No, I didn't think you were for one minute, I am just soooo proud of what my daughter has achieved, through a great deal of adversity, that I had to get it in somewhere.
That is one thing I don't get, both my two kids had a hell of a lot to deal with while growing up, don't want to go into details, but it would make some of these so called 'deprived' kids look as though they had an easy ride. They had their moments, of course, like when my daughter and I (I think she was 12/13 ish) could not see eye to eye on anything, it was like we hated each other, and like when my son (8/9 ish) had such tantrums that he once pulled a wardrobe over in his room, and later on, if you asked him a question it would just be a grunt and shrug of the shoulders!! How come, they turned out so well?
What is it, that causes one sibling to be polite, charming and utterly switched on, whereas their brother/sister would be an absolute terror!? Surely siblings must have the same boundaries and upbringing, same amount of love...maybe not?
Anyway...got to plan some lessons!!:)
Crabapple xx
He stated that the standard of education and the curriculum here is low and that British pupils are not interested in learning or improving.
This interested me as I left secondary school teaching 6 years ago. Part of the reason I left is that I was so disillusioned with the standard of education here - from the low levels expected from pupils, to the low level of knowledge needed at each stage (including GCSEs and A'Levels).
This is a generalisation and I wouldn't say that all British pupils are like this but too many are. I have an Indian partner ...
Hi HappyGirl,
I have taught in a British University for over 25 years. I left for precisely the same reasons as you.
Many of our best lecturers left at the same time, for the same reason. Our external Moderator made the same comment from his experience in several Institutions of Higher Education.
His comment was simple "It's national!"
I agree with your partner also. He is absolutely correct.
Regards.
Prashna
That is one thing I don't get, both my two kids had a hell of a lot to deal with while growing up, don't want to go into details, but it would make some of these so called 'deprived' kids look as though they had an easy ride.
Good for your children - you're right to be proud. I agree- my partner grew up on the border of India/Bangladesh and for part of his childhood grew up in a civil war situation where they were constantly on the move between villages and there was fighting all around. He couldn't go to school for 2 years, didn't have a home for years, no elecricity etc etc. His family weren't wealthy or anything either - yet he got a doctorate in law.
I've also heard similar stories to prashna. My last school all the teachers who could were leaving in droves. Sad and worrying.
I have just been watching the Magdalene Sisters on DVD and got to thinking how there are a lot of past and present extremes
- upto the 70's single Mother's were revilled and being one just wasn't on, then the extreme came, zillions of them I remember the 'gymslip Mum' explosion of the early 80's now people moan they get everything, benefits, rent paid, free childcare etc, there was no happy medium.
- The film Scum, a disgusting past practice of treating young men in prison like animals, now we moan they have DVD's in their cells and PC's etc, again from one extreme to another no happy medium.
- Our appalling history in the slave trade, now we have young black boys selling drugs and shooting each other.
It all seems like a case of what comes around goes around to me.
What has all this got to do with education?
I campaign for democratic education and I am 100% on the kids side.
stuffing them all in the same uniform?
calling teachers Mr/Mrs and Sir but you call them by their first name?
you can't put 20 children in a class and expect them all to like the same subject.
many children in today's society do not have a sense of self worth from their homelife, but school makes it worse.
children learn when they are ready and when they do they excel in what they have chosen and ignore the rest rather than worry and fret about the rest and fail in what they enjoy along with everything else because they were too busy worrying about everything else to excel in what they enjoy.
chidren are wiser and much more clever than we think we live in a society which trusts them in a restaurant when they say they don't like fish fingers but we don't trust them enough to not like science.
the access to university is a classic example of a sticking plaster, the governments way of giving a second chance to adults to get into university because they couldn't go the first time round because they were bored rigid, treated like idiots and left labled underachievers.
I can understand why a parent would want the best for their children, never having to see them struggle etc and the answer for many parents is through education but life has taught me that I would rather have a happy, confident lavatory cleaner for a son or daughter rather than the many Dr's, accountants and other professionals I have had as clients (I am a counsellor) who used to traipse in my room every week and tell me how much they hated school, hated their parents for forcing them to 'do well', well if doing well is ending up in my office suicidle........great!
Peace and Love
Rebecca x
hi,
I think that on a positive note Aylebury council are planning to open a grammar school. I think it would be a good thing if this were repeated accross the country so that every town could have one.
On a more negative note the government intends to remove charitable status from independant schools so that only the super rich and Labour ministers could afford to send their children to them.
Hi Beckyboop922
You do make some valid points at the beginning of your post, and yes I agree that things have gone way too far, however I must question some of your latter quotes.
I campaign for democratic education and I am 100% on the kids side.
stuffing them all in the same uniform?
The idea of uniform is to give them an identity and a sense of belonging to a community, it also helps to avoid certain types of bullying, the type that arises from......my trainers are better than your trainers...etc. When I started teaching at my present school, they did not have a uniform, pupils wore what they liked and it was an absolute nightmare. They had a school council vote and opted for a uniform, they even chose the colours and the style. You have to wear uniforms in many jobs...don't you??
calling teachers Mr/Mrs and Sir but you call them by their first name?
It is called respect for your elders! It is to encourage them to act politely and respectfully to those who are older and 'wiser' than them. There are many professions where the boss is still referred to as Sir or Madam?
you can't put 20 children in a class and expect them all to like the same subject.
many children in today's society do not have a sense of self worth from their homelife, but school makes it worse.
Hmmmm...number 1...we don't expect them to like all the same subject, that is why they have options in years 10 and 11 (or 9 in some schools).
Number 2...it is not the schools fault that these children do not have self worth and it shouldn't necessarily be up to the schools to fix it! Having said that, you will find that most schools are very caring institutions nowadays, with teachers trained to identify children who have been affected adversely by society and/or their upbringing (parents) and then address these problems. I have a number of pupils who come to me at the end of the day, simply because I give them the time to listen....and most teachers do the same.
I could go on, but my biggest gripe with your post is that you seem to be very quick to point out all the faults, but I cannot see any suggestions to remedy it.....maybe you should become a teacher and see what it is like on the front line!;)
Crabapple xx
Hello Crabapple,
It's not you teachers I have an issue with, I am sure you do an excellent job under difficult circumstances.
You say I make no suggestions to remendy all the faults within the education system and your right I didn't, my views are considered by some to be extreme and the last thing I want is to cause a war on HP but here goes.
Re.e uniform, I understand and respect the point you make I was a victim of bullying throughout my school years, but I base all of my opinions regarding educating children on Alexander Sutherland Neils Summerhill school, no uniforms are worn then and there is no point in bullying a fellow pupil for wearing the wrong trainers because nobody can see what the children have on their feet because they are digusied in mud and dirt, the children are left to play, get flithy, be creative etc etc, allowed to be children to run, to shout, to have a voice, to choose which lessons they attend and which they don't, as a teacher yourself I have no doubt that you are aware the school was opened in 1921 as a social experiment to see what children would do when left to their own devices and given a choice in their own education, it's still open, Albert Lamb wrote a book as an adult about his experiences as a child there at age ten he was unable to write his own name today he is the cheif editor of the new york times, he chose English when he was ready, ignored what bored him and excelled in what he choose.
Re. what you said about the self worth issue I am in total agreement with you it is not and never should be a teachers responsibility to instill this in children it should come from the home, what I meant was many children are not honoured in the home, many are abused and many suffer loss of confidence in a million different ways all I am saying is if children were honoured as the special and unique individual people they are at school they would at least have one area of their lives where they feel honoured, I was mentally and physically abused for 31 years by my Mother and I remember feeling worthless as a child only to get to school to hear some teacher say "get here! pick that up, don't shout, don't laugh, don't stare out the window, are you stupid?"
Re. the Mr/Mrs and Sir issue, yes there are many jobs that depend on workers superiors being addressed this way, but children are born psychic full of wonder and we have a lot to learn from them if we are willing to listen it is for this reason I belive they are people first and children second what about showing them some respect, my Niece and Nephew attend school here in Spain they address their teachers by their first name, but they know how to show respect to their elders in other ways, there are better ways of teaching respect than via giving the child an inferiority complex.
A lot of it is cultural too following on from what you said about having to address people formally in work when we get to adulthood, but twice a week a have to go to my bank here in Marbella, the bank teller wears shorts and T shirt, sits on a swivel chair, legs up on the desk, smoking and playing a hand held computer game, I got annoyed at the length of time he takes to carry out my requests the other way so I asked to see the manager turns out he is the manager and everyone calls him Javier because that's his name, the bank is in business, things do get done and according to the Wednesday's newspaper the bank chain in question turned over 55 billion euros in profit last year.
If any point in my post caused you offence I apologise that was not my intention, I just see how special children are, how wise they are and how little they really do need us, I saw a friend in the mall the other day she had a child with her about 3 I bent down to say hello and my friend said to the child "say hello to Becky Mia" Doh! she was just about to, many assume children are idiots and they are far, far from it, I love to listen to them tell me all about their other lives before they came here, watch them laugh and play and be free, no child needs the worry or sats but least of all children from abusive and dysfunctional families who already have to deal with worries no child should have to deal with.
Last but not least I want to tell you the story of a letter that was written to Alexander Sutherland Niel by a former pupil of Summerhill who had left to go to Oxford, he wrote he could not cope with the constant noise the clattering down the stairs, loud voices and running in the corridors, all that was 'allowed' at Summerhill you see, so by the time this young man had got to uni he had outgrown his need to do such things, chidren are allowed to be children there and this young man was an especially late developer he didn't choose to learn until he was almost 12 before that he chose to make mud pies and occasionally went to chemistry class because he got to make homemade lemonade and fireworks, he's a teacher today for the Maria Montisorri schools.
Peace and Love
Becky
Hi Becky,
Thank you for your wonderful reply, it made really good reading. I will put my hands up to getting very defensive about education, as you may have guessed!:o As teachers, we know that the education today isn't the ideal situation, but I do believe that kids do still need some sort of structure to their lives, particularly if it is not there at home. I could often weep about the stories that I hear from some of my pupils....but feel so helpless....just cannot afford to get too involved!
I take your point about uniform, but will stick to my opinion and respect yours. Guess I am just from the old school...so to speak! The same goes for the sir/miss, its just like I can't get to grips with some kids calling their Mum and Dad by their first names!!
We really do need answers though, I appreciate your vision of school is good, if not idealistic, but in the current situation, I just don't feel it would work.
Anyway, I too, apologise for going a bit OTT before, but I do love my job and tend to defend it to the hilt! 🙂
Love
Crabapple xx
Re.e uniform, I understand and respect the point you make I was a victim of bullying throughout my school years, but I base all of my opinions regarding educating children on Alexander Sutherland Neils Summerhill school,
I truly hope you don't mind me pointing out something along the lines of, 'Oh, so it's a widely-based and researched opinion, then? 🙂
The transition from primary school to two different comprehensives was very good for me because of the uniforms. Frankly, some of the usufulness of uniforms broke down in my second school (after a move) as it was co-educational: but the first comprehensive was all-boys, and with the uniform didn't take away our identity at all, but gave us not one but two identities which led to extremely strong efforts to succeed, and especially in sports. We identified with the school through the uniform and were so very proud to be there. Secondly, every 'House' had a different tie, so for sports and other things within the school we were proud of our 'House' and tried to excell more than the others.
V
Hi beekyboop922
Your dissaproval towards the traditional English methods of education is obvious and it is your absolute right to have such a view. But to me your alternative is no better than what we already have in place here.
IMO not every child will flourish in a system adopted by the Alexander Sutherland Neils Summerhill School as not every child will flourish in our current traditional system. For me the difficulty is that there is no 'one' correct way to raise and educate a child because of the individuality of that child and the home environment he/she is growing up in, to mention just two variables.
I am not saying that our system is better than yours; I merely put the point across that your system IMO is no better than ours.
Rx
Hi Crabapple, it's ok I admire you defending your profession, bottom line schools are not like Summerhill, I can only admire you for the job you do it must be hard but it warms my heart to read of how much you care, there are too many teachers who not only don't care but who openly projects their issues onto children and clearly need somebody to lord it over and feel superior to but I know your not all like that.......I didn't take offence hun, I have been a member or WREN and IDEC for over ten years and I am used to opposition and a good ole' row lol. xxx
Hi Cirrus and Venitian, Yes I agree, Alexander Sutherland Niel himself admitted in his book that Summerhill is most certianly not for every child, for a start the parents have to be right behind the idea and for some children in Neils words "do not possess the grey matter to understand what is trying to be achieved at Summerhill" thank you for posting back I repect your views.
Peace and Love
Rebecca xxxx
I know I am going to be slated for this, but its my opinion. Its nothing to do with the teachers what so ever. How can you blame the teachers if the children do not even turn up for classes & when they do, they will create a scene to show off, so pupils who wants to learn cannot. I feel its down to socieity, as soon as discipline was outlawed that is when the problems started. I feel to turn this society around they have got to look @ the heart of the problem parents. Some parent do not give a monkeys what their children are doing as long as the have money for drugs/cigerettes/Alcohol. I feel the best way to cope with this increasing problem is to create a truancy team of people who will actually go to the school get a list of pupils who should be in school & then fining the parents if they do not have a valid reason on where their children are & why they are not at school. This money then can be put back into the education system.
Lets wind up the Communists
Thank Marx for our children's low marks
By Simon Heffer
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 17/11/2007
What sort of country has to provide 7.5 million training places to improve the skills of its workforce? One with Mickey Mouse schools, of course. I tried to detect some shame on the part of the Government yesterday when it announced this scheme. Half the places are to improve the most basic skills of all, numeracy and literacy. What a mess.
For decades, lies have been told about our education system and its products. First, we were told that comprehensive schools would raise standards for those dependent on state provision. That was complete nonsense. Even Labour now tacitly admits this, which is why it has failed to abolish grammar schools and maintains a drive for city academies, which are supposed to be better.
Then we are told each year, when youths register nearly 100 per cent pass rates for A-levels and GCSEs, that this is a sign of the growing genius of our young people and a tribute to the ever more brilliant teaching and curriculum. That, too, is rubbish. I am sure some who pass these exams well are indeed very bright, and good luck to them. But, as examiners now admit, a student can pass GCSE maths without being very numerate, and GCSE English while being not even semi-literate. Hence the need to try to educate people again once they imagine they have left school. Isn't it time the lies stopped, and the Government owned up to the severe failings of the education system?
This is where the Marxist drivel taught in teacher training colleges for the past 40 years or so has got us. The odd stand has been made against this poison - notably by Chris Woodhead when he was chief inspector of schools - but little impact has been made. In fact, just as the Government is having to create all these training places because its school system has failed, it continues to seek to do ever more damage.
A considerable minority of parents choose to avoid the horrors of the state system by paying for their children to be educated privately. These people attract the unrelenting hatred of Labour politicians - except, of course, of the few hypocrites who educate their own offspring in the private sector. The caricature is that such people are arrogant, wealthy toffs who use their money to buy privilege. As anyone with a child in a private school - and I have two - knows, that idea is absurd.
I know parents who forgo holidays, drive old bangers and remortgage their house several times so as to afford the fees. They do this not for reasons of snobbery, but because they regard the alternative as tantamount to child abuse. They take strain off the state system, ensure the country has some properly educated young people to help secure its future, and are rewarded with no tax relief for making up for the state's shortcomings.
Yet, as my colleague Charles Moore wrote last Saturday, the latest act of bullying by this Government is to threaten to remove charitable status from these schools. Were this to happen, tax advantages would be lost, fees would have to rise considerably, and private schooling would simply become too expensive for most families who can currently just afford it. What is disgraceful is that these schools offer countless scholarships to the children of poorer families, so their charity work is real rather than theoretical.
Labour cannot see educational excellence without wishing to destroy it. I rejoice that Buckinghamshire is promising to open a new grammar school, and hope other local authorities will follow suit - and that the Tory party will shut up on the subject. At a time when the failure of our schools is so manifest, central government cannot be trusted to put the problem right. Only by others taking the lead and doing so will the Government be shamed into retreat - and the day might yet dawn when people leave school able to read, write and count.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=YPQK0VOR0J5RBQFIQMGCFFOAVCBQUIV0?xml=/opinion/2007/11/17/do1703.xml