Bonfire night horror

It is sad and disgusting I think that our youth have no idea of the consequences of their actions....

s**t happens on planet earth I guess

It is sad and disgusting I think that our youth have no idea of the consequences of their actions....

Thats the thing...it was 1 boy, I wonder how much others in the same generation will get branded under 'todays youth' ect...the problem doesn't start with the kids, its what we must 'miss' in their up bringing to make this sort of news even possible....childhood murder appears to be on the increase judging by what hits the headlines, although not an everyday occurance but very sad all the same

xxx

its what we must 'miss' in their up bringing to make this sort of news even possible....childhood murder appears to be on the increase judging by what hits the headlines, although not an everyday occurance but very sad all the same

Amy, I agree that this and the general malaise affecting 'lads' nowadays is dreadful and a real cause for concern. I seem to recall writing about it before on HP - talking about 'hoodies' and suchlike. I don't think there's any one factor that we can pinpoint as a cause for this, instead I believe it's all part and parcel of what's going wrong in the world and can even be traced back to TV and video violence (even cartoons), kids being exposed to all sorts of malevolent influences, peer pressure and the general ambience of mayhem and violence that afflicts the world. Having said that, I also have to say that it was ever thus: in 18th century London, gangs of youths roamed the streets inflicting violence on innocent citizens. It seems to be the way we're programmed (hormones etc). But I think nowadays diet too plays a big part, plus the fact that girls grow up so much more quickly than boys. (That too has been discussed here before.)

Depressingly, I don't see any answers forthcoming - except that the grassroots projects which work with kids on the ground as it were seem to be most encouraging.

With love (and hope)
Sunanda xxx

Thats the thing...it was 1 boy,

It was 3 boys two older ones were released on bail

I wonder how much others in the same generation will get branded under 'todays youth' ect...the problem doesn't start with the kids, its what we must 'miss' in their up bringing to make this sort of news even possible....

I kinda agree in part I think that we have given away so much control with human rights acts etc... when I was at school there was a respectful fear of teachers/authority figures which is not there now.

I have 2 x Teenage Boys and I have brought them both up to respect their parents and figures of authority and still the youngest one has this "Gangsta" attutude abut not being "dissed" which funnily enough dissappears if I am present because he know that I will not tolerate disrespect towards others from him. I have done all their disciplining without resorting to physical means, which is something I am proud of, but I listen to their friends talk and they have no idea that their idiotic actions could lead a something as serious as a killing. I notice that when matters have gotten out of hand its a gang doing the damage and not an individual, probably because they think there is comfort in numbers. Well there is no comfort in the numbers 15 to life!!

I think that there is a growing "under class" of individuals (parents and youths alike) who have no respect for themselves and display this by petty vandalism, the use of physical intimidation and general disrespect for other people.

Depressingly, I don't see any answers forthcoming - except that the grassroots projects which work with kids on the ground as it were seem to be most encouraging.

Well a return to having corporal punishment in schools would be a good starter!! and how about National Service as well..

Look at countries that have both of these in place do they have the same level of problems with hoodies/gang culture.... I think not!!

I expect that the bleeding heart liberals will now want to castigate me but I say OK we have tried lots of other methods.... (Lets try this and if it does not work then it can be scrapped as well... Hug a Hoodie!! (My A*se!!)

Well a return to having corporal punishment in schools would be a good starter!! and how about National Service as well..

We've had this discussion before - and it looks like we'll be having it again. In my bleeding heart liberal opinion inflicting pain on someone in order to persuade them not to inflict pain on someone else is just plain wrong. Sorry Jason but regardless of whether it worked in the past it just wouldn't work now IMHO. And I don't think it's the answer.

Sunanda x

Like many here - I don't have the answer and was as shocked as anyone reading and hearing about this. After all - it wasn't so long ago that poor Rhys Jones was shot and I believe his killer still hasn't been caught (unless I've missed something).

I find the main differences with some kids now (not all of course) and when I grew up is a lack of resepct for themselves and a lack of respect for others. I think this may be partly down to:

- the availability of drugs - weren't generally around when i was growing up

- violence in the media and a general "uncouthness" in the media/society in general which wasn't around so much before

- the lack of any care/concern by many parents now. Some just can't be bothered. When I was teaching I heard parents say "I haven't got time to help him/her with homework I'm too busy etc etc" "I can't get him/her off the playstation" "It's just easier to let them watch TV". Excuse me - who are the decision makers in the household - it seems the kids are ? Also if you decide to have kids - then they are a priority. If someone doesn't want to curtail their life then they shouldn't have children - children are not "add on extras" only to be noticed when it's suitable for the parents to do so. Some people complain about being tired after work and being unable to look after the kids - well that's the nature of the beast when you have children - you are, by definition, extremely busy. At the end of the day I tend to agree with the late Jackie Kennedy (Onassis) who said:

" if you bungle raising your kids nothing much else matters in life ".

Enough said.

I think it has a lot to do with the current fashion (oh I'm getting old) fashion to kids really has always been an attitude, not just about cloths..the way that an image is marketed to kids is wrong IMVHO & I think perhaps the way the media portray things should be looked at, I'm not saying silence the media but at least get them not to focus so much hype on the negative side of kids!! Where I live in the evenings theres sometimes 12 year olds hanging outside somerfields with their hoodies on, coughing on a B&H and doing the 'intimidating stare' to people trying to get past them...although these kids arn't out for trouble but I do feel they're portraying an image/attitude that they're practiacally told to...just MHO;)

Oh and as for school disapline, I think something should be done...no not bring back the cane, but one thing that has become apparent to me having a son in year 8 (2nd year of secondry school) is that the 'bad' kids, the ones that are harder to handle, usually with adhd or something, get let off with bad behaviour. My 12 year old son was invited to go & smoke a spliff by his classmate the other month, when my son told me this I phoned up the school to air my concern...the action taken was to have a word with the boy who invited my son for a smoke of the green stuff & also tell him exactly who had phoned the school, needless to say my son got some flack but it got sent right back to the teacher 10 fold from me:mad:...what I'm saying, good kids don't seem to get ecouraged to be good, naughty kids get given excuses rather then given the time to try & get to their root problems..not to mention media bombardment.................oh heck..didn't mean to rant:o

xxxx

Oh and as for school disapline, I think something should be done...

Believe me there are many many teachers and schools who would love to have a bit more discipline - trouble is the children (and parents) have the law wholly on thier side. Headteachers' decisions to exclude pupils have been overturned, black marks against schools who exclude too many, bad kids sent from one school to another (like pass the parcel so the problmem is never solved), parents sending the Police to see teachers/schoolswho have told thier kids off, physical and verbal threats from parents- the list goes on and on. Why do you think i left ???

Why do you think i left ???

It must be one heck of a challanging job teaching secondary school kids, perhaps the teacher training should also include more child psycology (oooo I need to go back to school & learn how to spell:p) on child counselling to help cure the problem rather then bury it.....although admittedly I don't know what training teachers already get and yes I supose the do have a tough job as it is, maybe a whole new department is needed in schools

xxx

perhaps the teacher training should also include more child psycology (oooo I need to go back to school & learn how to spell:p) on child counselling to help cure the problem rather then bury it.....

I think that the problem is that there is a lack of support from parents, the Government, local authorities etc. You're right - teaching is challenging enough and many teachers don't have the time to follow up minor misdemeanours, so often it's only major misdemeanours get taken forward and even then the parents scream blue murder saying that the school/teachers have made it all up. I personally think many parents have abdicated their responsibilty saying it's the school's problem. The primary responsibilty for a child lies with the parent - many primary schools now get kids who can't talk, read, go to the toilet, eat sitting at a table - and there's no physical/mental reason why they can't. What the hell have the parents been doing in the first 5 years of that child's life ?

I personally don't see why teachers have to do child psycholgy/counselling or whatever simply to cope with badly behaved parents and their offspring. I realise that if you haven't been at the chalkface it's difficult to undertsand but it's a nightmare, thankless job - so I left (for health reasons) and got an office job. Many schools and teachers are now like childminders with after school activities, breakfast clubs etc. Next parents will want teachers to come home cook the dinner and put the kids to bed. Unless parents take resonsibilty for their children - teachers, the police etc are all up against it.

I personally think many parents have abdicated their responsibilty saying it's the school's problem

Granted, & I take your piont, there does seem to be a fair number of parents that are more 'relaxed':rolleyes: in their parental duty...but what about the piont I made about the media, do you not think that also the medias negative focas should take some of the responsibilty? Have you seen those new hoodies too that are on the market, that zip right over the face...they're taking the P to rake in the £££££££'s:(

xxx

I find the main differences with some kids now (not all of course) and when I grew up is a lack of resepct for themselves and a lack of respect for others. I think this may be partly down to:

- the availability of drugs - weren't generally around when i was growing up

- violence in the media and a general "uncouthness" in the media/society in general which wasn't around so much before

HI there,

Yes - the first 2 points on my original posting mentions firstly drugs and secondly the media and society in general. I do think there's too much violence and lack of regard for other people shown in the media. I was in a lift the other day at work and there were some guys in there talking and quite happily using the "F" word. I'm not a prude but i really hate this kind of language and if these men wanted to use it amongst themselves then fine -but they shouldnt subject others to their foul language. This is just a lack of concerns for others and a self centred attitude which seems quite prevalent today.

I'm not a prude but i really hate this kind of language and if these men wanted to use it amongst themselves then fine -but they shouldnt subject others to their foul language.

I agree with you on this, HG. The same thing has happened to me countless times. But did you say anything to them? I know I haven't in the past but I think perhaps we should, maybe something unthreatening like 'Gentlemen, language please'. At least it might make them think about it.

Love
Sunanda xxx