RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

Hi all,

The latest situation is that Shambo has not been slaughtered yet, but is in imminent danger.

The politicians care about only one thing: votes.

It seems that the Tories, LibDems and Plaid Cymru in one unholy bloodthirsty alliance, have joined together to slaughter Shambo, regardless of

• whether he has bovine TB or not,
• whether hecan be treated successfullyor not, AND
• the sensitivities ofBritish Hindus like myself, who regard this as nothing short of MURDER.

The website does suggest that if you care please send a personal email to the Minister in charge, Jane Davidson.

I have.

I urge you to do the same.

Regards.

Prashna

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

Hi Prashna,
I have e-mailed Jane Davidson asking for compassion and a pardon from this death sentence for ' Shambo '. I hope our e-mails have some effect.

Oakapple xx

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

Can you pm me the email address, I cannot open the link to it?.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

Looking back at some of these posts, I find a few members very antaganistic, not just on this thread but any thread mentioning either vegetarian or vegan views on compassion!!.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

I've found elsewhere that this subject seems to provoke some extreme anti attitudes. It seems to make people feel uncomfortable on a deep level and they would rather the story would just go away.

The story travelling around the world in the way that it has been a phenomenon. It has raised the question 'What is a life worth' now when we find ourselves in a world where life seems to have become so devalued.

It has made many people question their most fundamental attitudes to Life and Death, and also led to some sensible and deep discussions on a whole range of topics; animal welfare, virus control, compassion and religion.

Maybe some of antagonism can be seen as a positive sign; a sign of consciences stirring perhaps that would rather not be stirred?

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

Pulminary tuberculosis is more infectious to humans than bovine tuberculosis. Some excerpts from several current news stories (courtesy of the BBC if you want to check) regarding HUMANS in Britain with pulminary tuberculosis...

Dr Mac Walapu, a consultant in communicable disease control with the NPHS, said: "A positive test does not necessarily mean the child has TB. It can be caused by exposure to other germs similar to TB which are mostly harmless," he said.
"The affected pupils are being treated with antibiotics."

NHS Grampian said it (pulminary tuberculosis) was not particularly infectious...it is rare for the infection to be passed.

"TB is treatable with a combination of antibiotics and can be completely cured."

I haven't read anything yet about when those infected (or suspected of infection) are to be killed but will keep you posted.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

As i said before , my dad had TB twice in his lifetime, he didnt get a bullet in his head!!.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

A word from a farmer.....

Dear Mr Miliband

Shambo has not tested positive for bovine tuberculosis.

Shambo has reacted to a screening test for bovine tuberculosis, nothing more.

In order to lawfully slaughter Shambo your colleagues in Wales must demonstrate that Shambo's reaction is consistent with him being affected with bovine tuberculosis. Alternatively they can do what they have repeatedly done to us intimidate, threaten and force the Hindus to give Shambo up voluntarily- I know who my money is on.

The other option is to lie in Court and get the Court to sanction Shambo's unlawful slaughter- which is probably what will happen - though may be not.

We had 9 'Shambos' only one was lawfully slaughtered.
We still have 6 'Shambos' that have been on death row since 19th January. We have had a break from DEFRA intimidation - last seen on 30th April. Though I expect they will be knocking on the door shortly.

This is 'carnage by computer' as it was in FMD - your vets are misleading you - Shambo's slaughter would not be reasonable nor proportionate- there is simple, at this stage, insufficient evidence to cause him to be slaughtered. I for one will be cheering if DEFRA fall flat on their faces. Though as it happens all the time - really its business as usual.

Yours sincerely

Nicola Morris
ex Worcestershire Dairy Farmer (a closed herd)
- killed off not by TB but by DEFRA. You didn't get us during FMD but had a bloody good try - I knew then that your department's vendetta against us would be successful under the guise of what is laughingly refered to as DEFRA's 'TB control policies'

ps I am not a badger boiler - what ever happened to immunisation?
Your vets are misleading you- start asking the right questions.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

Farmer's Guardian - May. 10th, 2007 - Credibility of TB Tests Called Into Question

Farmer Alastair Driver's experience has raised questions about the credibility of the TB testing and valuation regimes. Roxy, one of his herd, came within 48 hours of being culled in February after she was deemed to have reacted to a pre-movement test performed by a private vet. Two days later, Defra informed Mr Bown that the four-year-old cow was to be TB tagged the next day and slaughtered the day after that. But adamant a mistake had been made, he refused state vets permission to enter his farm.At his own request, his whole herd was then tested by local state vets and shown to be in the clear.He then persuaded the Department to grant a re-test of Roxy and 11 other animals tested at the same time on the grounds that the vet had not followed the correct procedures laid out by Defra in performing the tests. This took place last week and all 12 animals were negative..."

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

What abrilliantresponse from that farmer. Needs more like her to stand up and defy DEFRA.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

ORIGINAL: Barafundle

Farmer's Guardian - May. 10th, 2007 - Credibility of TB Tests Called Into Question

Farmer Alastair Driver's experience has raised questions about the credibility of the TB testing and valuation regimes. Roxy, one of his herd, came within 48 hours of being culled in February after she was deemed to have reacted to a pre-movement test performed by a private vet. Two days later, Defra informed Mr Bown that the four-year-old cow was to be TB tagged the next day and slaughtered the day after that. But adamant a mistake had been made, he refused state vets permission to enter his farm.At his own request, his whole herd was then tested by local state vets and shown to be in the clear.He then persuaded the Department to grant a re-test of Roxy and 11 other animals tested at the same time on the grounds that the vet had not followed the correct procedures laid out by Defra in performing the tests. This took place last week and all 12 animals were negative..."

Hi Barafundle,

Thank you for that citation.

If you look back along this thread, you will find that I had drawn attention to the unreliability of the SIMPLISTIC skin test, in post 2.

I reproduce below the most relevant parts from that post.

"...as the Skanda Vale website is a non-medical one, it cannot and does not give the scientific aspects of the test. That can be found for example at:

[link= http://www.oie.int/eng/Normes/mmanual/A_00054.htm ] http://www.oie.int/eng/Normes/mmanual/A_00054.htm [/link]

and

[link= http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=1319910&pageindex=5#page ] http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=1319910&pageindex=5#page [/link]

To summarise, the simple skin test is NOT definitive. It can provide an indication or suspicion but NOT proof.

"Traditional bacterial culture remains the routine method for confirmation of infection."

Last sentence, 3rd para ref.1.

To slaughter shambo on the basis of such an unreliable and simplistic skin test amounts to blind prejudice andon that ground alone, is just unacceptable.

Regards.

Prashna

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

Watch this

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

ORIGINAL: Barafundle
Watch this

[link= http://www.skandavale.org/david_taylor_interview.htm ]http://www.skandavale.org/david_taylor_interview.htm[/link]

Thank you Barafundle, for that link.

"I would bet a MILLION DOLLARS that he is not an active or even a latent case!

It would be an absolute crime to put this animal down!"

Just two quotes from David Taylor, International Zoo Vet, when he EXAMINED the bull himself.

Please see that video. It is absolutely essential viewing. It supports everything you and I have been saying on this thread.

Regards.

Prashna.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

I hope it’s now been made clear on this thread that DEFRA’s slaughter notice is completely unnecessary.

I’d like to think that’s why those members that have supported DEFRA’s position here aren’t arguing for it anymore. If so, my faith in reasoned argument might have been restored.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

I don't think anybody has been essentially arguing for DEFRA. I think people made it quite clear that if the animal was found to be infected then necessary actions should be taken, but it seems that nobody has got off their behinds and actually done the proper tests yet.

Love and Reiki Hugs

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

Thanks for the reply Energylz.

The position is that DEFRA is not allowing the communty to treat Shambo and has so far refused to retest him. Also, from what I understand they are unwilling to join in discussions with the community as to a way forward. Apparently they're waiting for the minister to decide what his fate should be, though they are still advising slaughter.

All the more reason to sign the petition.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

I think the secretof saving Shambo is continuing publicity.

BTW whats the latin mean?.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

I think you're right caringsoul.

And maybe we're doing a little bit to help here too? Hope so.

The latin translates as 'Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound'

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

In the news, David Taylor's points spelt out:

Jun 15 2007
Spare sacred TB bull, pleads animal expert

Aninternational animal expert warned today that slaughtering a sacred Hindu bull diagnosed with TB would be “scandalous”.

Veterinary expert David Taylor also put the risk of Shambo infecting the public or the farming community at “less than zero”.

The sacred bull has lived on weeks past the original date set for his demise, but supporters fear the end could come at any time.

The isolated Skanda Vale Temple in the hamlet of Llanpumsaint, west Wales, is host to a community of 20 monks and six nuns.

Its peace and tranquility were shattered last month when six-year-old Shambo tested positive for bovine tuberculosis.

Since then temple leaders have waged a high profile international campaign to prevent the Friesian bull being slaughtered.

The Welsh Assembly has made no final decision about his future but official policy is clear – he should be slaughtered.

Now temple leaders have won the backing of veterinary expert David Taylor, who claims he can treat the bull even if he has TB.

He is a prominent member of the International Zoo Veterinary Group, and visited Shambo in quarantine at the temple.

He has suggested sending a blood sample to America, where testing is more advanced, to get a definitive conclusion.

He also examined Shambo himself and said:

“I think that this is a very healthy bull.
“I would bet one million dollars that he is not active, and he may well not even be a latent case. But he is in very good condition. It would be an absolute crime to put that animal down.
“Once we have got from the Welsh Assembly the go-ahead to preserve the life of this very unique creature then I shall be doing much more intensive discussion with my colleagues about exactly which drugs to use and in what dose.
“I am not prepared to say that an animal has got TB unless it is a definite active case or it’s a latent case where you can identify where the organism is.
“Having seen the quarantine here in this temple I think it would be scandalous to slaughter this animal which is very very special and which is absolutely unique living in a temple.
“It is highly prized and significant to literally millions of citizens of this country and abroad.
“The Welsh Assembly has got to take account of this but leave the science to us."
“As far as I am concerned we can take the diagnosis further, we can do therapy just to be on the safe side, and that is combined with the quarantine.

“The risk to the public or to the Welsh cattle farming community is less than zero.”

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

BoyI bet DEFRA is scared now, as if the blood test comes back negative itcould have a national affect on all cattle and even more so the proposed badger cull. It will show that DEFRAis talking a load of (excuse the pun!) Bull!!.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

"It would be an absolute crime to put that animal down...the risk to the public or to the Welsh cattle farming community is less than zero." - David Taylor, Veterinary expert

[color="#ff0000"]In a statement on Tuesday, rural affairs minister Jane Davidson said she was minded to proceed with the order to kill Shambo!!!

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

ORIGINAL: Barafundle

"It would be an absolute crime to put that animal down...the risk to the public or to the Welsh cattle farming community is less than zero." - David Taylor, Veterinary expert

In a statement on Tuesday, rural affairs minister Jane Davidson said she was minded to proceed with the order to kill Shambo!!!

Hi Barafundle,
........................
Post deletedin response to comments.

I still believe that this slaughter is morally wrong, legally unnecessaryand totally insensitive.

There is no danger to the health or well-being of any animal or human being.

Therefore I cannot accept that this proposal can be justified on those grounds.

Regards.

Prashna

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

Other communities get their customs and wishes respected, even enshrined in British Law because they use suicide bombing and violent, even lethal protests. Now, even the threat of the same does the trick.

Prashna, I truly think that this statement is over the top.

With love
Sunanda xxx

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

I agree with sunanda, I think that statement is way off the mark. I don't recall the British laws being changed because of the actions of any terrorst activity, at least not in respect of assisting terrorists.

What an odd statement to make.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

Other communities get their customs and wishes respected, even enshrined in British Law because they usesuicide bombing and violent, even lethal protests. Now,eventhe threat of the same does the trick.

I haveto agree with both Energylz and Sunanda on that quote.

Jane Davidson is a British politician. That particular species is not noted for its morals.

I also think that that quote is a bit personal, I personally know of politicians that have high morals. Just because they may not agree with you on various issues, that does not mean that they have no morals.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

ORIGINAL: Healistic

Jane Davidson is a British politician. That particular species is not noted for its morals.

I also think that that quote is a bit personal, I personally know of politicians that have high morals. Just because they may not agree with you on various issues, that does not mean that they have no morals.

Ah, I didn't see that statement. You are correct Healistic.

moderators hat on
Prashna,
Please refrain from making negative and possibly libelous comments about specific persons on the public forums. Healthypages accepts no responsibility for such comments, but reserves the right for moderators to edit or delete such comments/posts as we see appropriate.
moderators hat off

Love and Reiki Hugs

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

ORIGINAL: Healistic

I also think that that quote is a bit personal, I personally know of politicians that have high morals. Just because they may not agree with you on various issues, that does not mean that they have no morals.

Hi Healistic, and others,

I have edited my post just to respect your wish.

However, could you please tell me where I stated that this particular or indeed any politician has "no morals".

Of course, everyone has morals, to a greater or lesser extent. I never, repeat never, stated that JD or indeed any other sentient being has "no morals".

JD might well believe that orderinga healthy animalto be slaughtered without due cause is morally correct. There is a good deal of evidence to suggest that shambo does not have bovine TB. Even if he had, thre are effective treatments which the community is willing to pay for.

You might agree with her. I do not.

Just as you have every right to believe that she is morally correct in this specific action, I have the same right to believe the opposite.

If for having that belief and saying so, you believe that I have compromised a public forum then by all means please delete my username. Because I shall always say so.

Regards.

Prashna

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

Hi Healistic, and others,I have edited my post just to respect your wish.However, could you please tell me where I stated that this particular or indeed any politician has "no morals".Of course, everyone has morals, to a greater or lesser extent. I never, repeat never, stated that JD or indeed any other sentient being has "no morals".

Of Course I will tell you what you said.

Jane Davidson is a British politician. That particular species is not noted for its morals.

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

ORIGINAL: Healistic

Of Course I will tell you what you said.

Jane Davidson is a British politician. That particular species is not noted for its morals.

Thank you Healistic,

Now English is NOT my mother tongue, as you know. Nor do I hold advanced qualifications in English language or literature.

So please asksomeone suitably qualified in those areas the following. Or indeed if you are yourself so qualified, perhaps even teaching English at Advanced level, ask yourself.

1. Why is "That particular species..." NOT a general comment?

I genuinely believed and still do and will continue to believe until you can show me otherwise, that the comment I made was a general one and NOT a specific one.

2. Since when did " not noted for its morals" equate to "no morals"?

I genuinely believed and still do and will continue to believe until you can show me otherwise, that the comment I made simply meant "not morally outstanding"!

Regards.

Prashna

RE: Shambo's Life in danger - please help.

[color="#000000"][blockquote]quote:

Hi Healistic, and others,I have edited my post just to respect your wish.However, could you please tell me where I stated that this particular or indeed any politician has "no morals".Of course, everyone has morals, to a greater or lesser extent. I never, repeat never, stated that JD or indeed any other sentient being has "no morals".[/blockquote]

Of Course I will tell you what you said.

[blockquote]quote:

Jane Davidson is a British politician. That particular species is not noted for its morals.
[/blockquote]

Is there something wrong with this statement, Healistic? Are British politicians noted for their morals?
In Prashna's defence here Healistic, he doesn't actually say here that they have no morals.

Ms. Davidson is no doubt acting on advice she has received from powerful lobbies, but the point is she doesn't have to. Apparently this is easier than changing a bad policy.

I don't know what Ms. Davidson is like as a person, but unfortunately she operates in a murky world where too often principles take a second place to economics (Saudi Arabian back handers and a certain war in Iraq come to mind here).

As exceptions that prove the rule though, I have received several messages from Welsh Assembly members who oppose this death sentence on the grounds of plain common sense.

Ms. Davidson has said she is minded to allow the slaughter of Shambo on the grounds that there are no antibiotics licensed in Britain to treat bovine TB (and remember, this is only a suspected case). They are not licensed here because if they were the value of a carcass would be affected by their use (remember too Shambo isn't going to enter the food chain). There are antibiotics licensed to treat any other animal. The meat industry is a powerful lobby and unfortunately money talks.