying. Of course it's been a pitched battle involving
supports in both directions, e.g. the likes.
I thought it was one of the more interesting threads on this site, involving a
vigorous debate. I learnt more about her that both shocked and further
consolidated my original feelings (with thanks to Reiki Pixie and John Pilger).
Unfortunately the debate seemed to quickly descend into repetition, tedium and
worse - personal attacks - ah well. :rolleyes:
In the grand scheme of things ...
This thread is getting a bit inane.
A) It was a joke. Don't take it personally.
B) I could.
C) I do.
D) Spot on.
E) Yes, we would have ended up with a Conservative - Lib Dem coalition!
A), B), C), D) - I know
E) Not necessarily. There are several methods that could have been used. At least one would have given the Tories overall control.
Yes, the thread got inane - most do. Which is one reason I prefer to stick to facts over this silly to and fro batting. Let's get back to an indepth discussion of Thatcherite politics, then. This means doing more than just trying to score points.
Let's get back to an indepth discussion of Thatcherite politics, then.
I've a better idea. Lets draw a line under it and forget about it.
Personally, my issue was never with politics anyway, only the immorality of mocking and bad-mouthing the dead, especially when they hadn't even been buried.
In 1982 I was on board a North Sea ferry (MV Norland) on my way to a distant island that no one had heard of. Whilst I was there my son was born However I wasnt told I had a son until the conflict was over. I lost a few good mates during that time and at times I was scared like you cannot imagine. This was all because the PM at the time had ordered us to go to war. Having said all that I don't know of anyone who served in the forces at that time who would have anything bad to say about Maggie. She looked after and loved her boys. Like someone said she divided a nation.R.I.P
In 1982 I was on board a North Sea ferry (MV Norland) on my way to a distant island that no one had heard of. Whilst I was there my son was born However I wasnt told I had a son until the conflict was over. I lost a few good mates during that time and at times I was scared like you cannot imagine. This was all because the PM at the time had ordered us to go to war. Having said all that I don't know of anyone who served in the forces at that time who would have anything bad to say about Maggie. She looked after and loved her boys. Like someone said she divided a nation.R.I.P
I'm surprised you say that the forces had nothing bad to say about Maggie in the light of what happened to HMS Sheffield.
I guess she looked after all her boys except the 20 that died then, in retaliation to her controversial order resulting in the sinking of the Belgrano? :dft002:
My point is even though we were sent to war we still had the greatest of respect for her. Now I'm not going to go any further on this as I can see you feel very strongly about it. No one wins any war it is down to who loses best.Sorry but that is war and unfortunately lives are lost including as I said a lot of my friends. That is my last word on this thread.
Given the releases by the National Archives this new year, has anyone changed their mind about Thatcher?