Hiya...I just read this, thought it may interest some of you xxx
[url]But did Jesus build a chapel beneath Glastonbury Abbey[/url]
Ooh, synchronicity! I was just reading the link, Amy, with Radio 4 on in the background and suddenly I heard the words 'And did those Feet' so tuned in my ears and apparently they're going to be talking about this on World at One in 20 minutes time. How's that for coincidence? I'd better listen.
Aw...I've only just checked back to see this, I've probably missed it:(
synchronicity indeed!!!!
xxx
I just read the article and it's silly. Let's look at it from a different point of view. It serves the church of 600 CE purpose to put out a myth that Jesus came to Britain 600 years previously. A myth propagated for conversion of the masses. Of course Mediterranean countries traded with Britain at that time, but that's no evidence that a man called Jesus came here for his spiritual development.
RP
Amy, you can probably listen to it again on iplayer but frankly, I wouldn't bother. 'Professor' Gordon Strachan was totally boring, unconvincing and frankly wrong. He said, for example, that Jesus came to learn from the Druids who had been here for thousands of years. Wrong! They arrived here from Europe round about the same time as Jesus birth. I'd never previously heard that they were known for their wisdom as such and they certainly weren't involved in the building of Stonehenge. Prof Strachan (who should go back to managing his football team IMHO) said something like 'of course Jesus could have visited Britain, it was part of the Roman Empire, the Romans got here'. But the Romans didn't conquer Britain till 43AD. I'm certainly not anti the idea that Jesus visited Britain, Glastonbury especially, but this is just a revival of an old legend and the good Professor is talking through his fundament!
Sunanda, I know your history is superb (and certainly better than mine, who only did Asian and Colonial history in Singapore,) but I asked Ian, my hubby (and checked on the internet) when the Romans came to Britain and he said 55BC, when Julius Ceasar invaded us. Then they came again in 54 BC, left us in peace for nearly a hundred years and finally invaded again and settled here, as you said in AD 43.
I have to say that I find it easier to believe that Jesus might have gone to India with his trader uncle Joseph of Arimathea than these shores. However, years ago a copy of The Drama of the Lost Disciples, by George F. Jowett came into my hands and it was fascinating. I wrote about it here and Venetian replied that he had very similar information from Did the Apostle Paul Visit Britain? by R.W. 1860. Considering that my book was published in 1961, I’m guessing one plagiarized the other
You can read the beginning and end of Rev Morgan’s book here:
THE BRITISH CHURCH
THE ORIGIN OF BRITISH CHRISTIANITY
BY REV. R.W. MORGAN 1860
I also found this list (and it is not exhaustive) of some of the books on this subject:
1. The Coming of The Saints, by Taylor
2. St. Joseph of Arimathea at Glastonbury, by Lewis, from Artisan Sales
3. The Origin and Early History of Christianity in Britain, by Andrew Gray; from Artisan Sales
4. Did the Apostle Paul Visit Britain?, by R.W. Morgan, from Dolores Press 1860
5. Did Our Lord Visit Britain, by Rev. C. C. Dobson; from Covenant People
6. The Drama of the Lost Disciples, by George F. Jowett,; from Artisan Sales 1961
7. The Painted Savages of Britain (a myth spread by the Romans)
8. George of Lydda
9. The coming of the saints and Our neglected heritage: Celt, Druid and Culdee
Here’s the bit about the Druids:
The book states that Joseph of Arimathea was the Apostle of Britain. In about AD 36, five hundred and sixty-two years before St Augustine set foot on English soil." Joseph came with twelve companions and became known as the Apostle to Britain.”
It seems that much of this history was concealed when the Roman Church came into being three hundred years later. Christianity, or "The Way" as it was known then, was very quickly accepted by the Druids whose "religious beliefs and customs set them markedly apart from all other faiths. The Druids were descended from the ancient Hebrews and were expecting a Messiah and quickly embraced Christianity. Their faith was diametrically opposed to all other religion of that time. They believed in One Invisible God, and the coming of the Messiah. They had no graven images, abhorring the sight of idols. They always worshipped in the open, facing the east. They had a passionate belief in the immortality of life, to such an extent that both friend and foe claimed this belief made them fearless warriors, disdainful of death.
The religious ritual that appeared to make the greatest impression on the foreign historians was their custom of carrying a replica of the Ark of the Covenant before them in all religious observances, as did their forefathers in old Judea.
The motto of the Druids was "The Truth against the World". …."extraordinary as it may seem, the actual name of Jesus was familiar to them long before the advent of the Christ."
These Druids quickly accepted "The Way" when Joseph of Arimathea arrived in AD 36. I found this fascinating – I knew nothing about all this before.
There is more info on these links below, but I have to say that most internet links I found tonight (I haven’t half wasted time!) were fairly amateurish in gaudy colours, which rather makes me wonder whether they have all been made by the same person. Call me cynical but…
And then we get Wiki which seems to blow the whole thing out of the water. Sorry folks to have wasted all that time for you!
Love and peace,
Judy
but I asked Ian, my hubby (and checked on the internet) when the Romans came to Britain and he said 55BC, when Julius Ceasar invaded us. Then they came again in 54 BC, left us in peace for nearly a hundred years and finally invaded again and settled here, as you said in AD 43.
I did know that, Judy, but my point was that we were not a part of the Roman Empire until after the death of Christ. Certainly even if he did come to England it wasn't during the Roman occupation.
The Druids were descended from the ancient Hebrews and were expecting a Messiah and quickly embraced Christianity. Their faith was diametrically opposed to all other religion of that time. They believed in One Invisible God, and the coming of the Messiah. They had no graven images, abhorring the sight of idols. They always worshipped in the open, facing the east. They had a passionate belief in the immortality of life, to such an extent that both friend and foe claimed this belief made them fearless warriors, disdainful of death.
I would take exception to this. I don't think any of this is proven fact. I do believe (and note that I say believe) from my own studies that the Druids believed in reincarnation, which could also have made them disdainful of death and I agree that they worshipped in the open.
The religious ritual that appeared to make the greatest impression on the foreign historians was their custom of carrying a replica of the Ark of the Covenant before them in all religious observances, as did their forefathers in old Judea.
I have never heard this before.
The motto of the Druids was "The Truth against the World". …."extraordinary as it may seem, the actual name of Jesus was familiar to them long before the advent of the Christ."
Nor this.
There's an awful lot of tosh out there in cyberspace, you know!
xxx
...for example, that Jesus came to learn from the Druids who had been here for thousands of years. Wrong! They arrived here from Europe round about the same time as Jesus birth. I'd never previously heard that they were known for their wisdom as such and they certainly weren't involved in the building of Stonehenge.
One of the possible derivations of the word 'druid' is from the early Welsh word 'dryw' (pronounced 'drew') meaning 'seer'. The druids had a very important centre of activity on Anglesey. All of Britain spoke a form of old Welsh, or Brythonic, at the time of the Roman occupation and Brythonic society very probably looked to shamans (or dryws) for guidance in their daily lives.
It's important to remember that druids weren't the men in bed sheets that we imagine them to have been today, that was largely a Victorian invention. I'd never heard before that they turned up in Britain at the same time as the Romans.
I've read of druid involvement in the construction of Stonehenge, and the first stone stages were made up of blue stones from west Wales. It is very likely that those stories came from an oral tradition that described the construction being overseen by the dryws, or seers of neolithic society. Organising the transportation of those first stones from the Preseli Hills all the way to Salisbury Plain, across many tribal territories, would have required an amazing feat of logistics.
As for the connection between druids and Glastonbury, the name Avalon (nowadays synonymous with Glastonbury) derives from the Welsh word for apple which is 'afal' (pronounced aval) as it was referred to as the 'Isle of Apples' by the ancient British, and Avalon is said to have associations with neolithic worship of the Earth Mother.
If Jesus learned from the dryws, then it could be argued it was the Welsh he was learning from :). Personally I find it hard to believe that he did visit Britain, but it is a nice story.
Hi Barafundle
I think I worded my post badly: I know the Druids were a class of seers, separate from the tribespeople whom they served as priests, shamen and during the Roman invasion as military leaders also. What I meant is that I didn't think that they had 'universities' or repositories of learning at which foreigners (which is what the young Jesus would have been) would have gone to study. I know of their connection to Anglesey (thus, now I think of it, if Jesus had come to Britain to learn from them, would he not have gone there rather than to Glastonbury?) But I would absolutely refute, from all I've learned and read during the past 25 years that the Druids had anything to do with the building of Stonehenge. I simply don't believe they were here then. They arrived later and it's very probable that they used it as a place of worship. They didn't build it though. All in my VHO of course!
This is from the Wikipedia entry on 'Druid':
There is no evidence of druids predating the 2nd century BCE.
xxx
In the personal chronology of the appearing of the Christ in its ascending scale, we have first Eve, then Abraham, Jacob, Moses, the Kingdoms of Juda and Isreal and the Prophets, then Christ Jesus. With Christ Jesus came the full, ferfect and sufficient sacrifice, as Paul expressed it; the demonstration of the Christ, Truth, not as a person at all, but as pure spirituality without any fleshly sense. This was seen as the ascension.
ISRAEL FINDS SHELTER IN BRITAIN
Then the Christ was dimly seen in the form of the Christian doctrine and as the early Christians and the spread of Christianity.
In the spread of Christianity it is important to notice that history shows how the British Isles proved themselves veriable Isles of refuge for Christianity. According to tradition, and tradition is sometimes correct, Christianity was introduced into England by Joseph of Arimathea a few years after the resurrection. Those to whom it was introduced were among the very lost sheep that Jesus referred to in his statement,"I am not send but unto the lost sheep ot the house of Isreal" The soil must be right or there can be no fruition, and Isreal was the soil.
What is Isreal? What does Isreal mean? You remember the twelve sons or decendants of Jacob,- that which wrestled and prevailed over evil,- appeared finally as the twelve tribes. They eventually formed themselves into two kingdoms , the tribe of Judah with part of the tribe of Benjamin becoming the Kingdom of Judah, and the other tribes forming themselves into the Kingdom of Isreal. Judah was the royal line but from Isreal Shiloh was to come. Shiloh means pure, spiritual sense. " The Sceptre shal not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be"
Isreal was to be known by " a new name" and the descendants were to be gathered in the "ISLES" of the Seas, there to be protected and nurtered until the fullness of time.
From this Isreal was to appear under the still newer name America, the United States of America, that which was to stand forth as Ephraim, the younger, the branch that ran "over the wall"
Not a nation in the ordinary acceptance of the word, but a mighty spiritual force that was to show forth to mankind, the "LIGTH, which ligtheth every man that cometh into the world" That spiritual force was to be known as Christian Science, under whose banner would gather a " multitude of nations.
When Jacob struggled with the angel he was alone, and he brought into that struggle over fear and anxiety all that he knew of Truth, and multiplied. "Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Isreal; for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed" This is the Isreal that grew and finnaly appeared as the British race, no longer Isaacsons or sons of Isaac, but Sxons, the Anglo-Saxon race.
Do not forget, however, that all this that we are talking about is simply the unfoldment of Mind, and while appearing as persons, it really never is persons, but always mind, for the only race is Mind, no matter what appearance.
Studies of Hebert W Eustace,CBS. Regards Meta
Sorry, Meta, but I think this post is totally off topic.
Sorry, Meta, but I think this post is totally off topic.
Don't be sorry, if you right. he he he
Meta
I know of their connection to Anglesey (thus, now I think of it, if Jesus had come to Britain to learn from them, would he not have gone there rather than to Glastonbury?)
That's a good point.
What little we know of the druids has comes to us from Roman accounts as the Celts themselves didn't keep a written history of their culture, so the fact that there is no record of the druids before the 2nd century BC isn't so surprising. It doesn't mean that they were around though, but I'm sure there must have been some sort of equivalent.
A friend of mine is an historian and she once told me that the 'real' history of Britain starts with the Romans, and everything before that is archaeology. The further back we go the more we're operating in the realm of speculation.
It does seem unlikely that the people who had the idea of erecting the first phase of the Stonehenge monument had very much in common with the druids that were around 3000 years later. The story of Jesus visiting Glastonbury belongs in the category of folk tale I think, but I do like folk tales.
Hiya...I just read this, thought it may interest some of you xxx
[url]But did Jesus build a chapel beneath Glastonbury Abbey[/url]
what else am I going to hear in my life? Why would God need to be taught by humans?
what else am I going to hear in my life? Why would God need to be taught by humans?
Well, if you create something, I suppose you need to teach it also?
I have recently read two fascinating books that shed a very different light on ancient history, and religion including the druids. Uriel 's Machine and The Hiram key . If you have an open mind then they are worth a read.
Well, if you create something, I suppose you need to teach it also?
God created us, therefore God has to teach us.We didn't create him. What we created is a stupid religion that takes advantage of him and ruins everyone's life. That is all we created. Not him.