It's a worry isn't it....I really don't know what else to say:o...heres the link to the BBC report

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7104945.stm

xxx

PLEASE, PLEASE DO NO GET ME STARTED ON THIS GOVERNMENT'S ****-UPS!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

the sooner I can emigrate, the better.

And for the record, I was never an advocate for the ID system - and after yesterday's fiasco, it would be a nightmare to even think of introducing them here.

Love (and sorry for the shouting! but I meant it!!!!).:)

PLEASE, PLEASE DO NO GET ME STARTED ON THIS GOVERNMENT'S ****-UPS!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

I find it strange that everybody blames the Government for this. As I understand, it was a breach of the guidelines laid down for the protection of data. This is an obvious Gross breach of procedures by the person concerned and the departmental manager whose responsibility is to monitor and ensure that his/her staff is up to speed with procedures. IMHO this should result in instant dismissal for both if it is found that they failed to implement or breached those procedures.
I also think the government should be transparent and insure that the discipline procedures for gross misconduct are seen publicly to be enforced. Not covered up as seems IMO to be popular with this, or in fact any government.

I find it strange that everybody blames the Government for this. As I understand, it was a breach of the guidelines laid down for the protection of data. This is an obvious Gross breach of procedures by the person concerned and the departmental manager whose responsibility is to monitor and ensure that his/her staff is up to speed with procedures. IMHO this should result in instant dismissal for both if it is found that they failed to implement or breached those procedures.

Ahhh well now that you put it like that, I'm sure all those concerned feel assured and will sleep soooo much better at night!

Well there you have it people, problem solved eh? :rollaugh::rollaugh::rollaugh:

Healistic, of course I will blame the Government. After all this is a government department over which Alastair Darling has responsibility. Who else should we blame?

I find it startlingly appalling that these CDs were allowed to be posted without any form of backup docs, if that happened where I worked - especially with the confidentially we have to adhere to, we would be dismissed - no question.

I daresay that the offender will get their knuckes wrapped, told not to do it again and then carry on working until they reach 55 and get their final salary pension.

Grrrrr

So… I wanna know, those of us who were happy to buy into the ID Card system… do you/we still want all our details all in one place and controlled by individuals as slap dash as this?

Of course not!

But unless individuals controlling our data are vigorously monitored and disciplined when in breach of procedures then they will remain slap dash.

Healistic, of course I will blame the Government. After all this is a government department over which Alastair Darling has responsibility. Who else should we blame?

As far as I was aware unless someone can say different, is that there was no problem with the proccedures in place, just the application.

I find it startlingly appalling that these CDs were allowed to be posted without any form of backup docs, if that happened where I worked - especially with the confidentially we have to adhere to, we would be dismissed - no question.

I personally would never post data of this nature I would ensure that a member of my team would personally deliver it.

I daresay that the offender will get their knuckes wrapped, told not to do it again and then carry on working until they reach 55 and get their final salary pension.
Grrrrr

Here we agree and this is the problem that we all need to know is being addressed.

Of course not!

But unless individuals controlling our data are vigorously monitored and disciplined when in breach of procedures then they will remain slap dash.

So forgive me if I 'don't quite get' - but even if you had all the 'involved' rounded up and sacked... how in heavens earth will it solve this problem?

I mean what is it about the existence of 'human error' that in 250,000 years of walking upright can we not accept as a reality?
Once we know & accept that this upsetting reality is never gonna go away (as lets face - we all of us are prone to it (I dunno, maybe you've never made a mistake - I know I've made plenty) - If we accept that Healistic, and then we consider (as Sue so rightly and loudly eluded to) all the 'systems' that the Govt has tried to put into place - especially when it includes the implementation of technology that is managed by half-interested employess - employed in their droves - and the right royal %*^& -ups they've made of them....all of them almost without exception (that is truely shocking isn't it?)

Why then are we hell bent on putting all our personal and sensitive information all in one place and one place only - to yet again be managed by roughly the same organisation, with the same type of people.
And all I hear is "well if you don't want an ID card... then you must have something to hide?"

The problem has happened, it's out there... there will be people having things bought and agreed in their name, incurring untold debts trying desperately to say - "Yes it says John Smith at my address with my ID details ... but honest it wasn't me and it aint my debt"

So, tell me how sacking the kid who failed to send the discs 'recorded delivery' while thinking about where he was going that Friday night is gonna help one iota?
:confused:

So forgive me if I 'don't quite get' - but even if you had all the 'involved' rounded up and sacked... how in heavens earth will it solve this problem?

I mean what is it about the existence of 'human error' that in 250,000 years of walking upright can we not accept as a reality?
Once we know & accept that this upsetting reality is never gonna go away (as lets face - we all of us are prone to it (I dunno, maybe you've never made a mistake - I know I've made plenty) - If we accept that Healistic, and then we consider (as Sue so rightly and loudly eluded to) all the 'systems' that the Govt has tried to put into place - especially when it includes the implementation of technology that is managed by half-interested employess - employed in their droves - and the right royal %*^& -ups they've made of them....all of them almost without exception (that is truely shocking isn't it?)

Of course it is and yes we all make mistakes some small and some large. But by the same token this was not a mistake as such this was a “gross dereliction of duty”. This dereliction of duty could have been brought about by a lack of instruction and a failure by management to keep on top of individual workers commitment to procedures. It is about time that those responsible for keeping sensitive data are made aware of the consequences of their failures and that those consequences are shown to be rigorously applied. Until we make people understand the importance and responsibility of their positions then we will always be on a looser. Yes this is where the buck stops with the government. It is their responsibility to ensure that this never happens again, if it does then I will be the first to ask for the government to resign. I don't know if he did but If I was Darling I would have gone in with all guns blazing and demanded to know all what happened and when I found out those responsible, booted all the miscreants out for gross misconduct with loss of pension. I would not just sit on my A*** and wait for them to concoct a story and then email it too me. Hands on Darling not hands off.

BLAST I HAVE SHOT MYSELF IN THE FOOT. :banghead:
So if darling did not go and personally call them one by one into a spare office and demand a statement off them. then yes I concure. DARLING MUST GO

Why then are we hell bent on putting all our personal and sensitive information all in one place and one place only - to yet again be managed by roughly the same organisation, with the same type of people.

Two places or two or even three could make it worse if we cant look after it in one place what makes you think we could in more than one?

And all I hear is "well if you don't want an ID card... then you must have something to hide?"

I do not whant an ID card because I really do think that it could. with todays technology be more dangerous and open to fraud than anyone thinks.

The problem has happened, it's out there... there will be people having things bought and agreed in their name, incurring untold debts trying desperately to say - "Yes it says John Smith at my address with my ID details ... but honest it wasn't me and it aint my debt"

So, tell me how sacking the kid who failed to send the discs 'recorded delivery' while thinking about where he was going that Friday night is gonna help one iota?
:confused:

If sacking someone for gross dereliction of duty makes others take more care then I am sorry but he/she should be sacked and yes I would even say that anyone involved in dereliction of duty within the chain, should also be sacked. If that is proved to be as far as Darling then yes my darling you should also be sacked.

I think this is a conspiracy. Someone who doesn't want ID cards has infiltrated the Child Benefit system and "lost " those CDs.
They are using them to stop their houseplants from causing waterstains on their windowcills. Come on HPers which one of you was it? I have my suspicions........

Seriously - this is obviously human error. Is the department overstretched? (that's what was indicated on the Today programme this morning after the merging of the Inland Revenue and the benefits system with obvious communication benefits and perhaps an over-indulged opportunity for reduction of manpower) or did some-one come into work with a hangover and balls up big-time? Doubtless there will be a huge enquiry to find that out. My money is on the hangover.

Either way, it highlights our (ie us punters) vulnerability when are personal information is in anyone's hands. I've had so many arguments about this with a friend in local government. Her argument is that the way forward is to have open access between government departments so that government benefits can be more easily accessed and distributed - result - efficiency and happiness for the poor buggers with little skill in filling out all those application forms. Fortunately we both like cocktails so we are still friends.
Personally I don't like the fact that if I buy foreign currency they want my post-code! B******* to them. I hate it.
It is a dilemma . And we are uncomfortably sat on the horns of it.
Sharon.

If sacking someone for gross dereliction of duty makes others take more care then I am sorry but he/she should be sacked and yes I would even say that anyone involved in dereliction of duty within the chain, should also be sacked. If that is proved to be as far as Darling then yes my darling you should also be sacked.

Look, I don’t wanna shock ya Healistic, but if you sack one… then you employ another (this is civil service after all) …and guess what, you’ll employ somebody quite similar, on a similar wage… with, believe it or not similar make-up as an individual

Two places or two or even three could make it worse if we cant look after it in one place what makes you think we could in more than one?

Err… I dunno how but it seems to have slipped your notice but presently you have at least between 3 to 6 recognised but disparate ways to prove who you are and where you live – that my friend is why [currently] it is relatively easy to correct an error!
When it is (as proposed) all and only in one place – and god forbid an error occurs (what’s the chances eh?) – that person will find him/herself in a Kafa-esque nightmare as they will have no other recognised way to prove they are who they say they are.

Until we make people understand the importance and responsibility of their positions then we will always be on a looser. Yes this is where the buck stops with the government. It is their responsibility to ensure that this never happens again, if it does then I will be the first to ask for the government to resign.

May I humbly say Sir that it occurs to me, your request is somewhat long overdue,
Can I point you in the direction of: -

• Wrongly freed murder and rape prisoners
• The CSA disaster
• The Family Credit debacle
• The Tax Credits shambles
• The Fraudulent but granted Passport applications muddle
• The Illegal immigrants granted Security clearance and sensitive jobs joke
• The emergency services fiasco
• The non existence of WMDs in Iraq resulting in the deaths of 100’s of British Soldiers and £BN’s of tax payers money
• The NHS IT programme and database
• (I don’t even have one) But the Pension Fund raid
• The Probation Service Computer System ... & Other failed IT systems include
• Tax Self-assessment
• Post Office
• National Insurance
• the Prison Service ....
• The Northern Rock disaster
• Railtrack (anybody?) Etc…etc… ad infinitum…

So Healistic….

Just when exactly are you planning on being this mythical “first to ask for the Govt to resign”? :032:

And they still don't actually know how 'lost' they are yet, so I have to muse at everyone jumping to conclusions.

Maybe the disks arrived safely and have been sat in an envelope at the bottom of somebody's "in tray" waiting for them to get around to it.

😉

Giles, have a look at this timeline of this catalogue of errors:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7104368.stm

I would have thought that from 18 October to now, that is an awfully long time for something to be sitting in someone's intray. I know we are talking Civil Service, but that is stretching it.

Love

And they still don't actually know how 'lost' they are yet, so I have to muse at everyone jumping to conclusions.

Maybe the disks arrived safely and have been sat in an envelope at the bottom of somebody's "in tray" waiting for them to get around to it.

When the Chancellor starts to 'cack it' and tells every agency at his disposal (just dwell on that for a second) to search for em (which he did on the 10th) you can be pretty sure they aint sitting in no "in tray" Giles - even if they later tell us "it's OK, that's where we found em.":rolleyes: