RE: Devotion and Love in Hinduism
ORIGINAL: venetian
An important theme of the Gita (see my article at top) is on duty and how doing what is your Dharma in life can sometimes be OK irrespective of how it outwardly looks. So it's not "about" war, right. However, a good percentage of Hindus would say that war, with everything in life, comes into it - that it can be correct to fight if it's in defence against an oppressor. So there's a split between the pacifist view of it (Gandhi's) and the other.
V
I agree David. It is interesting to view the root word of 'war' and its meanings of 'confusion, conflict, contention' see other thread on inter-faith. Also interesting to me in the past spirit have asked me to 'resolve my difficulty with a situation' e.g. find a resolution to it within myself through forgiveness, zero judgement and/or unconditional love which brings us back to love and the title of your thread. Can we ask ourselves has GOD ever asked us to pick up a weapon of destruction or to do harm to another? No, never! Which brings us back to man's own consciousness and enemy thinking creating the enemy.
Is it not possible that the Gita is teaching people the Dharma to help them come to a peaceful resolution with their own confusion, conflicts and conflicts with others? By surrendering to their own divinity instead of picking up a weapon of destruction?
I looked for the roots of the words 'kill' and 'death' both ending a situation yet once again it comes back to intepretation and how we choose to resolve things in our own minds and hearts. Also how humanity wishes to use words to support its own darkness within, instead of living by the universal laws and creating harmony through the heart of communication and acheiving balance.
'Let thy actions then be pure, free from the bonds of desire', and this is 'the path of Karma Yoga, the path of consecrated action' (Mascaró ibid., 3: 7, 9).
Now can we say that using weapons of destruction are actions that are coming from pure intent?
Can we say that war as we understand it in modern terms is free from bonds of desire?
My heart of GOD says that war/fighting is not the path of Karma Yoga, the path of consecrated action.
Gandhi is a wonderful example of 'Be the change we wish to see in the world'.
being love
Kim xx
RE: Devotion and Love in Hinduism
Now taking this a stage further
(15.05) "Those who are free from pride and delusion, who have conquered the evil of attachment, who are constantly dwelling in the Supreme Self with all Kaama completely stilled, who are free from the dualities known as pleasure and pain; such undeluded persons reach the eternal goal." The Bhagavad-Gita
Are those that seek to go to war not in the attachment and attachment to an outcome?
Would an enemy/negative thinker who has not integrated the Dharma of the Gita respond/choose to resolve the difficulties by picking up weapons of destruction which is in complete opposition to religuishing pride (national and personal pride) ?
It is obvious to me that these people are still living in attachment to the physical realm and the delusion of duality.
being love
Kim xx
RE: Devotion and Love in Hinduism
ORIGINAL: Sacredstar
Now can we say that using weapons of destruction are actions that are coming from pure intent?
Hi Kim,
A few points, beginning again with the fact that there are different views on the Gita, I don't pretend to have all the answers, and since the Gita was written in a political climate, the Gita itself may have wrong attitudes about dharma (trying to maintain the caste system).
But I think different actions are sometimes called for in different situations. I agree that Gandhi was great and right to help resolve the Indian situation with pacifism. I don't think pacifism is always the answer however.
The Gita itself takes place within the Mahabarahta, which as a whole is an account of how consciousnesses which would disrupt Cosmic Harmony, seeking power from ego-desire,and God's Plan in this physical world (and beyond), had to be countered and overcome by those who remained in accord with God.
Would you forgive me if I say that pacifism is a subject that comes up from time to time in life, and I've discussed it so many times that I'm weary of it, and not interested in going deeply into the subject, or even at all. Everybody can just keep the views they have. But I try to make the most extreme example possible to demonstrate why I don't agree with total pacifism in all cases...
Suppose an Army led by a man just like Hitler, as evil as the Nazis, had overcome Europe and tortured and raped everyone there, and they wanted to invade Britain. Just supose that they were advancing down the channel tunnel on foot or whatever. Suppose a huge bomb had been planted in the tunnel and the alien forces were already around it, but you were the one person in the tunnel near the button who could press it. If you press it, a few thousand men are killed and the tunnel is closed for good. If you don't press it, 60 million people in Britain will be raped and tortured to death. That's an extreme example of course, but in such a case I wouldn't hesitate. Of course we've all seen even recently examples of "righteous wars" which were not at all, but sometimes I do believe there can be righteous violence, under God's Will. WWII for example. It's much the situation Arjuna faces.
But as said, I'm weary of the subject over years of it coming up ;)so don't want to go into a whole sub-thread on it, myself.
Venetian xxx
RE: Devotion and Love in Hinduism
So with devotion and love let us refer back to the Gita David.
Krishna said,"Do your duty, Arjun, as your nature dictates. All work fetters, as all fire gives smoke. Only selfless duty saves. Fix your mind on me. Surrender all deeds to me. All problems will be solved by my grace. Pride will lead only to your moral ruin. If, filled with pride, you say, 'I will not fight,' it is all in vain. You are foolish. Fight you will, your nature will make you fight. Your karma will make you fight. You will fight in spite of yourself."
-Mahabharata, Book Six: Bhishma (P. Lal)
Here Krishna is understanding human weakness is he not and asking for Ajuna to surrender all to the Grace of GOD.
The Blessed Lord said: You are grieving over those who are not fit to be grieved for, yet you speak words like a great man of wisdom. But the wise do not grieve neither over the living nor over the dead. Never did I not exist, nor did you nor these kings. Nor shall we ever cease to exist in the future.
-Bhagavad Gita 2.11 and 2.12
Would he say this about a world war?
Life without Krishna has no joy for me. Tell me what is good for me. I am a wanderer with a hollow heart.
-Mahabharata, Book Sixteen: The Battle With Clubs
This message is interesting to me as just like week I was given 'A woman that is barren has nothing to give' I understand this to mean those without GOD in their heart are barren. The seed of love has not grown. The seed of love cannot grow without fertile soil.
Arjun chose Krishna, though Krishna had vowed to lay down his arms on the battlefield ...
... Krishna asked: "Why did you pick me, knowing I would not fight?"
-Mahabharata, Book Five: War Preparations(P.Lal)
O Arjun, the scorcher of your foes, it is by single minded devotion alone that I can be known, seen in reality, and also entered into. O Son of Pandu, he who performs actions for Me, who considers Me as the Supreme Goal, who is My devotee, and is devoid of attachments; who is without animosity towards all living beings, he alone attains Me.
-Bhagavad Gita 11.54 and 11.55
Deciding to surrender himself to whatever Krishna advised, Arjun said,"O Krishna, I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure due to weakness of heart. Surely I am being consumed by miserly and selfish considerations, but I am not able to overcome them. In this condition I ask you to please tell me what is best for me. Now I am your disciple and a soul surrendered unto you. Please instruct me. I can see no means to drive away this grief. Even winning a prosperious kingdom equal to that of the gods will not assuage my sorrow. O Govinda, I will not fight."
-Mahabharata, Book Six: Bhishma(Krishna Dharma)
Krishna now smiled more broadly. he was pleased that Arjun, his dear friend, was ready to accept him as teacher and guide. Holding up his hand in blessing, he said, "Although you are speaking learned words from the scriptures, you are still mourning for something unworthy of grief. A wise man laments neither for the living nor the dead. Both you, I and all these assembled kshatriyas have always existed and will always exist. We are eternal souls, passing from body to body.
-Mahabharata, Book Six: Bhishma(Krishna Dharma)
He who sees me in all things, and all things in me, is never far from me, and I am never far from him.
-Lord Krishna from Chapter 6, Bhishma(P. Lal); also part of Bhagavad Gita
Love beyond measure
Kim xx
RE: Devotion and Love in Hinduism
Now my view is that if we were teaching children these virtues and core values of devotion, love and surrender to the heart of GOD then world wars and war and fighting would never happen, for they would gain no support from man. Hence we have to be the change we wish to see in the world.
being love
Kim xx