Lomi Lomi and training

Every year I toy with doing some Lomi Lomi training with this school in Hawaii or some other US states where they teach. A friend did some training with them in Hawaii. They have DVD's for sale.

I did some Hawaiian Massage training at City Lit a few years ago. Not sure if it is still taught there.

I’m not sure whether Maychang is aware that there is quite a bit of dispute as to the merits of ‘temple style’ Lomi (which is the style most commonly taught in the UK). If you look back at the previous lomi threads on this forum, you will find the following (somewhat controversial) comment from a Hawaiian contruibutor:

As I have been reading all the input given on lomilomi, I cannot help but get frustrated with all the explanations shared. Being born and raised in Hawaii, and having been taught lomilomi since the age of 7, I wish to correct the misconceptions about true authentic lomilomi.
What is being done in many parts of Europe, Germany, and Australia is not true authentic lomi. "Temple Style", and Lomilomi Nui have been taught as popular techniques. This is "NOT" lomilomi.
Lomilomi is not a technique such as Swedish, or shiatsu etc... It is a lifestyle that is done each and everyday. Lomilomi's literal translation is massage, but it is not the long flowing strokes, or the massaging of people using just a towel cover. The physical massage is the least important aspect of lomi. There is "NO" protocol or set technique. What everyone has seen or experienced with the long flowing, connective strokes is merely an exaggerated Swedish massage. The style that most of you are familiar with, is in actuality, offensive to native Hawaiian people.

Similarly, the book ‘Hawaiian Lomilomi’ by Nancy Kahalewai strongly criticises the ‘Temple Style’ of massage taught by a native Hawaiian called Abraham Kawaii. Most of the Brits (including myself) who have contributed to the Lomi threads on HP seem to have been taught by either Rosalie Samet or Lizy Newton, both of whom teach Kawaii’s ‘Temple Style’. Rosalie Samet was trained in Hawaii by Abraham Kawaii, and Lizy Newton was trained by Susan Painiu Floyd who was herself trained by Abraham Kawaii. However, Kahalewai states

Outside of the Hawaiian Islands, temple bodywork is the most common type of “Hawaiian massage” being done in the world. Its founder is the late Abraham Kawai’i DeCambra, who lived on Kaua’a until he passed away in June of 2004. Although it is not traditional, it is accurate to say it is Hawaiian because a kanaka maoli man who was born and raised in Hawaii developed it ... Abraham, who used the name Kahu Aua’ia Maka I’ole during the performance of sacred cultural rituals, never named any of his own teachers. Ho’okahi, his surviving partner, who agrees that sexual overtones are inappropriate, told me that back in 1989 and 1990 when Abraham started teaching and travelling extensively, it was his students who gave his work the name ‘temple’ to differentiate it from more ‘common’ and traditional Hawaiian lomilomi techniques ...’

Regards

Alan

thanks for that alan, it is very interesting, I really appreciate it.

I was trained by Rosalie originally and then did another course at a local FE college which was quite frankly shocking as it was swedish massage with forearms. the tutor had trained in another country.

hence me wishing to learn more as I feel that their is a lot more to lomi lomi than what has been taught to me so far.

I have watched a lot of u tube clips and again, it does tend to depict long body strokes with forearms.

I did actually sign up to the ebook by Nancy and she has some dvd's coming out soon.

I feel comfortable with the new trainer that I have arranged for march. I've had a long talk with her about my previous training and what she entails doing.

Just need a couple more people to sign up for it to secure the booking.

the link that Essence provided is a lot of the clips that I have watched on u tube.

and I have seen this also:

so are these classed as temple style?

Thanks for the link: yes the Australian therapist shown looks to be very similar in style to the Temple style as taught by Lizy Newton and Rosalie Samet. Personally I like Temple style: but it is clear that some native Hawaiians don't !

Regards

Alan

to be frank, I've watched a lot of u tube clips, I've done a lot of reading and research on this and is there really this upset in Hawaii?

it already states that their is no set routine........so whats to get upset about? Seems to be a lot of Hawiiaan people offering DVD's and training in it.

I totally understand the problems with sexual connitations...I advertised the training course and added a line at the bottom stating that treatments would be available soon and placed it on the free site either gum or viva.....anyhow, I had about 20 phone calls from men in one week, asking when was I going to be offering the treatment.

this hasn't put me off, as when I eventually decide to offer this as a treatment, it will be for females only. I will open it up to male clients if and when I feel ready, but to be frank, the male clients that I have on a regular basis for massage would be horrified by this.

the link that Essence provided is a lot of the clips that I have watched on u tube.
and I have seen this also:

so are these classed as temple style?

As RP said, yes, that's temple style. The woman in that clip did her initial training with (nice little video on the About pages) Temple style gets called Ka Huna massage in Australia. They also do training in another style called Heartworks Lomi Lomi which is no forearms, all hands (pretty much what gets used in most stone massage routines that say they are lomi lomi based).

Auntie Margaret Lomi Lomi is MUCH more well covered, and none of the temple style flying and elbows, BUT, as with lots of Native American traditions, lots of Hawaiian traditions went underground for many years as they were not allowed to be done openly so the 'natives' could be converted to Christianity more easily. The Auntie Margaret style of Lomi Lomi was allowed in a Christian environment and flourished. More of the old styles have emerged over the last couple of decades (Hawaiian and Native American on the mainland) and lots of happily converted people would prefer they hadn't emerged.

As RP said, yes, that's temple style. The woman in that clip did her initial training with (nice little video on the About pages) Temple style gets called Ka Huna massage in Australia. They also do training in another style called Heartworks Lomi Lomi which is no forearms, all hands (pretty much what gets used in most stone massage routines that say they are lomi lomi based).

Auntie Margaret Lomi Lomi is MUCH more well covered, and none of the temple style flying and elbows, BUT, as with lots of Native American traditions, lots of Hawaiian traditions went underground for many years as they were not allowed to be done openly so the 'natives' could be converted to Christianity more easily. The Auntie Margaret style of Lomi Lomi was allowed in a Christian environment and flourished. More of the old styles have emerged over the last couple of decades (Hawaiian and Native American on the mainland) and lots of happily converted people would prefer they hadn't emerged.

thanks for that Cola, that is really interesting. so, what is Auntie Margaret lomi lomi compared to Temple style?

As RP said, yes, that's temple style. The woman in that clip did her initial training with <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.highspiritsretreat.com.au/ "> http://www.highspiritsretreat.com.au/

As a non-contributor to this thread how get involved, lmao!:rollaugh:

Am I that notorious?!

As a non-contributor to this thread how get involved, lmao!:rollaugh:

Am I that notorious?!

you know you love it really!:)

Do i really love it, probably! When I read cola's post it did put a smile on my face

Since I'm contributing now, I might as well say something. Better say first that I am not a Lomi Lomi practitioner, but do have a friend that is and has explained aspects of it, including the esoteric.

As for authentic nature of any therapy, this can always be questioned, and there is plenty of people in both the west and the east (or south and north) it will change, blend, package and thief from other systems. Even Swedish massage can find its origins in Chinese Anmo massage. Neuromuscular techniques were thief'ed from Ayurvedic massage, Hopi ear candles doesn't seem now to come from the Hopi tribal people, and if the pixie practiced Thai massage the way it's often done in Thailand I would lose most of my clients.

What is more important is the intention to heal, and sometimes that means having an understanding of the original intention of the therapy and underlining culture, but this is 2011 UK and sometimes therapies have to relate to the times (not saying necessary suggesting that this is right). You stick a therapy/lifestyle style system on to the open market, you will get changes and things been watered down. Look at Hatha Yoga - it's become in many respects a system of Indian gymnastics!!!

Make what you like out of this, I won't be debating it.

Best wishes

RP

very well put Dave x

Its like IHM, when narendra mehta first devised it - it was a cobbled together version of what he had experienced. if you went over to India and asked for IHM they probably wouldn't know what you were asking for.

I've seen the clip of Cosmic head massage and that is no way anything near an IHM imo.

I learnt IHM from Helen Mcguiness when it first came out, at the time only Helen and Mehta were teaching it.

I know have been shown 4 versions of IHM, and it is nothing like what I was originally taught.

I have done 2 Indonesian massage courses, both quite different.

I've learnt Ayurvedic therapies from one person, a Doctor from Kerala, what he was teaching was "his version" of massage, doesn't mean that that is the only way to do it.

Diffferent regions have different styles of massage.

I note that thai massage is often advertised as a region of learning.

If you booked a swedish massage in 4 different places you would get differing treatments.

I have done 2 courses in Lomi lomi so far and know there is so much more to learn hence wanting to learn more.

I've studied 4 different ways of doing Thai foot massage, all have merits.

Its the therapists intention that is important, yes I agree.

yes, all types of massage have been blended into each other. We say Egyptians, Chinese and Indian massage borrow from each other to then lend themselves to other types of massage. India and Tibetan techniques are similar, and why?

Indonesian massage is similar to Thai, and why?

From the ebook and emails that I receive from Nancy, there doesnt seem to be any animosity. I have learnt from someone from Hawaii, but the other 2 tutors are from the UK. That doesn't affect me in any way.

I have learnt most of my therapies from British people. Not by insisting on it, but because I haven't gone to Thailand to learn a version of it, India to learn a regions version of massage, etc etc etc.

and I must say that this is a really enjoyable discussion.

No soap boxes here!:)

As a non-contributor to this thread how get involved, lmao!:rollaugh:
Am I that notorious?!

OMG I just agree with you so much, it was automatic

Please forgive me!

thanks for that Cola, that is really interesting. so, what is Auntie Margaret lomi lomi compared to Temple style?

Autie Margaret lomi lomi looks pretty much like your average massage, only the area being worked on is uncovered, none of the minimal draping often associated with lomi. Temple Style looks soooo different to your average massage, it's a great photo/video opportunity and gets lots of media/youtube coverage. Auntie Margaret lomi lomi is nowhere near as exciting to watch so it doesn't get the same level of coverage. It's the same reasons behind the standard photo of a massage seems to be a beautiful young woman, her face turned to the side with a blissful expression, a flower behind her ear and a few hot stones on her back, looks much more entertaining than a photo of someone with their face in the face hole and an oily back.
I'm sure Autie Margaret style lomi has it's powerful subtleties, but the few times I've had a lomi lomi treatment in Hawaii, I think they were all Auntie Margaret style and not what I was expecting, they were all pretty much your average Swedishy massage of varying quality (I didn't know there were different styles, so just had a few different treatments, I'd only experienced temple style before (though it wasn't called temple style) and thought that was what lomi lomi was and was expecting that would be what you'd get if you got a lomi lomi in Hawaii) This was 15years ago. I tried upmarket spas and local clinics and local home based practitioners, I was trying to experience the 'authentic' style.

Cola - thanks for the info. Your experiences seem to reinforce the massage descriptions in Nancy Kahalewai's book ‘Hawaiian Lomilomi’ - which seem very similar to what most of us would describe as a standard 'Swedish-style' massage.

Following on from Maychang's initial query, I have seen various DVDs advertising Lomilomi (some of them quite expensive) but haven't purchased any, because I am not clear as to which, if any, of them teach 'Temple style' (which is what I would be interested in learning more of) and which of them simply teach 'Auntie Margaret' style - ie standard massage techniques which most of us will have learnt on our basic
training courses.

Regards

Alan

what is this "auntie Margaret" mention mean? I've never come across it today.

I had a discussion today about lomi lomi and peoples perceptions of what it is is very differing.

I perceive it to be the the long flowing strokes with forearms and hands but rhythmic. My colleague looked horrified and perceived it as a swedish with forearms.

As we are both going on the course, it seems with both want different things from the course.

The demo video on (15MB) is Auntie Margaret style.
If you google Auntie margaret lomi you will gets lots of results. She was one of the first to openly teach a form of lomi lomi to non-Hawaiians, and a lot of the moves in that are familiar to temple style, but temple style has the 'flying' to move around the table.
The first course I did (which I much later found out was what gets called temple style) was a 6 or 7 day live in course. We literally did not touch a body for the first 4 days, it was all learning the foot work and arm moves and how to get around the table without a body being involved. I was getting a bit concerned I'd signed up for a dance class rather than a massage class for a while, eventually there was a body on the table and contact was made and it was massage, all done with the flying moves we'd been doing for days. I'dsay the first 10 days of training was all pretty much just the flying moves on various parts of the body. Higher levels covered more specific work and much of it looks pretty much like Auntie Margaret style.

hiya maychang was checking out lomilomi training and this forum came up...wondered if you could let me know the one you mentioned in march im thinking of taking a coarse in woverhampton in march wondered if thats it ?3 days compared to rosseles 12 day though it sounds ok

hiya maychang was checking out lomilomi training and this forum came up...wondered if you could let me know the one you mentioned in march im thinking of taking a coarse in woverhampton in march wondered if thats it ?3 days compared to rosseles 12 day though it sounds ok

No, I'm doing mine in April now, in Durham. its 3 days.