I think it's cast aspersions, not dispersions :D. Sorry to make light, especially in view of the topic concerned, but it made me smile. Maybe this thread is going a little off topic, as suggested by Fadette :rolleyes:.
The Israeli-Palestine situation never fails to bring out strong emotions. This article from yesterday's Independent shows the impact of Israeli actions on the lives of ordinary Palestinians - not members of Hammas, 'agitators', or political activists (although even if they were, would Israel's actions be justifiable?), No, just ordinary people, like you and me, suffering because an inhumane policy, which is demonstrably not working (Hammas keep firing those rockets) is stubbornly clung to and collectively sanctioned by Western government failure to truly act and condemn. I wonder sometimes, when we use the word terrorist, who we should be talking about.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-other-side-of-the-gaza-blockade-1992076.html (hope the link works, but worth a read)
Elodie
It is sad to see this as it would be anywhere.
Taysir Al Burai is severely disabled. He requires round-the-clock medical care. If he were allowed to leave Gaza, he could make a full recovery. But Israel won't let him
Forgive me if I am wrong, but why can't he leave via Egypt?
Forgive me if I am wrong, but why can't he leave via Egypt?
Until now the Egyptian border has also been closed. It has only been opened temporarily in response to Israel's boarding of the relief ship. Until now no one has been permitted to enter or to leave. Except that there is a network of tunnels where goods are brought in clandestinely from Egypt. I don't suppose that's an option for a severely disabled child.
I have to say that I am surprised by some of the responses on this thread. It is indeed an emotive issue and I remember the last time the subject of Israel and its actions came up there were strong words written on HP and at least one member was banned as a result. Thus I don't want to get embroiled this time around. But I do think it's particularly ironic that the word 'terrorist' should be used so often in this context when the state of Israel came about largely because of the actions of Israeli terrorists who were, among other things, responsible for the murder of several British soldiers. For a race which suffered so horrendously during the Second World War, I find the collective policies of the Israeli government to be so lacking in humanity as to beggar belief.
Until now the Egyptian border has also been closed. It has only been opened temporarily in response to Israel's boarding of the relief ship. Until now no one has been permitted to enter or to leave. Except that there is a network of tunnels where goods are brought in clandestinely from Egypt. I don't suppose that's an option for a severely disabled child.
Yes you are right, but I was just attempting to point out that Israel is not the only country refusing access to/from Gaza. If we wish to chastise Israel because of this child, then surely we must also do the same with Egypt?
I find the collective policies of the Israeli government to be so lacking in humanity as to beggar belief.
Again you have a point, but again Israel is not the only country to be lacking in humanity. My whole point is that Israel did not refuse to allow the aid to be delivered. They offered access to a port and to send the aid by land after checking the cargo. That in itself could seem reasonable to some.
They offered access to a port and to send the aid by land after checking the cargo. That in itself could seem reasonable to some.
That's the problem, "official aid channels" filter the aid and its distribution is determinded at the political level. Direct aid is delivered to where it's needed to give maximum impact.
Myarka.
I've been shaking my head at some of the comments made here. On another thread regarding the bombing of Gaza, according to some Israel was above criticism because they're on 'our' side. When Iran questions the legitimacy of British ships being in its waters they're extremist monsters.
Half of the population of Gaza is made up of children. If Hamas wanted to encourage a new generation of activists into its ranks it couldn't do better than the job the Israeli government are doing. An enemy with nothing to lose is the most dangerous.
I've been shaking my head at some of the comments made here. On another thread regarding the bombing of Gaza, according to some Israel was above criticism because they're on 'our' side. When Iran questions the legitimacy of British ships being in its waters they're extremist monsters.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter...
Half of the population of Gaza is made up of children. If Hamas wanted to encourage a new generation of activists into its ranks it couldn't do better than the job the Israeli government are doing. An enemy with nothing to lose is the most dangerous.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it...
Sorry, I just felt I had to say something, but don't want to get embroiled either. So I stuck to the obvious... 😮 Now I feel better and can move on.
Sorry, I just felt I had to say something, but don't want to get embroiled either. So I stuck to the obvious... 😮 Now I feel better and can move on.
LOL, Scott, I know what you mean! I've been coming back here everyday but feel unable to comment as I don't want to have my cyber-head ripped off like poor Fadette! I'm holding a chair and a whip, circus lion-tamer style, so don't mess with me!
Other people have expressed themselves so beautifully, so I need not add anything else except where I stand.
In a nutshell, the Israeli government has behaved badly on too many occasions and in agreement with the very first post, I would also choose to have nothing to do with Israel.
There is pain on both sides being experienced by innocent people, let's just hope for, pray for and envision peace for all.
And peace for all here, as well!
Wow - lots of comment from both camps as it were.
There was always going to be trouble - annexing (a fine word for stealing) land and handing it over started back following the first world war (I think?). There has been trouble ever since.
So - where will it end? The US is cooling slightly but has a lot invested. The UK even announced the aid for Gaza - a sign of things changing a bit. Turkey must now have changed for the Israelies from a holiday destination to a dangerous destination, and even in the UK I expect to see more attacks on the Jewish community.
Iran or another arab country will get nuclear weapons - just to provide protection against Israel's never-declared nuclear arsenal.
The stakes are getting more desperate all the time.
The condemnation of the assaination caused quite a stir and words like terrorist were applied to Israel, I used the word pirates (and still do as I do not recognise Israel as a lagal state - and i'm not alone - even though it was my government that was aprt of the process of annexation).
It is likely to get worse rather than better.
Perhpas - what do you think?
chris
I haven't even looked at this thread till now. On a topic like this, I know how discussion is likely to go on HP - not unique to HP, but for almost any net forum.
Sorry to be less serious, but given the thread topic I also caught on with a smile to "cast dispersion". 🙂 It's said to be the whole theme and history of Jews - dispersion. An ironic error!
It is likely to get worse rather than better.
Perhpas - what do you think?chris
It's been very bad before: Israel was attacked from all sides by all surrounding nations, is it three or I think four times? And won. We don't have those wars now, because Egypt backed down from them. But in the last one there was a threat, during the Cold War, that the US would militarily enter in behind Israel, while Egypt was full of Soviet "advisors". So I wouldn't think it will get worse. Miracles happen: out of the blue one day, Egypt's President Sadat just flew into Israel and made lasting peace. That's proof that such solutions occur. Once Egypt backed out, out-and-out wars stopped and were impossible. Sadat did so well.
Going nuclear? When Iraq was producing nuclear weapons or beginning to try, Israel by air took out the factories. It's naive to think Iran isn't now doing that. But Israel in the end would also strike by air only: the only difficulty is that apparently one of two Iranian facilities is deep inside hills.
Iranian people themselves are very thoughtful, and not actually prone to extremism: we might see them topple their leadership for a non-fanatical style of government. There's room for hope, IMHO.
That's my penny's-worth, as it's such a large topic it could go on as long as the footie thread!
V
Iranian people themselves are very thoughtful, and not actually prone to extremism: we might see them topple their leadership for a non-fanatical style of government. There's room for hope, IMHO.
This interesting bit caught my attention in particular. Yes, the Iranian people are thoughtful - unlike former President Bush. Remember, Iran did have a moderate government and was beginning to come around to being more friendly. Until President Bush opened his less-than-thoughtful trap and lumped Iran into his "Axis of Evil" spin. The extremists in Iran latched on, convinced the people that the U.S. really didn't want a friendly Iran, overthrew the moderate government, and now we have an extremist and dangerous Iran. Sometimes you have to wonder what the motivation of the U.S. is (given "leaders" like George W. Bush).
This interesting bit caught my attention in particular. Yes, the Iranian people are thoughtful - unlike former President Bush. Remember, Iran did have a moderate government and was beginning to come around to being more friendly. Until President Bush opened his less-than-thoughtful trap and lumped Iran into his "Axis of Evil" spin. The extremists in Iran latched on, convinced the people that the U.S. really didn't want a friendly Iran, overthrew the moderate government, and now we have an extremist and dangerous Iran. Sometimes you have to wonder what the motivation of the U.S. is (given "leaders" like George W. Bush).
My experience of Iran is that the people there in general are not extremists. It's only months ago that Iran had riots against the government which were squashed by force. So it's the regime we face, not the people.
I was there during the reign of the Shah: however, he'd been set up to reign by the USA. Iran was safe then towards the West, but ruled somewhat brutally.
TBH I must have been out of the spin of Iranian news, as I don't recall it ever having a government that was moderate? Maybe I missed it in time. Under very mysterious circumstances, the Ayatollah was flown in so long ago now, the Shah overthrown, and the government was immediately fanatical. It still is. There was a moderate period in-between?
Yeah, the "axis of evil" thing was ridiculous. Bush hadn't really worked out what to say in response to 9/11, his speech was written by others, and I forget the details - the day before or something like, just an advisor came up with that term out of the blue: it was accepted and then they decided to lump various unconnected nations into it.
V
Shall I drop this into the thread?
It's a short video clip of an opinion from America, and it was sent to me by a friend in Israel, just to get that straight.
And also to say I have no personal opinion on it, and I don't know if what he says is true? He seems convinced it's true. But on a serious subject, I actually found him rather amusing at a couple of points, anyhow.
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/41437/?ck=1
V
I actually found him rather amusing at a couple of points, anyhow.
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/41437/?ck=1
V
Sarah Palin is a big fan of Glenn Beck, which says a lot. He once criticised George Bush for being too soft on Iraq after 9/11 "The idea is killing them faster than they can kill you..."
He's the voice or redneck America and has made his name by being provocative. It would be easy not to take him seriously if it wasn't for the fact that so many Americans consider him to be the voice of reason!
Sorry if I don't follow the link. I despise Glenn Beck and his ilk and refuse to view anything they post up. It saddens and angers me how many Americans are easily brainwashed by these guys.