Saw that the other day on the BBC website. Stupid restrictions. What if a woman doesn't want to show off her body... she's dressed illegally... how ridiculous.
You might guess that I'm all for people wearing whatever they want to.
It seems particularly stupid, however, since we are all advised to cover ourselves more now that we are more aware of skin cancer. My sister, her husband and her children all wear very similar garments on the beach.
It's worse than I thought e.g. I didn't know this....
That is the equivalent of banning Muslim women from their schools. I think I may be starting to understand why France has been so attacked now!
It's worse than I thought e.g. I didn't know this....
That is the equivalent of banning Muslim women from their schools. I think I may be starting to understand why France has been so attacked now!
Not quite, it's bans anybody from wearing any sort of visible symbolism that is considered to show a religious affiliation.
I haven't seen Christians carrying out attacks because they can't wear crosses in schools.
Not quite, it's bans anybody from wearing any sort of visible symbolism that is considered to show a religious affiliation.
I haven't seen Christians carrying out attacks because they can't wear crosses in schools.
Well a visible symbolism would be a jihab wouldn't it?
Not quite, it's bans anybody from wearing any sort of visible symbolism that is considered to show a religious affiliation.
I haven't seen Christians carrying out attacks because they can't wear crosses in schools.
There's no evidence that Muslims are carrying out attacks because they can't wear hijab. But Amy is right, in France any clothing that marks one out as a Muslim - as the hijab does - is frowned on.
The bans of 'burkinis' on beaches is particular towns. The country-wide bans of signs of religious affiliation have mainly been in schools and, I seem to remember, in a hospital - and there have been court cases from people who wish to wear an ostentatious cross or crucifix to work in these places.
I wonder how Sikh men cope. Like Muslim women the law essentially bans a devout person from working in a school. A cross or a crucifix does not have to be on show, but a hijab or a turban does.
There's no evidence that Muslims are carrying out attacks because they can't wear hijab. But Amy is right, in France any clothing that marks one out as a Muslim - as the hijab does - is frowned on.
The bans of 'burkinis' on beaches is particular towns. The country-wide bans of signs of religious affiliation have mainly been in schools and, I seem to remember, in a hospital - and there have been court cases from people who wish to wear an ostentatious cross or crucifix to work in these places.
I wonder how Sikh men cope. Like Muslim women the law essentially bans a devout person from working in a school. A cross or a crucifix does not have to be on show, but a hijab or a turban does.
Of course it wouldn't be conventional Muslims that carry out attacks - it is the extremist terrorist offshoot of this (that Muslims themselves wish to dissasociate themselves from). The French laws would just inflame them and add further motive to their barbaric cause.
Of course it wouldn't be conventional Muslims that carry out attacks - it is the extremist terrorist offshoot of this (that Muslims themselves wish to dissasociate themselves from). The French laws would just inflame them and add further motive to their barbaric cause.
If, indeed, they need further motive.
If, indeed, they need further motive.
Well, I meant more justification...feeling more 'righteous' in what they do. 
I have a better understanding now of the reasons for this French law (although I still find it outrageous), i.e. the last 3 paragraphs in this link explain why....
Ha...meanwhile, here in UK!....
This type of behaviour isn't going to make anything better -
Sorry, Amy - just realised that's the same link as you posted.
This type of behaviour isn't going to make anything better -
What do you make of the final 3 paragraphs re. the explanation. It would seem that they are trying to avoid/curtail public unrest. That people cannot 'live and let live', i.e. tolerate those of different religious persuasions is abhorrent. The french have long been associated with being racists though....
I have a better understanding now of the reasons for this French law (although I still find it outrageous), i.e. the last 3 paragraphs in this link explain why....
Ha...meanwhile, here in UK!....
I wonder what will happen when one of these muslim woman sues the French state for giving them skin cancer by forcing them to expose their skin in the sunshine? Let's face it, if they're just there enjoying the weather with their family and not going around preaching or being overtly offensive to anyone, then they're not doing anything wrong.
What do you make of the final 3 paragraphs re. the explanation. It would seem that they are trying to avoid/curtail public unrest. That people cannot 'live and let live', i.e. tolerate those of different religious persuasions is abhorrent. The french have long been associated with being racists though....
I think that's a subjective view of a minority in power, and not necessarily a general consensus of the public. If you look at those photo's were any of the non-muslim people on that beach taking offence at the woman who was wearing it? They all looked like they were just there enjoying the weather and resting... yet the police came along and caused the disturbance and, if anything, are themselves the cause of heightened tensions.
I think that's a subjective view of a minority in power, and not necessarily a general consensus of the public. If you look at those photo's were any of the non-muslim people on that beach taking offence at the woman who was wearing it? They all looked like they were just there enjoying the weather and resting... yet the police came along and caused the disturbance and, if anything, are themselves the cause of heightened tensions.
Well then you missed this bit...
A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”
And the paragraph that reads ...
The photographs emerged as a mother of two also told on Tuesday how she had been fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.
Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.
Leggings, a tunic and a headscarf are not religious wear.
There is anger against terrorism that is spilling over to ordinary Muslims in a way it simply doesn't do if the terrorists are of any other religion. This is state racism.
From the woman who invented the burkini :
This issue was aired in Channel 4 news. Amongst the many good points raised was what about nuns? Would they be made to remove their habit in the name of upholding France's secularist law? 
The muslim woman used the word Islamophobia....she has a point!
Well then you missed this bit...
A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”
No I didn't miss it, but it sounded too much like journalistic licence, as the photos seemed to show most people just relaxing and observing... there wasn't any visual indication of people doing that. Don't trust everything you read.
No I didn't miss it, but it sounded too much like journalistic licence, as the photos seemed to show most people just relaxing and observing... there wasn't any visual indication of people doing that. Don't trust everything you read.
"Just relaxing and observing"....really? Not in this photo below (that I had also posted on page 1, # 11).
Of course we don't know whether their frowns are disapprovals of the police or the poor Muslim woman though. However, since the government saw a need for such a secularist law.... the frowns are more likely to be disapproval of her.
Don't trust everything you read.
I'd agree with that. But I've heard similar from several sources - including the phrase, 'You're not welcome here. France is a Catholic country.' Not much awareness of their own secularism there.
The more the state allows racism (even by implication), the more people will take advantage of it - as we saw here after the EU referendum. It may only be a minority, but minorities can grow.
This, in The Guardian, today:
"Just relaxing and observing"....really? Not in this photo below (that I had also posted on page 1, # 11).
Of course we don't know whether their frowns are disapprovals of the police or the poor Muslim woman though. However, since the government saw a need for such a secularist law.... the frowns are more likely to be disapproval of her.
Those "frowns" are just people who are facing the sun, looking to see what's going on (if you've ever sat on the beaches on the south coast of France you'd know how intense the sun is - and yes I have many times). There no indication of anybody being aggressive or offensive towards the woman in the burkini, who herself is, in the first picture, lying down and relaxing.... which you wouldn't be doing if people were taking offence at you being there, until of course the police came along and turned it into an issue.
Those "frowns" are just people who are facing the sun, looking to see what's going on (if you've ever sat on the beaches on the south coast of France you'd know how intense the sun is - and yes I have many times). There no indication of anybody being aggressive or offensive towards the woman in the burkini, who herself is, in the first picture, lying down and relaxing.... which you wouldn't be doing if people were taking offence at you being there, until of course the police came along and turned it into an issue.
Possibly but people can harbour unvoiced feelings until they have 'backup'!
ALSO the article mentioned a witness that was named as having heard this....
A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”
Whilst I realise papers fabricate and embellish the truth, naming a witness that heard 'go home' makes it more likely to be authentic don't you think (since they could be traced and deny it if not true). Which also gives more credence to the frowns being about disapproval!!!
I realise this may still not be enough to sway your opinion - ultimately we believe what we want to.
Possibly but people can harbour unvoiced feelings until they have 'backup'!
ALSO the article mentioned a witness that was named as having heard this....
A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”
Notice though that this witness said "the saddest thing", so that witness themselves found it wrong what was happening, and she indicated that it was "some", so even if some people were being racist, it clearly wasn't the general position of most people there, and there's certainly nothing in the images to show people being offensive towards her... 'til the police arrive that is.
Notice though that this witness said "the saddest thing", so that witness themselves found it wrong what was happening, and she indicated that it was "some", so even if some people were being racist, it clearly wasn't the general position of most people there, and there's certainly nothing in the images to show people being offensive towards her... 'til the police arrive that is.
I feel you are splitting hairs now....that EVEN some were shouting 'go home' on a public beach (an area associated with pleasure/recreation) is atrocious!!! How is saying 'go home' NOT (at the very least) sad? 'Sad' is a diminished, understated description for such a situation.
Actually I heard a fairly convincing counter argument to this situation. On the radio, a woman said she was told to cover up her bare arms in Dubai - they have a dress code too! It offends their religion so is this inverted secularism?
This issue was aired in Channel 4 news. Amongst the many good points raised was what about nuns? Would they be made to remove their habit in the name of upholding France's secularist law?
The muslim woman used the word Islamophobia....she has a point!
Gosh yes, that's a good point I hadn't thought of. I find this whole thing a total knee-jerk reaction. It's not going to make anyone safer and it's just going to alienate those who perhaps were sympathetic towards the majority in France.
I was down in Hastings last week and on the beach was a Muslim family, with the women all covered from head to toe. Apart from feeling sorry for them wearing so many layers in that heat, it all looked totally normal to me (and obviously everyone else on the beach). They were just a family relaxing and having fun on a beach - why shouldn't they be allowed to dress as they wish and feel most comfortable?
I don't like those black face veils though - they are creepy and you can't see if it's a man or woman, so to me, they could be security issue.