Just listened to it quickly. I generally agree with what is said... would like to listen to it again, but not sure I'll get time before it's removed, as I've got to head out.
If only they did a transcription of it. 😮
They have, they have - just found it! 😎
[url]A matter of time*/*Christian Science Sentinel[/url]
Thanks for that Judy, I've been able to digest it a little more now. :003:
I kind of know what he's saying, but I think some things are missed when I compare it to my own understanding.
I would say that time can be objective or subjective depending on the context it's used in. I would also say that they only seem to be talking about the passage of time (and how it's measured) especially with reference to us being in a 4D space time. I prefer to look at it as a 5D space time, with our usual 3 dimensional space and 2 dimensions for time; one of which is the passage of time, and the other being the points of time within that (every moment of Now!) of which only one exists at any one time of course. 😀
I find where he says this:
You don't find time turning into eternity, because the sum of all finite things doesn't make the infinite, any more than the sum of mistakes makes a correct answer.
a flawed logic (maybe a mistake on his part?).
He uses the example of the sum of mistakes not making a correct answer, but that's clearly obvious as they are opposite, yet the sum of correct answers would make a correct answer. Likewise the sum of Now, are the measurement of the passage of time (the 5th dimension being the parts of the 4th), but they rely on the other dimensions to be able to do the summing.. i.e. the measurement of passage of time requires the material world. That therefore doesn't mean that some divine realm (if such a place exists) is without time because it has no material, as it does, in my understanding, exist always with the point in time that is Now. I guess that would equate to saying that such a realm would not exist in the past or the future, but exists for the present moment only; so to exist in such a realm would be to be free of the past and have no concerns for the future... a place of complete awareness of what IS.
The fact that the Now point of time has no size (or zero size) because it is not a passage of time, ties in with the understanding that zero and infinity are intrinsically linked, so the point of time that is Now, is the existence of infinite time. It also tells us that the measurement of time is what is linked to the material world as the material is needed to make measurements, yet everything in the material world exists only in the now that there is.
I agree with him when he says that you cannot have measurement without consciousness, because measurement is a concept of consciousness and how consciousness relates to the material, or becomes attached to it at one point and follows it to another point. By freeing ourselves of such attachments, we find ourselves without the need to measure and being more present in the point of time that is Now. So when he agrees that "Time disappears", I see that he is saying the measurement of time is disappearing, not the present moment; and I think that's important because the time that is Now is often forgotten about when talking about time, yet is so easily discarded along with it when talking about places where no time exists or is not relevant. The Now is the one dimension of time that will always exist and does not need to be measured or exist along with material.
I see the interview was back in 2002. It would be interesting to see how his ideas have moved on (if at all) since then and since quantum theories have progresses so much since then.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Hi Giles
I perceive the Now and now moment of time as to separate and distinct things, although we can perceive the now moment of time in relation to when things are happening or have happened in relation to the clock passage of time, I perceive our Now life experience as one life experience, not a collection of separate life experiences. 😉
I perceive the Now and now moment of time as to separate and distinct things, although we can perceive the now moment of time in relation to when things are happening or have happened in relation to the clock passage of time, I perceive our Now life experience as one life experience, not a collection of separate life experiences. 😉
I know this was to Giles, but just wanted to say that I'm guessing that your view is roughly what Doyle meant Paul. A mortal measurement of time (even of now0 is not the same as the eternal and infinite Now! 😉
Judy
Hi Giles - sorry I've not come back sooner, but ran out of "mortal limitations' (time!) 😮
Obviously, I cannot speak for Doyle, especially as I know nufink whatsoever about physics but I'll have a go where it makes sense to me![
I would say that time can be objective or subjective depending on the context it's used in.
I know that Doyle is fond of explaining that time is not in the watch - does that help? (he also says that the maths is not in the chalk on the blackboard)
I would also say that they only seem to be talking about the passage of time (and how it's measured) especially with reference to us being in a 4D space time. I prefer to look at it as a 5D space time, with our usual 3 dimensional space and 2 dimensions for time; one of which is the passage of time, and the other being the points of time within that (every moment of Now!) of which only one exists at any one time of course. 😀
Now you've really lost me Giles! 😮 Actually, the original article [url]SCIENTISTS OF REALITY*/*The Christian Science Journal[/url]
that I opened this thread with some years ago is now online. It's an interview with two physicists (who are also Christian Scientists)
Doyle and Carico have coauthored a paper soon to be published in the refereed Open Astronomy Journal. Their paper reexamines the fundamental nature of time and shows how history might be changeable yes, you heard that right. Paper title: "Quantum Uncertainty Considerations for Gravitational Lens Interferometry."
That sounds up your street Giles! :p Yeesh. :rolleyes:
Now is this is the sort of thing you mean by the dimensions?
JEFFREY HILDNER: Laurance, David, what is time?
DAVID CARICO: If you had to pick a quick scientific definition of time, according to physicists, that is, the one I generally offer my students is, it's another dimension to the universe. We have forward and backward, right, left, and up and downthose are the three dimensions of space. Of course, there's fourth dimension that is forward and backward: timefuture and past. When you make that connection, time becomes just one more dimension. So space and time are really inseparable, and that's why physicists generally talk about space-time as one word, one concept. Whatever it is, it's the same thing
Can't say I really understand him either! But I'm really glad you agree with most of it!
I see the interview was back in 2002. It would be interesting to see how his ideas have moved on (if at all) since then and since quantum theories have progresses so much since then.
Again, I can't answer for him, but I am guessing that most of his ideas on metaphysics have come from CS, not quantum theory. This is a "timeless" healing he had as a youngster and when you've had experiences like that, you obviously discern reality in a totally different way.
LAURANCE DOYLE:
... I used to practice sport judo when I was in high school, and I was at Cal-Poly at San Luis Obispo at a tournament. During one of the matches, my opponent got kind of carried away and grabbed my pointer finger on my right hand and twisted it back. My judo instructor, who is from Japan and also known to be kind of a medical expert, said it was broken, and I should go have it X-rayed and set. So my folks took me to the emergency room. I hadn't really been to an emergency room before, and a lot of people came in with hurts and different things going on, and it didn't take long before I was praying for them instead of for myself. I'd done some prayer for myself. I know my mom was praying to know that my perfection was present. But I started to pray for other people. I was praying to kind of dispel the fear. It seemed like massive fear in the emergency room. So about 45 minutes late it was my turn, and I went in to see the X-ray person. And he X-rayed my finger, and he said, "The bone is healing nicely, and you should not use the emergency room for a checkup." The next week I was playing judo.
So you could say, "Well, the bone really wasn't broken." But the fact is that the X-ray technician said it had been broken and that it had set nicely. That's an example that shows me how time is not a part of Christian Science healing.
[url]TIME MASTERS*/*Christian Science Sentinel[/url]
I often think of the time my dog was attacked by another dog and there was a large hole under his ear, on his neck. I told the dog that it had never happened, that he'd always been in a state of perfection (that sounds daft I know, but in the higher consciousness I think of as Reality, nothing discordant can take place and matter isn't real, but simply thought objectified). The next day I couldn't tell which ear the hole had been under. I searched everywhere, but flesh and hair was all filled in and had it not been for the blood-stained cotton wool in the bin, I would have started to think I dreamed it all! 😉
Judy