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It is a fact that more than 70 per cent of the ancient Hindu Rishis, or enlightened masters of India, belonged to the lower castes.
Valmiki and Vyasa , who wrote the epics Ramayana and Mahabharatha respectively, belonged to the lower castes.
In ancient times , one's caste was determined by one's temperament, talents and inclinations. Caste was not a barrier to the lower caste people, who rose to the level of the upper castes through their talents.
This was the reason why Kshatriyas like the Buddha and Vishwamitra , became Brahmins or men of spiritual nature and why a Brahmin like Parashurama became a Kshatriya.
This is also the reason why shudras or low caste people like Valmiki , Vyasa, Vasishtha, Narada, Drona, Karna ,Thiruvalluvar were raised to the position of a Brahmin or Kshatriya , in virtue or their superior learning or valour.
Much more of this information can be found in Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's book"Heritage of the dalits".
Shankaracharya and others , were the great caste-makers. They would sometimes get hordes of Baluchis and at once make them Kshatriyas, and also get hordes of fishermen and make them Brahmins forthwith.
It was with the advent of the foreign invasions in India, that the caste system became rigid, and migration of people to different castes were stopped.
Even then, enlightened masters from the lower castes such as Kabir, Ravi Das, Sri Narayana guru were revered by the upper castes as well.
When India gained independence due to the efforts of Hindus like Gandhi, perfect equality was thrust upon the masses of India , no matter to what caste one belonged to, thus reestablishing and continuing the ancient tradition of India.
Even the constitution of independent India , was created bya Dalit called B.R.Ambedkar.
It will take some time for the deadweight of tradition of the rigid caste system to be removed from India. But as enlightened Hinduism and Buddhism, as preached by Gandhi, Swami Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and others are reaching the masses, slowly these shackles are being dissolved .
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: niranjan
1. It is a fact that more than 70 per cent of the ancient Hindu Rishis, or enlightened masters of India, belonged to the lower castes.
2. shudras or low caste people like Valmiki , Vyasa, Vasishtha, Narada, Drona, Karna ,Thiruvalluvar were raised to the position of a Brahmin or Kshatriya , in virtue or their superior learning or valour.
Hi niranjan,
Could you please cite some well-known and verifiable sources to support your extraordinary statements. Preferably a time-honoured one, other than Ravi Shankar, whoever he might be!
1. Source of 70% claim please. Decent sample size eg more than 100, would help.
2. Evidence in each case please. eg AFAIK Karna was never raised to a Kshastriya barna. He was a kshashtriya by birth.
Regards. 🙂
Prashna
RE: Caste system
A while ago, I read that a growing number of Hindus in India are in fact turning to other faiths, as a protest at the caste system.
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: Guinevere
A while ago, I read that a growing number of Hindus in India are in fact turning to other faiths, as a protest at the caste system.
Hi Guinevere,
I believe, thata few months ago in a well-publicised event, a group ofscheduled caste people converted to Buddhism.
There is not and never has been any problem in Sanatana Dharma about that.
I hope that they find happiness in their new allegiance.
I also hope that they forsake the very considerable privileges and special status they enjoyed as a member of India's scheduled castes.
Regards.
Prashna
RE: Caste system
A while ago, I read that a growing number of Hindus in India are in fact turning to other faiths, as a protest at the caste system.
A few years back I remember a Hindu friend of mine refer to 'rice bowl Christians'. Apparently some scheduled caste Hindus were persuaded to convert to Christianity by being offered inducements such as rice. (I believe this would be Evangelical Protestantism rather than the long established branch of the Syrian Catholic church.)
Although Prashna says that Sanatana Dharma has no problem with low caste Hindus converting en masse to Buddhism, I was actually in India when one of these conversions took place and it caused quite a kerfuffle according to the newspapers.
Love
Sunanda xxx
PS Prashna - without meaning to be rude, I wonder if you would happily change your caste for
the very considerable privileges and special status
enjoyed by the scheduled castes?
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: sunanda
1.. Although Prashna says that Sanatana Dharma has no problem with low caste Hindus converting en masse to Buddhism, I was actually in India when one of these conversions took place and it caused quite a kerfuffle according to the newspapers.2. Prashna - without meaning to be rude, I wonder if you would happily change your caste for
the very considerable privileges and special status
enjoyed by the scheduled castes?
Hi Sunanda,
1. Yes I did say, "Sanatana Dharma has no problem with low caste Hindus converting...".
And that is PRECISELY what I meant.And I stand bythat statement.
I am not aware of any slokain Bhagabat Gita, or Brahma Sutra orThe Upanishads,that prohibits conversion?
What occurs in Society at any time, either individually or in a group is a social or political phenomenon, NOT A RELIGIOUS ONE. A newspaper is NOT a scripture on Sanatana Dharma, as I am sure you appreciate, but merely a reporting device. And not always accurate and objective!
Since, I did not witness the particular situation personally, I am unable to comment on it.
India is a vast country, as you know. Were you actually physically present at the scene of the "kerfuffle " as you call it?
2. You are not being rude, but being extremely obscure.
Are you suggesting that I was not born at all, or born of different parents?
Are you suggesting that I should disregard and disown every single relative of mine, my brother, sister, mother, father, the lot?
What I meant by privileges are very tangible, valuable and far-reaching legal provisions guaranteed by the Indian Constitution and followed in practice, For example:
- scheduled castes are given special rights and privilegesthat are notavailable to others.
- a very high proportion of places in Schools, colleges and Universities are RESERVED FOR THE SCHEDULED CASTES? I believe it used to be 25-30%. I have heard that in some states, there is a campaign right now for the reserved quota to be increased to 50%.
- areserved quota OF JOBS in the public sector, for scheduled castes (of a similar order).
Thesefacts are in the public domain and can be established easily enough by anyone who cares to do so.
Ipersonally have seenthe positive discrimination system that I have mentioned, applied across India, (AFAIK)when I was there. Ipersonally have seenthe positive discrimination system enablemany persons from lower castes to reach positions that they might not have reached otherwise. I am delighted that this was so.
And I believe the same positive discrimination system applies even today, possibly with the quotas increased!
My point was simply a plea for basic honesty and integrity.
Reject Sanatana Dharma if you wish: fine;
Thereby get rid of your caste ; No problem and best wishes.
But also reject your special privileges that came with your former caste.
Just a plea for integrity, that's all.
Regards.
Prashna
RE: Caste system
Hi Sunanda,
I have to say that I was surprised by your post.
You. more than anyone else on this MB, is living proof that the so-called "caste system" is disappearing before your very eyes!
For those that are not familiar (possibly a majority on this MB) with what the so-called "caste system" meant, here is a summary;
1. In a nutshell, all social contact with a shudra, dalit,or mletchha (Muslims, Christians etc ie all but Hundus, Buddhists or Jains)is taboo. This actually meant:
2. The shudra, dalit,or mletchha would be required, I repeat required to live outside the village, and travel only in specified times and routes, so that:
3. An upper caste person, esp. a Brahmin never even sees the shudra, dalit,or mletchha, or even crosses their shadow (keeping eyes closed), because if he/she does:
4. he/she must cleanse himself/herself by full immersion in the GangA, or the nearest river or failing that the nearest large body of water.
I believe there were several other means of purification employed. I couldn't be bothered even to find out about those.
5. The question of inter-marriage does not even arise. Eg If a Brahmin marries a shudra, dalit,or mletchha, he loses his brahmin caste.
6. The question of any physical contact does not even arise. Not even a shaking of hand. Of course, if no sight or even crosssing of shadow is permitted, this becomes redunadant.
7. The question of a shudra, dalit,or mletchha entering a temple does not even arise, because then a Brahmin would have to see a shudra, dalit,or mletchha.
Now then, SunandA, is it not a fact that you personally have repeatedly:
(a) stayed in close proximity with many Brahmins,
(b) entered temples
(c) shaken hands with many Hindus, even Brahmins.
So where is the much-vaunted caste system as far as you are concerned?
Please continue to enjoy your stay in BhArat. I wish you well.
Live long and prosper.
Prashna
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: sunanda
Prashna - without meaning to be rude, I wonder if you would happily change your caste forthe very considerable privileges and special status
enjoyed by the scheduled castes?
Hi SunandA,
I did not intend to respond to you 3 times in one day. Believe me, I do have better things to do.
But I was responding to another poster in another MB. And in doing so, I had to refer to my copy of the SrimadBhAgabatGitA . Certain slokas seem extremely pertinent to what you asked of me. I shall not try to give you my own translation, as I believe the effort will not be justified by the expected returns! So instead I shall cite some other's translations, which IMO are inadequate but serve to illustrate the point.
Chapter 18: MokshaYoga:
18:47 - Greater is one's own work, conducted in accordance with one's own dharma (inc. barna)
even it is carried out in a routine manner.
Than the work of another (ie, in accordance withsomeone else'sdharma inc. barna)
even when it is carried out to perfection.
When someone does the work that is natural to one's own self.
____ no sin ( adverse karma-phol) can attach to him.
I am truly puzzled!
Why should you even want me to abandon my own dharma?
Why should you wish me to go against SrimadBhAgabatGitA 18:47?
Enjoy your stay in BhArat.
Live long and prosper.
Prashna
RE: Caste system
Are you in favour of the caste system then Prashna? Isn't it archaic, fatalistic, anti-democratic, and holding the majority back even more than our class system in England?
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: spinal music
1. Are you in favour of the caste system then Prashna?
2. Isn't it archaic, fatalistic, anti-democratic, and
3. holding the majority back even more than our class system in England?
Hi spinal music,
I suspect that you have not read many of my posts. If you had, you would have known that Ihave believed inAdvaita VedAnta for a very long time and continue to do so.
In a nutshell, Advaita recognises no final distinction between sentient beings, eg between a human and an earthworm. So a distinction between human beings based on birth is meaningless to me, personally.
With that clear, I shall try to answer your questions:
1. Depends on what you understand by the caste system. The correct term is barnAshrama, BTW.
Since you have not explained what you understand by it, I have to go by the summary in my message 5 :
I have lived and worked in close proximity with such (shudra, dalit,or mletchha) all my life and continue to do so. I have never, I repeat never, had any problem shaking the hand of such. So the question of avoiding physical contact does not even arise!
I have personally escorted and welcomed such, on several occasions,to various temples and pujas including some of the holiest temples in BhArat. So the question of my preventing the entry of such to a temple does not even arise!
I know that the sons and daughters of many Hindus, including BrAhmans, marry outside caste and even non-Hindus! With the blessing of their parents! I have attended such marriages, and know this for a fact.
Several relatives of mine and my wife's have done the same. If our own sons chose to marry a outside caste or a non-Hindu, we would have no objections on that score.
Does that answer your question?
2. Archaic? My Oxford Reference Dictionary defines it as "ancient,...no longer in ordinary use"
In both senses of the term, I agree.
Fatalistic - No. The only, I repeat only definition of a brAhman that I would accept is "someone who seeks Brahman". In that sense the caste system is most definitely not fatalistic, because you can be one, if you choose to. On the contrary, it is most inspiring, as I see it.
Anti-democratic - No. Advaita is far more democratic than the greek concept ever was. In that it regards all sentient beings as being equal. And it treats the environment very similarly.
3. No. Most definitely not.
The positive discrimination system has enabled many so-called lower castes to reachpositions that they very probably would not have reached otherwise. It is indeed anti-democratic, in that many citizens enjoy greater rights than others by the accident of birth. Therefore it needs to be phased out gradually.
As for it "holding the majority back even more than our class system in England", I know from personal experience that that is simply false.
My own son completed the BVC course in London and was called to the Bar at Lincoln's Inn. He tried for three years to get a pupillage, unsuccessfully. He cannot practise as a Barrister for that reason.
Had he been born in the Upper Class, he would have just walked into a Barrister's Chambers by now, I believe.
Were we living in India, and he was a member of the 'scheduled caste' he would have walked into a legal job, simply on account of the "reserved quota" system.
Therefore, I know, from personal experience, that the class system in England is holding the majority b
RE: Caste system
Dear Prashna
It was perhaps a little mischievous of me to ask you the following:
PS Prashna - without meaning to be rude, I wonder if you would happily change your caste for the very considerable privileges and special statusenjoyed by the scheduled castes
But this is surely not the question to which you might logically respond with
Why should you even want me to abandon my own dharma?
I'm sorry if your buttons got pushed: let's not fall out on this matter.
With love
sunanda xxx
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: sunanda
Dear Prashna
let's not fall out on this matter. With love sunanda xxx
Dear SunandA,
I cannot imagine any circumstance or combination of circumstances, in which you and I could ever fall out, so long as you remain true to your chosen and sacred name of sunandA.
Prashna
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: spinal music
Are you in favour of the caste system then Prashna? Isn't it archaic, fatalistic, anti-democratic, and holding the majority back even more than our class system in England?
Hi spinal music and others,
You have already read my response. But I am nothing. What do my personal views matter?
I did ask Niranjan to cite his sources. He has not yet done so and may never do. So, allow me tocite some. You may have heard of Swami Vivekananda; the greatest exponent of Sanatana Dharma in English that the world has ever seen.
He did talk about the caste system; here:
[link= http://www.geocities.com/athens/olympus/5208/vedanta/mission.html ]http://www.geocities.com/athens/olympus/5208/vedanta/mission.html[/link]
An excerpt:
"we read that in the Satya Yuga there was only one caste, and that was the Brahmin. We read in the Mahabharata that the whole world was in the beginning peopled with Brahmins, ...
So much then for niranjan's claim.
and that as they began to degenerate, they became divided into different castes, and that when the cycle turns round, they will all go back to that Brahminical origin. This cycle is turning round now, and I draw your attention to this fact. Therefore our solution of the caste question is not degrading those who are already high up, is not running amuck through food and drink, is not jumping out of our own limits in order to have more enjoyment, but it comes by every one of us, fulfilling the dictates of our Vedantic religion, by our attaining spirituality, and by our becoming the ideal Brahmin.
There is a law laid on each one of you in this land by your ancestors, whether you are Aryans or non-Aryans, Rishis or Brahmins, or the very lowest outcasts. The command is the same to you all, that you must make progress without stopping, and that from the highest man to the lowest Pariah, every one in this country has to try and become the ideal Brahmin.
This Vedantic ideal is applicable not only here but over the whole world. Such is our ideal of caste as meant for raising all humanity slowly and gently towards the realisation of that great ideal of the spiritual man who is non-resisting, calm, steady, worshipful, pure, and meditative. In that ideal there is God.
Please note: "all humanity" .
Not just Brahmins, nor just Hindus, all humanity.
As it happens that's my ideal too.
You will find Viv's complete works here:
[link= http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/complete_works.htm ]http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/complete_works.htm[/link]
RE: Caste system
Thank you Prashna for your replies. One thing I don't understand is why you use a capital A in Sunanda's name, amongst other places. What is the significance of this?
Sharon
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: spinal music
Thank you Prashna for your replies. One thing I don't understand is why you use a capital A in Sunanda's name, amongst other places. What is the significance of this?
Sharon
Hi ShAron,
Because SunandA is a Sanskrit word. Sanskrit is a fully phonetic language and the rules of pronunciation are quite exact and well specified. Difficult to transliterate in English.
Ioften use the ITRANS 5.3 system. For details of ALL FOUR transliteration systems and their comparison, please see:
[link= http://www.sanskrit-sanscrito.com.ar/english/sanskrit/sanskrit3part2.html#Introducsanskrit3part2 ] http://www.sanskrit-sanscrito.com.ar/english/sanskrit/sanskrit3part2.html#Introducsanskrit3part2 [/link]
I shall illustrate only the first vowel.
a ; as in ball ---and--- A ; as in father
Hence sunandA.
Similarly your name phonetically written, using ITRANS becomes shAran.
Hope that clarifies.
Regards.
Prashna
PS: You might wonder what the name SunandA means. We did cover thatlast November, but here is a reminder.
SunandA = Su + nand + A
Su = Good; or in this context auspicious. (Sanskrit is very context-sensitive)
nand = Verb root (in Sanskrit, DhAtu Roop) means to be glad, to rejoice, to be pleased etc.
A = to convert the noun to its femine form. Therefore:
SunandA = Auspicious joyful (female).
RE: Caste system
So shouldn't you be spelling your own name as PrAshnA?
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: Energylz
So shouldn't you be spelling your own name as PrAshnA?
Hi Energylz,
Short answer: NO.
Long Answer: Both a's are pronounced as the 'a' in ball.
I suspect you have looked at the spelling from an English perspective. The actual word in Sanskrit and in Bengali (my Mother tongue) means "question".
Regards.
Prashna.
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: Prashna
ORIGINAL: Energylz
So shouldn't you be spelling your own name as PrAshnA?
Hi Energylz,
Short answer: NO.
Long Answer: Both a's are pronounced as the 'a' in ball.
I suspect you have looked at the spelling from an English perspective. The actual word in Sanskrit and in Bengali (my Mother tongue) means "question".
I am glad you asked me that question. Because of you, I have now looked up on the accuracy of the 'sh' and can confirm that even that was correct. You see, in Sanskrit Alphabet as in Bengali there are 3 s' or sibilants; palatal, cerebral and dental. In Prashna, the sibilant is the palatal one and in ITRANS it is correctly written as 'sh'.
So, thanks to you, I am now quite sure. Thank you, once again.
Regards.
Prashna.
Edited just to sort out the quotes which were displaying wrongly. 😉
RE: Caste system
Thanks again Prashna, I'm sorry to hear about your son's disappointing response from the bar.
Sharon (I think I'll keep the familiar spelling if you don't mind!)
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: spinal music
Thanks again Prashna, I'm sorry to hear about your son's disappointing response from the bar.
Sharon (I think I'll keep the familiar spelling if you don't mind!)
Thank you Sharon.
As I see it life is what it is, not what we would like it to be.
It's up to us to make the most of it, as far as we can.
Sharon is a beautiful name, why would you change any aspect of it?
Reminds me of Rose of Sharon, Hibiscus syriacus.
Live long and prosper.
Prashna.
RE: Caste system
I suspect you have looked at the spelling from an English perspective.
Yep, I just read it as I saw it and it didn't fit with your previous explanation of the 'a' and 'A'.
ORIGINAL: Prashna
ORIGINAL: Energylz
So shouldn't you be spelling your own name as PrAshnA?Short answer: NO.
Long Answer: Both a's are pronounced as the 'a' in ball.
So in English we would pronounce your name Pr-aw-shn-aw, have I got that right? 😮
Love and Reiki Hugs
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: Energylz
So in English we would pronounce your name Pr-aw-shn-aw, have I got that right? 😮
Love and Reiki Hugs
Oh dear, Energylz
You are nearly there but not quite!
I can see your difficulty, which arises from being accustomed to a non-phonetic language. I hope you would not mind this explanation.
AFAIK, the "aw" as in Law for example is a slightly l-o-n-g-e-r sound than the a in say 'ball'.
The difference might well be in milliseconds, but even those milliseconds count in Sanskrit. It's a really tough lingo, that's why it became extinct. You might think that greater differences exist between different local accents in any langiage inc. of course Emglish.
And you would be right, also in Bengali. But not in Sanskrit.
In Sanskrit small differences in pronunciation can lead to large differences in meaning and hence give rise to misunderstanding.
You might find the example that I cited here under "perfect translation" in the Jokes forum illustrative:
[link= http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=420375 ]http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=420375[/link]
Live long and prosper.
Prashna
RE: Caste system
a ; as in ball ---and--- A ; as in father
I may be right off track here, and quite prepared to eat my words or take refuge here:
[sm=hidesbehindsofa.gif]
but what about what I believe is known as a 'flat a' as in cat? That is how I want to pronounce your name if I say it aloud.
Holistic
RE: Caste system
Thanks Prashna, Hibiscus is a beautiful flower and I have quite a few in the garden. However I also have hypericum[link= 
]
[/link]
which until just now I thought was "Rose of Sharon" - I've wiki'd it and they are both candidates!
I wish it was summer and they were flowering now.
Sharon
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: Holistic
a ; as in ball ---and--- A ; as in father
I may be right off track here, and quite prepared to eat my words or take refuge here:[sm=hidesbehindsofa.gif]
but what about what I believe is known as a 'flat a' as in cat? That is how I want to pronounce your name if I say it aloud.
Holistic
Hi Holistic,
No problem.
You do what you want, but you would be mispronouncing it. No matter, I am used to such mispronunciation from English speaking persons. That's why I was absolutely amazed when I first met William Radice and still am.
Off the cuff, I can think of four major sounds forthe vowel 'a':
a as in ball, call, mall, fall, and many others. In ITRANS that would be written as 'a'
a as infather,after, mast, fastand many others. In ITRANS that would be written as 'A'
a as in fate, rate, mate, crate, and many others. In ITRANS that would be written as 'e'
a as in fat, rat, mat, cat and many others. In ITRANS that would be difficult to write and can only be hinted at as a complex combination.
All 4 are easy to write and differentiate in Sanskrit and Bengali and other Sanskrit derived languages, like Hindi. There are different characters for each. The first three are easy to show in their basic form. Just see the top row first (snake) and the secong (mango) and the second row last box in the top table )for vowels) in this site:
[link= http://www.blss.portsmouth.sch.uk/hsc/bealphpic.shtml ]http://www.blss.portsmouth.sch.uk/hsc/bealphpic.shtml[/link]
The last one as in cat etc, I have not been able to find after extensive search, probably because these are all Bangladeshi sites and they do not speak the language properly.
The Bengali symbol for this would consist of this symbol ~ turned through a right angle and then followed by this symbol | . Very rare is that sound in Sanskrit, but not non-existent. An example is the name "ahalyA". That last complex vowel formed by the "yA" is near but still not exactly the same as the 'a' in cat.
So in Bengali and in Sanskrit it would be a complex vowel joined by sandhi.
Hope that helps.
Prashna
PS: Slightly clearer rendition of the alphabet here [link= http://www.ukindia.com/zip/zben05.htm ]http://www.ukindia.com/zip/zben05.htm[/link]
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: Prashna
Off the cuff, I can think of four major sounds forthe vowel 'a':a as in ball, call, mall, fall, and many others. In ITRANS that would be written as 'a'
a as infather,after, mast, fastand many others. In ITRANS that would be written as 'A'
a as in fate, rate, mate, crate, and many others. In ITRANS that would be written as 'e'
a as in fat, rat, mat, cat and many others. In ITRANS that would be difficult to write and can only be hinted at as a complex combination.
Now this depends on your english pronunciation. Some people would put these ones together...
a as infather,after, mast, fastand many others. In ITRANS that would be written as 'A'
But I would pronounce them differently as I would say father as "farther" whereas after, mast and fast i would not pronounce as "arfter", "marst" and "farst" (phew I'm gladI spelt that last one correctly :D) as that would be very plum in mouth posh speaking, which I don't do.
Love and Reiki Hugs
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: Energylz
1. Now this depends on your english pronunciation. Some people would put these ones together...
a as infather,after, mast, fastand many others. In ITRANS that would be written as 'A'
2. But I would pronounce them differently as I would say father as "farther" whereas after, mast and fast i would not pronounce as "arfter", "marst" and "farst" (phew I'm gladI spelt that last one correctly :D) as that would be very plum in mouth posh speaking, which I don't do.
Love and Reiki Hugs
1. Of course, it would. And since, I cannot call any of the regional variations my own, I try to go by what I understand as the Oxford English.
You have just proved my point as to how non-phonetic English is. But to be fair, Sanskrit derived languages including Bengali suffer from the same problem. My own is a very standard Kolkata Bengali, very close but quite distinct from Sanskrit. I cannot understand when Sylheti's (most Bangladeshi Restaurant staff) speak even moderately fast in their version of Bengali.
2. Agreed.
And I am aware of the affected posh sounds of 'a' as in 'ar'. That kind of deliberate distortion isa travesty ofthe richest language ever devised by man.
May I try to distinguish between these as far as I am able. You can tell me if I am on the right track.
Mast and fast :- very, very short a indeed.
After :- a little slower a, maybe by only 30 ms.
Father :- slower still, perhaps elongated still by another 30 ms. Almost like a Texan drawl.
But Rather would be like the a in cat, would it not? Only slightly elongated!
Regards.
Prashna
RE: Caste system
Just butting in here to say that all my Indian friends call me 'Sunanda' without the final 'a' being long. I myself say 'Sunanda' and so did my teacher when she bestowed the name on me. No one has ever before pronounced it SunandA.
Love
Sunanda xxxx
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: sunanda
Just butting in here to say that all my Indian friends call me 'Sunanda' without the final 'a' being long. I myself say 'Sunanda' ...
Love
Sunanda xxxx
Dear Sunanda,
No butting in, at all!
I was in error and it was your duty to point it out. I am grateful to you that you have.
It IS a proper noun and therefore normal rules of grammar does not apply. It does not have to be meaningful, though all Hindu names that I am aware of has been so far.
Beingthe first person, you have every right to spell it and pronounce it, in any way you prefer. And every right to expect me to respect that wish, which I shall.
Please accept my apologies if I have offended you by my attempts to spell it in the most accurate and grammatically correct way known to me.
Live long and prosper.[sm=nature-smiley-008.gif]
Prashna
RE: Caste system
ORIGINAL: Prashna
May I try to distinguish between these as far as I am able. You can tell me if I am on the right track.Mast and fast :- very, very short a indeed.
After :- a little slower a, maybe by only 30 ms.
Father :- slower still, perhaps elongated still by another 30 ms. Almost like a Texan drawl.
But Rather would be like the a in cat, would it not? Only slightly elongated!
Regards.
Prashna
For me, Mast, Fast and After would all be a short "a" (perhaps, as you say, a little longer with the "a" in After because it's at the start of the word and we tend to elongate just slightly to ensure the start of words are clarified.
Father and Rather would be pronounced (or at least I would) the same as in "Farther" and "Rarther".
When we are children learning the alphabet, at primary school we are generally taught all the lowercase letters first (a-z) and everything we write is in lowercase. The sounds we learn for each of these letters is very short:
a = ah
b = buh
c = kuh
d = duh
e = eh
f = fuh
g = guh
etc.
Then when we move onto uppercase letters we learn new sounds...
A = ay
B = bee
C = see
D = dee
E = eee
F = ef
G = gee
Things then obviously then become different based on local dialect when the letters are put together to make words and we have to learn how one letter can effect the sound of another. e.g. father is pronounced fuh-ar-thu-ruh (all strung together) so the "a" has changed from being an "ah" to an "ar" which is neither the sound of lower or uppercase as previously learnt.
Love and Reiki Hugs