RE: Devotion and Love in Hinduism
cooeee... just adding my humble thoughts... 😉
so... my understanding, limited mind you, is that we have this big chat about our life choice for the next time before we do come back, so... maybe those killed in acts like war, "knew" that this would be their karma and accepted it on that basis?
as for punk head bangers... tsk tsk, V... its just a way of expressing themselves and some of the music was good!
birdsong... not read it myself but those i know who have, have wowed about it. try charlotte grey too, WW2...
haha... can you imagine... us all having a right old gos "up there" with sunanda entertaining us with her harp playing.... remind me not to make any bets with you, V... i dont know if i'll like the consequences! 😀
RE: Devotion and Love in Hinduism
Gosh, you've all been writing so much. It's hard work keeping up with you folks! 
Here's the first of a few . . .
ORIGINAL: venetian
Before Bollywood music and dance in Hinduism wasn't really those things at all. They were both completely ritualistic - at least music was, I know. It wasn't, in other words, directly anything to do with entertainment, fun, letting go, etc.
Not sure I'd agree about the bit on lack of entertainment and fun. The stories about Krishna's childhood talk about him playing garba dance with his gopi friends. The image is of Krishna enchanting hearts and minds with his flute, such that even the cows they were hurding were entranced. Garba still takes place these days in northern parts of India during the festival of Navrathri.
ORIGINAL: venetian
In fact it's only a few centuries ago that music was ever really played outside of temples.
I wasn't aware of this. Why do you reckon this was so? To my feeling (as opposed to my knowledge), there's a strong tradition of song in Hindu culture. For example, prior to a bride getting married all the local ladies and family would get together and sing songs whilst painting her hands and feet with mendhi (henna). There would be songs of sorrow as the bride was taken away by her husband. If what you're saying is correct then I wonder where the Indian national obsession for songs come from? This is a country where playback singers such as Lata Mangeshkar are revered almost as deities for the angelic sweetness of their voices.
RE: Devotion and Love in Hinduism
ORIGINAL: sunanda
PS I too love Santoshi Maa, First heard about her in Roger Housden's book on Sacred India.
Cub - I get a big smile on my face when I think of her.
She's great, isn't she? 🙂 She's got the severity of Kali with those who cross her path, but the gentleness of a mother. I can see why she became a favourite of shy newly wed daughters. I wonder if there was a folk tale like knowledge of her in some communities before a story was made about her on film. We shall never know the true genesis . . .
Eek! it's my bed time. I'll come back to you all at the weekend on some other thoughts.
Cub, xx
RE: Devotion and Love in Hinduism
ORIGINAL: Sacredstar
On the Gita it is clear to me that it is not literal but all about the battle between the human self and divine self the battlefield being the physical plane. Surrendering control etc etc absolutely nothing to do with the word war in its literal sense.
Pandits and scholars in Hinduism would be near to agreeing with you. The war is used as allegory in the Gita. But it's not only about the divine "vs." human self. An important theme of the Gita (see my article at top) is on duty and how doing what is your Dharma in life can sometimes be OK irrespective of how it outwardly looks. Mind you, this was a political theme of the time as the author(s) were also trying to reinforce the caste system.
So it's not "about" war, right. However, a good percentage of Hindus would say that war, with everything in life, comes into it - that it can be correct to fight if it's in defence against an oppressor. So there's a split between the pacifist view of it (Gandhi's) and the other.
V
RE: Devotion and Love in Hinduism
Hi Cub,
Yes, I overstated on music in India - I really was thinking of 'classical' Indian music, not song. All peoples have song.
I got that from Roop Verma, sitar player, a direct disciple of Ravi Shankar, whom I spenta few days with. During that time some told him they thought he was better than Ravi but in humility he didn't make a gesture in reply. Roop really seemed to know his stuff so I believed him, and have also read it. What is now the raga developed from temple music (which was more mystical and not so flamboyant as ragas with all their duets to cater to the crowds at concerts).
A bit off-topic, but just to explain that though Roop Verma learned largely from Ravi S, Ravi is in the "modern" category of doing flamboyant (relatively) ragas, with the 4 movements and the exciting end, etc.
Roop has taken things back to before classical Hindu music came out of the temples. He typically has no "movements" and it's just a wave of sound from all players which I can't really describe in text. So I was referring to this - the temple music started getting a bit of ego wrapped up in it - "Let's see how clever we can look" - and eventually ended up played in various places and to make money (money once wasn't amde from it - the musicians were like priests, "kept" by the temple or sect.
Mind you, all this is not to say I don't like ragas today - especially female vocal ones, one of my fave types of music in the world.
V