I love this board....hardly an issue that has not been discussed and plenty of great contributions. A number of recent threads have eventually lead to the subject of - for lack of a more defining word - "modesty" and issues associated therewith. I'll do my part as a member and toss in my 2 pence worth.
Being over 40, I'm probably a bit older that most members. While I have not made it an entire career, I did start LONG ago when the art, science and business was not as sophisticated as now. I have been a messeur in the U.S. and Europe and a massage CLIENT all over the world. I love exploring and experiencing the variety of techniques, customs and practices. I don't have all the answers, and the ones I do might not be the correct ones.....another reason to love this board.
When I read many of the postings about the "subjects" (along the lines I used as the subject for this thread), I get the sense that some practitioners- particularly some new to the trade - are missing the true point.
Massage is mostly about making THE CLIENT feel good.
Now that statement - in itself - could set off a firestorm....but don't let it. Keep perspective here.
First, in the geographic area where I practice (Lady of Leisure in SW London) there are tons of erotic massage parlors, unveiled and obvious. My personal opinion is that they have their place and if that is what a client wants....I'm greatful that they have a place to go and get it.
That now aside, the question of "coverage" (towels, sheets, etc) is pretty clear. As long as the CLIENT and the THERAPIST are both comfortable (mentally, emotionally, etc) that is the ONLY thing that matters. If the therapist is nervous because a hint of genitalia is peaking out from under the edge of the cover, the therapist will be distracted (at least) and the performance will be less than optimal. If the client is concerned that a little bit of something might be "showing" and is nervous, the relaxing goes out the window. Same for hands getting "too close" to private bits for some clients. The real skill is for the therapist to (1) know their own limits and (2) quickly and professionally determine the client's comfort limits. Use the one that is the more restrictive.
It's pretty clear that most people get their comfort level from the culture, social upbringing and experience. If you have been to a lot of countries, you know this. Entire families (young children too) of Germans going naked on a public beach in Florida is a classic example of my point.
After all I have been through, I personally don't have any limits anymore, as either the messeur or as the client. Everything I have has already been seen and been touched.....no big deal.....TO ME. This said, I am sensitive to the comfort of my messeus....the cover towel or sheet, in my case, is actually FOR HER COMFORT. I communicate this to the messeus right up front, I find that they appreciate getting that question out of the way.
In my massage business, I have a routine that I have found works very effectively. At those appropriate points in the massage, I explain to the women (I only do females) that I am now going to work her groin tendon (or pectoralis muscles, etc) and want to find the limit of her comfort level. I do this by placing her hand on my hand, and asking her to move it to the point of her comfort and they will do so or verbally explain their preference. I then set the edge of the cover at that line as my guide. It's professional and semi-clinical, and many client's have expressed their appreciation for this approach. By-the-way, I learned this technique in a massage swap session from another practitioner MANY years ago....credit where credit is due.
Some readers will ask, "What if she places your hand on her genitals?". The answer is basically, "nothing special"and that HAS happenedmore often than one might expect. I now know that her "comfort limit" e
RE: Towel, Sheet, Naked, Erections "MODESTY"...et al
I agree with many points here. i am not british and often feel the masseur will stop to low down the leg, avoiding thights, and also that I don't need all this ritual of being half covered by towels...I would prefer the Ayurvedic approach: all naked but for knickers maybe, lying as such, and all the body being massaged, including breasts. This way as well you can start from feet straight up to the neck, not "dividing" the body in parts to massage one at a time.
Saying that, Ayurvedic masseurs are the same sex as their clients, and I think this is a good idea if we are considering integral, complete unambiguous massage.
by the way, why not males? did you get bad experience? do they tend to come for other reasons?
RE: Towel, Sheet, Naked, Erections "MODESTY"...et al
Hello Fadette........I finally established a "ladies only" practice after initially accepting both (when previouslyoperating in Washington DC). I tried many subtle then not-so-subtle indicators in my advertising and marketing that I did not offer an erotic massage, but nothing seemed effective enough. I even went as far as having a few hot links on my websiteat the timethat went to massage services specifically catering to gay men. After all that, I still don't fully understand why gay men would then book with me and still try for the "happy ending". Maybe it was the "challenge". I finally just gave it up and have been much happier ever since...........Mike
RE: Towel, Sheet, Naked, Erections "MODESTY"...et al
At the risk of reviving a disagreement from earlier threads, I am surprised that Fadette has repeated her comment that
“Ayurvedic masseurs are the same sex as their clients, and I think this is a good idea if we are considering integral, complete unambiguous massage “
It may be true that most women would be prefer to be massaged by someone of the same sex, but I think that most heterosexual men would definitely prefer to be massaged by a therapist of the opposite sex. We discussed this on the earlier thread ‘sexual discrimination in massage therapy’, where Fozzyo began the thread by commenting
“quote:
"Many men won't consider a male therapist due to apparent homophobia ..."
--Jeff Shevell, New Jersey massage therapist “
Incidentally I would agree with Mike that homosexual clients who want something more than just massage are the biggest problem facing male therapists. But I would have thought that it was rather unusual for a male therapist to refuse to treat male clients? My impression, both from ‘real life’ and from this forum, is that most male therapists treat clients of both sexes.
Alan
RE: Towel, Sheet, Naked, Erections "MODESTY"...et al
Alan D....I have found that Masseurs that chose to practice exclusively on women arenot uncommon globally. Those I have spoken with have cited reasons similar to mine. Having finally elected a solution that makes life easier for me, I am constantly reminded of one of the many benefits of having an independent massage practice....choice.........Mike
RE: Towel, Sheet, Naked, Erections "MODESTY"...et al
I know several male therapists who are female only, and I know some who are male only. Each has developed their own niche market.
Personally I have an approximately equal split of male and female clients. I have had a few ask for extra's, doesn't particularly bother me that is what they want. I'm more that they have come for a clearly non-sexual massage rather then looking for a rentboy. They all get a very clear final warning, if they persist in anyway the session ends and they are blacklisted - no exceptions.
Mike, interesting what you talk about with regards to draping. I have a few clients who are nudists so I don't bother draping them at all, others have specific requests for their draping. And this is all part of the treatment contract. At the start of each treatment I agree what the treatment will include, what outcome they wish to get from it, and how I will do it. Straight away this sets the boundaries of the massage, and the draping.
To be honest, I don't think that massage colleges / training centres cover draping very well. I have learnt from one training centre some excellent techniques that have made such a difference. With good draping it is very easy to massage all the way up the leg to the glutes.
And your technique sounds an excellent way of setting boundaries.
Mat xxx