Israel's behaviour is inexcusable. And the explanations and very questionable support we hear from Western politicians is inexcusable too.
That's me done.
Elodie
Just for the sake of balance, one more thing:
"I have seen some selective footage that the Israelis have chosen to put out suggesting that we responded with violence," she said. "You must remember that these are unarmed civilians on their own boat in the middle of the Mediterranean. People picked up what they could to defend themselves against armed, masked commandos who were shooting."
Elodie
I have heard that another ship has set off. I hope this time that they heave to when requested.
They are not private boats but chartered Ships.
well Israel's attack on the ship has been officially condemned in a few countries, such as France. I think (or hoping?) that tolerance is being reviewed with Obama's government regarding what is sometimes seen as tyranical behaviour.
I certainly think that had any other country, especially less "popular" country behaved similarly, there would be world wide condemnation and maybe even world conflict.
I dont think what is going on is leading to future peace, more the opposite and it will probably affect all Western countries.
I certainly think that had any other country, especially less "popular" country behaved similarly, there would be world wide condemnation and maybe even world conflict.
Check around the world.
well Israel's attack on the ship has been officially condemned in a few countries, such as France. I think (or hoping?) that tolerance is being reviewed with Obama's government regarding what is sometimes seen as tyranical behaviour.
France? How hypocritical after French special forces stormed AND SANK the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior!
From Wikipedia:
The sinking of the Rainbow Warrior, codenamed Opération Satanique[1], was an operation by the [url]"action" branch[/url] of the French foreign [url]intelligence services[/url], the Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure (DGSE), carried out on July 10, 1985. It aimed to sink the flagship of the Greenpeace fleet, the [url]Rainbow Warrior[/url] in the port of Auckland, [url]New Zealand[/url], to prevent her from interfering in a [url]nuclear test[/url] in Moruroa.
[url]Fernando Pereira[/url], a photographer, drowned on the sinking ship. Two French agents were arrested by the [url]New Zealand Police[/url] on passport fraud and immigration charges. They were charged with arson, conspiracy to commit arson, [url]willful damage[/url], and murder. As part of a plea bargain, they pleaded guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to ten years, of which they served just over two.
The scandal resulted in the resignation of the French Defence Minister [url]Charles Hernu[/url]. Twenty years later, a report by the then head of French Intelligence, said the attack was authorized by French President [url]François Mitterrand[/url].
Never again will I buy or have any dealings with anything from Isreal - never.
I will never vote again for any party that behaves like our past and current parties that support these people - never.My personal withdrawal will make no difference to Israel, or our political system. I know that.
It will make a difference to me - I welcome that.It costs nothing to behave well.
love
chris
Your actions as an individual may make hardly any difference, but if enough people did the same it would make a big difference. My father boycotted South African produce from the introduction of the Bantu Education Act in about 1950 until Mandela was released, over 40 years later.
As for Israel, their recent behaviour is par for the course. The State of Israel was set up by terrorists who kidnapped and murdered British soldiers, and massacred whole villages to terrorise the Palestinians into feeling the country. During WWII, Zionists had collaborated with the Nazis, both groups had the same objective which was for all Jews to leave Europe.
There is no justification for the Jews to have their own country- they are a religion not a race. If there had been empty land for them to settle, fair enough, but no way should they have been permitted to drive out the Palestinians and take their land.
Even if the present day Jews were direct descendants of the Jews whom the Romans expelled from Palestine in 70 AD (which they're not), what if everyone else went back to where they were 1,940 years ago? Ireland would get a bit crowded for a start, if the 30 million Irish Americans all decided to "come home". And they've only been away since the 19th century, most of them!
Hamas seem like obnoxious fanatics to me, but what do you expect? People turn to extremism when they feel they have nowhere else to go. So long as America backs Israel's every move, they will carry on as usual. And Obama will make no difference to that policy- his Vice President Joe Biden is an ardent Zionist, whom Obama appointed to appease the immensely powerful Zionist lobby.
There is no justification for the Jews to have their own country- they are a religion not a race. If there had been empty land for them to settle, fair enough, but no way should they have been permitted to drive out the Palestinians and take their land.
Jews are a race. Judaism is the religion.
You make it sound as if the Jews were the only race to drive out people to take their land.:confused: Check back in history;)
I don't think swhypo was suggesting that the Jews were the only group to drive another group out of their lands. It's just the topic of this thread.
Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews . Eventhough genetic research suggest a common ancestral gene pool, any one can potentially become Jewish. If you click on the this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_to_Judaism you can found out how.
Eventhough I'm sure the is good, honest, peaceful Jews, Muslims & Christians in that part of the world, their polictians and power classes are fascists, whether it's fascism based on race, class, or religion.
This Biblical idea of eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth doesn't work. As Gandi said it makes the world go blind.
What would be interesting is if a peaceful floatila of 100s boats went to Gaza, inviting the world press, with humantarian aid, how would the Zionist goverment of the Israeli State handle that?
Best Wishes
RP
Bannick, is your post telling us more about your personal feelings for Europe/france than you wish to?
it may come as a shock but France has had changes of governments since 1985. yes! just like other countries. amazing, isnt it? it makes it look suddenly more like its neighbours, say, like the UK. Who has had, like many countries in the world, its fair share of international "conflicts" (Argentine/Falklands...springs to mind).
so is the UK a big hypocrite for voicing any opinion in world matters? or is it just the one you dislike?
Bannick, is your post telling us more about your personal feelings for Europe/france than you wish to?
it may come as a shock but France has had changes of governments since 1985. yes! just like other countries. amazing, isnt it? it makes it look suddenly more like its neighbours, say, like the UK. Who has had, like many countries in the world, its fair share of international "conflicts" (Argentine/Falklands...springs to mind).
so is the UK a big hypocrite for voicing any opinion in world matters? or is it just the one you dislike?
I don't see why you feel the need to cast dispersions on my character as I was merely quoting history.
The Falklands had been under British rule for so long, all the people living there saw themselves as British, Argentina took the islands by force which started a conflict. How on earth you can compare this to the example I gave, I have no idea but the term "clutching at straws" springs to mind.
And yes, the UK is very hypocritical if you go back far enough in history we were among the worst (probably the worst in those days) but it's not exactly recent history, the whole world is a different place since those days.
good, Bannick, so now you can spare the sarcasm about France and continue discussing the thread's topic with a non judgmental view?
good, Bannick, so now you can spare the sarcasm about France and continue discussing the thread's topic with a non judgmental view?
I do not believe Bannick was being sarcastic or judgemental as such. just making a valid point about governments and ships.
I do not believe Bannick was being sarcastic or judgemental as such. just making a valid point about governments and ships.
Thank you, that was exactly the vein in which the post was made.
I think it's cast aspersions, not dispersions :D. Sorry to make light, especially in view of the topic concerned, but it made me smile. Maybe this thread is going a little off topic, as suggested by Fadette :rolleyes:.
The Israeli-Palestine situation never fails to bring out strong emotions. This article from yesterday's Independent shows the impact of Israeli actions on the lives of ordinary Palestinians - not members of Hammas, 'agitators', or political activists (although even if they were, would Israel's actions be justifiable?), No, just ordinary people, like you and me, suffering because an inhumane policy, which is demonstrably not working (Hammas keep firing those rockets) is stubbornly clung to and collectively sanctioned by Western government failure to truly act and condemn. I wonder sometimes, when we use the word terrorist, who we should be talking about.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-other-side-of-the-gaza-blockade-1992076.html (hope the link works, but worth a read)
Elodie