From poor lowly working class, 4 gce city boy.
I am shocked by some of the grammer, spelling and general poor standards on this posting. I really hope that it is 'trendy speak' and not how some people actually compose letters etc!
Before we criticise others it is well to remember an old saying from the bible (no I'm not a zealot) 'before you remove the speck of dust from my eye, remove the plank from your own'.
Yours affectionately,
Windy.
original windynights
I am shocked by some of the grammer, spelling and general poor standards on this posting.
Perhaps you would like to cut and past some examples and correct them for us
I am shocked by some of the grammer, spelling and general poor standards on this posting. I really hope that it is 'trendy speak' and not how some people actually compose letters etc!
Actually, it's grammAr.;)
Love
Sunanda xxx
I agree, education has gone downhill, where for me, is due to two factors: parental attitudes and the introduction of what i term as 'child's rights' coupled with OTT political correctness.
I had a culture shock a few years ago when i changed my children's primary schools, young children swearing and fighting. Where where the parents? watching them, thinking it a right hoot and egging them on!:confused: To me, teachers don't stand a chance disciplining children if this dosen't start at home. When i was at college last year, i was amazed to see teenagers squaring up to each other in class, or fighting, as my friend witnessed.
Regarding my own children, i have two who are academically interested, and one who has no interest whatsoever, where i echo the thought of 'you can lead a horse to water...' It dosen't worry me, as long as he gets the core GCSE's needed, such as Maths , English etc, at grade C, that's fine by me as he's more of a practical child. Probably sounds like that i've got a blase attitude to have, but for me, he can read, write and add up, all under duress- but he can do it.
Also, for me, it depends on how subjects are presented. If the teacher has a passion and enthusiam, then that tends to rub off onto the pupils. However, i do understand that this can be hard when faced with a class full of pupils who don't reciprocate that enthusiam.
Warmest wishes- calla lily x
Hi calla lily
You know it really shouldn't matter a jot if a child is not academically inclined; after all we're not all the same. Those of a practical nature are essential in today's society - look at how much we have to pay plumbers, electricians etc. But what is an awful shame is the demise of the old apprenticeships: NVQs just don't work, IMO. Basic practical training is needed for professions like plumbing, not just paperwork. No wonder the now famous Polish workforce is cleaning up in Britain - but our kids should be able to choose a vocational career if that's their thing. Skills are what we need, just as much as academic qualifications.
Love
Sunanda xxx
Skills are what we need, just as much as academic qualifications.
Love
Sunanda xxx
I echo that Sunada 🙂
Warmest wishes- calla lily x
Yes, my DH has a building company and has been taking on immigrant workforces as he cannot get joiners, plumbers etc that have been born and trained in the UK.
Most of the kids leaving school either go to college, Uni (no bad thing except they do subjects such as media, marketing, business studies) or look for jobs in the nearest call centre (of which there are many in my locality).
The only apprentices that my DH's joiners and plumbers get now tend to be the qualified tradesmens relatives (sons, nephews) who are, because of their older relative, in the know of the great skill shortage and that there is a lot of money to be made doing these jobs. A good plumbing business can bring in as much revenue as any doctor/consultant can.
Problem is, for some of today's children...these occupations are too much like hard work. They would rather sit at a phone trying to flog insurance packages.:(
Patchouli
I think criticising people on the forums for not spelling correctly etc is a bit mean. After all most of us here don't necessarily have the time to double check what we've written and often many posts are mis-spelt (mine possible being one of the worst), mis-typed as we're thinking and writing so quickly. These threads are also so informal that it's almost like speaking to someone however I guess most of us, if writing something at work or a letter or whatever, we'd double and triple check it.
Anyway back to the original content. When i was teaching I often felt so frustrated with:
- some of the Government initiatives (which most thought ridiculous) and we couldn't do anything about them excpet follow what had been ordered from above
- having to spend my own money buying equipment for pupils as nothing was forthcoming from school budgets
- having to deal with poor parents (not in the financial sense of being poor but those who didn't give a stuff about their children) - not turning up for parents evenings, making excuses for their kids' bad behaviour, actually denying that their kids had behaved badly saying things had bene "made up" - even though the teachers had more than enough work on without resorting to "making up" allegations of bad behaviour, not supporting teachers in giving detentions etc (even though these were rather pathetic "punishments" for the actual bad behaviour). One example was that even though we changed parents evening times to suit the parents we weren't getting the takeup. So we decided to hold parents evenings in local church halls nearer where the parents/pupils lived. What happened ?? Still no more parents turned up and actually many teachers' cars were vandalised. So much for our effort.
I was actually really glad when i left, however I'm still worried that many other countries don't appear to have the probs that we do. One issue that has been raised is that of "attitude" - again in many other countries respect hasn't been eroded to the extent it has here and younger people in many other places don't seem to be so lazy. I don't wnat to knock all kids here as that would be grossly unfair. many do work for charity, work hard etc but the trend downwards is worrying.
P.S As ateacher I was laways smartly dressed ( as were the other teachers), the children called me "Miss" and didn't even know my first name, they stood up at the start of the lesson behind their chairs, so most schools (and I taught in a few rough comps) are not lax and informal with the pupils. If such schools exist - perhaps they are few and far between. Also don't know of any teachers who dressed scruffily or in jeans (except when on fieldwork).
I have recently pulled my eldest daughter out of our local comprehensive school in favour of private home-schooling. She will work towards her GCSEs with a private tutor, student advisor, my personal support and her undisturbed commitment to her work.
It is a long story how we came to this decision but the very condensed version is:
My daughter has always been naturally academic and enjoyed mainstream schooling right up to secondary school; she had attended small rural schools before the 1000+ pupil secondary comprehensive in our town.
Her propensity is towards quiet studying and observation. She was unable to achieve this in the large comprehensive school and although she was stated as being in the top 10% of her school had no guidance to help her achieve her potential and became forgotten as so many quiet children do.
After a number of episodes of bullying and then appearing at home in tears I contacted the school and explained the situation to which four weeks later I am still waiting for a sensible response. I did however in that time receive a call from her Form Tutor who had no explanation or resolution to my childs very upsetting experiences. This teacher had obviously been given the job of placating me but unfortunately she had difficulty following my conversational thread. She found it very difficult to string a coherent sentence together. It was like talking to a teenager with attitude trying to talk nicely. Her pronunciation was dreadful. I found myself supporting her in the conversation.
Is this young lady, my daughters Form Tutor, the result of our comprehensive education system? Are we now reaping what we have sown a generation or so back?
In the case of our local comprehensive it is too large and has too many managers, how familiar does that sound? I am currently looking for a secondary comprehensive for my two younger children ready for when they are entering that phase of their education. I hope and pray by then we too will have a school close to us that has the same principles and objectives as Crabappless school. We are also considering moving to enable us to have such a choice.
British society IMO needs a good kick up the backside. We can put the same arguments we have against our education system to most sectors in our society.
As a complementary therapist we are taught to look at the cause of a problem and not just the symptoms. If we take the problem of education right back to its root cause where would we find ourselves? IMO I think the answer isnt too far from home!
Rx
Her propensity is towards quiet studying and observation. She was unable to achieve this in the large comprehensive school and although she was stated as being in the top 10% of her school had no guidance to help her achieve her potential and became forgotten as so many quiet children do.
After a number of episodes of bullying and then appearing at home in tears I contacted the school and explained the situation to which four weeks later I am still waiting for a sensible response. I did however in that time receive a call from her Form Tutor who had no explanation or resolution to my childs very upsetting experiences. This teacher had obviously been given the job of placating me but unfortunately she had difficulty following my conversational thread.
I'm really sorry you and your daughter have had a bad experience. The school' s attitude in indefensible. At least the schools I taught in (and as I've said before- they were quite rough) had a strong stance on bullying and a zero tolerance. That' not to say it didn't exist but when it did - it was dealt with quickly.
You're probably right with the Form tutor not being able to string a sentence together coherently. I don't know her age but she may have been born in the 1980s (if she's in her twenties) and gone to school during the eighties/nineties when the rot had already started setting in.
To be honest i'd never send a child of mine to any of the schools I taught in nor even to the "good" schools that are around here. It's a real problem - particularly if you can't afford/don't agree with private education. My partner has sent his children to be educated in India. I find in many comprehensives now - it's the mouthy, cocky kids who don't want to learn that rule the roost. If a child wishes to study or is quiet/shy/studious by nature - then they are trampled over by the others. 🙁
I echo the thought that it's not so much education that may have gone downhill per se, but that British culture has. So a lack of discipline in schools, childrens' lack of respect, the easy life they now get from wealthier families than existed in the past all make actual teaching more difficult. I dare say that the lack of exercise also rots the brain.
I'm not sure about all the hype about recent news stories, though. We just read that literacy is no better than during the 1950s. I don't know, but figured it was pretty good in schools then?
As for the Polish boy who went back, he felt he was "wasting his time" in what sounds like an average secondary school here, whereas he returned to a paid place in Poland that he was used to, which ranks as 50th best in Poland. So reports can be biassed, and journalists looking for a story. I've read, "Each pupil's education only costs £500 a year in his Polish school, about a tenth of the cost here." Is that meant to be any kind of point? I'd guess that all costs and services are that much heaper in Poland; that's why many come here, and doctors even work on UK production lines.
So there's something to this, but all is not as you read.
V [forgive any tipoes!!]
Oh my, what a can of worms we have unleashed!!
As far as apprenticeships are concerned, there are still many opportunities for these, nowadays they are called modern apprenticeships. (Who knows why?!) You will also find that many schools do cater for those more vocationally minded, by offering them day(s) release from school to complete courses in other establishments (local colleges/businesses) to learn the trades. In doing so they then have a 'carrot' to get their grades, as they still attend the core lessons in the days they do attend school. If they don't work or attend well on those days, they get pulled from the other courses. There is also those who benefit from one or two days a week working, in a chosen job that is then vetted by the school. My husband (oakapple) has taken on several (disaffected) pupils from my school in year 10 through to the end of their schooling to give them a trade in bricklaying. It generally works well, with hubby even driving them in to school to take their final exams.
No two kids are the same, and therefore need their education taylor made to their own requirements...obviously this is not possible, but we can help by giving non academically minded pupils the opportunities to build on their own strengths.
I think one of the main problems is that many of the kids (and parents) of today are far too aware of their rights and they have too many of them!! I remember one instance, where pupils were carrying out a practical science lesson (using acid) and one girl started running around the room. I put my arm out to impede her rapid progress, and my watch caught in her hair!! I was hauled in front of the headmaster, with her and her irate parents present, to explain myself!! Nothing came of it, but I think it does illustrate the point.
Anyway, there is no one solution to this, but I do feel that educating the parents to instill boundaries on their kids may be a starting point.
Crabapple xx
By the way Happygirl, my daughter is 24 and went through that period of schooling when everything changed and as you put it 'the rot was setting in' and she is well able to string many sentences together, training to be a teacher at the moment at the same school as myself!;)
Perhaps you would like to cut and past some examples and correct them for us
Sorry old thing, I am not that good at computers. I struggle with things more difficult than e-mails and cutting and pasting scares me to death. However, I dont mind admitting that others are brighter than me in this modern world.
Yours Windy..
Actually, it's grammAr.;)
Love
Sunanda xxx
Well spotted Sunanda. It shows you are 'on the ball'. I don't profess to be that bright, but it seems a little harsh picking on teachers. It must be a nightmare teaching these days. Hell, it must have been bad in my schooldays and we were tame scousers!
Luv windy.
As far as apprenticeships are concerned, there are still many opportunities for these, nowadays they are called modern apprenticeships. (Who knows why?!) You will also find that many schools do cater for those more vocationally minded, by offering them day(s) release from school to complete courses in other establishments (local colleges/businesses) to learn the trades.
By the way Happygirl, my daughter is 24 and went through that period of schooling when everything changed and as you put it 'the rot was setting in' and she is well able to string many sentences together, training to be a teacher at the moment at the same school as myself!;)
Hi Crabapple,
When i was teaching we had these apprenticeships, however they were mainly seen for the kids (and things may have changed since I left) for those who couldn't do anything else. Those children who did do them, did so to "fill in the time" and weren't interested at all. They (the apprenticeships)didn't seem to have the "gravitas" of older apprenticeships and I know from family members who did do apprenticeships many years ago, they took years (between 4 and 6 years)and were difficult.
Also wasn't insinuating that your daughter was inarticulate. Indeed my Godmother has 2 daughters who, apart from doing brilliantly academically by getting into Cambridge and the Sorbonne in Paris(no - they weren't "pushed" either) perhaps more importantly are highly articulate, nice, down to earth, have many outside interests (like music, amateur dramatics, dance) and do a lot for charity - particularly sitting with elderly people in old folks' homes. However I do find many younger people "conversationally challenged". 🙁