What if I have no chains from which to be set free?
Well you have arrived then!
Well done to you - assuming you are being honest/authentic here? 😉
Hi Amy
This video is about providing guidelines for those who wish to integrate their own
values/morals into walking the talk, i.e. not a judgemental tight walk as you see it.
Just allowing ourselves to be is not addressing the issue of becoming authentic. We can be all sorts of things i.e. not necessarily authentic.
I see where we are missing each other, you perceive that applying moral judgements to self makes us authentic to the moral judgement, now I perceive that as being authentic to an ideal, which is a completely different thing from being authentic to self, we can become all sorts of things, but we can only be ourselves if we are going to be authentic to self. 🙂
All aspect of self? I would suggest that authenticity addresses the important aspects of self (i.e. our values/morals). For example, we may value being healthy yet stray and consume junk food - that would be an aspect of self but hardly one that is spiritually important.
Yes, if we choose to become authentic to an ideal, then that is true, but to be authentic to self then outside of judgemental division there are no important or less important aspects of self, there is only the fullness of self which encompasses everything that we are.
Oh dear - do you not see a difference between thinking we're authentic and actually being authentic? We can be whatever we want to be in our heads but the fruits of such images (or delusions) are borne out by the quality of our interactions with others.
Unfortunately I understand only to well what being authentic to self is and it has nothing to do with the roles that we perform within our life experience, nor has it to do with the way that we perceive or portray ourselves to others, it is all about complete self acceptance in an open and non-judgemental way, where we do not try to be anything for we are happy to just be whatever we are and do whatever is required in any given situation.
As Crowan mentioned, using judgement is not the same as being judgemental.
Discernment and judgement do not have to be laden with a value judgement.
Unless we wish to follow the video, then we will need to apply judgements to self which will lead to us becoming judgemental!
Rejecting? Repressing? The video is about integration of beliefs/values. Why would anyone not want to be in harmony with this through their actions? The video is about bringing awareness to where there may be a gap/inconsistency between the two. If this is seen as a problem then something is amiss somewhere and needs reevaluating, e.g. either reappraising a belief system or looking at the conflict. Of course this is for those who are interested in becoming authentic.
The video talks about us having to do the right thing! which requires a personal judgement, it talks about committing ourselves to fighting any temptation to compromise our values and beliefs, these so called temptations come from within the fullness of self to challenge the inner judgements that we have chosen to place within self so that we can once more become whole and authentic to self.
Self judgement doesn't reject self (as I see it). It looks at aspects of self that may benefit from being improved on i.e. to bring about more flow/harmony/fullness of self.
What do you do with the aspects of self that you choose to judge as being wrong in relation to your ideals, that you perceive to be wrong, inadequate, dark, evil, false, immoral etc?
Humans are complex creatures. I see that we all have moral and immoral aspects.
We choose which morals are dominant in our lives. Being authentic is just about walking the talk, not believing one thing and doing another - simple. Integration.
Are you saying that to have morals is a negative thing? Again, using judgement differs from being judgemental.
Are you saying you are free of morals? What are your beliefs/values?
No I perceive human beings as nothing more or less than a human being, I do not live my life experience within the constraints of moral judgements, I am free to choose how I wish to be in any given situation, I stopped being judgemental and chose to embrace a non-judgemental approach to self, others and life a long time ago.
Build a persona or ego? Do you not see that we already have an ego? This is how we commonly know ourselves, i.e. our identity with the world. Authenticity goes beyond ego since it integrates our wholeness.
Yes we have an ego a self image, but we can also create alter egos surrounding our judgements of self righteousness, self pride, as well as the reverse judgements of inadequacy, unworthiness etc, these take away our inner wholeness and replace it with inner division.
This video answers the call to integrating thought and behaviour...thoughts we already have, i.e wanting to become authentic means we are on that road anyway.
Not really, wanting to be anything is our way of telling self that we are not what we would choose to be, we do not need to tell ourselves that we are authentic when we are authentic, that would be like telling ourselves that we are a human being!
Self acceptance is fine, important and has its place. Does replacing their conflicts necessarily ensure that they will live authentically - by which I mean that their conduct mirrors their beliefs and values?
Now we get to the nitty gritty, if someone is in expression of inner harmony and wholeness because they have replaced their judgemental conflicts with self acceptance, then they are whatever they are, their conduct will be whatever they are when in full expression of the fullness of self, they will be fully authentic without a rule book, their life experience will reflect that authenticity, not by what they do and say, but because of what they are. 🙂
Hopefully you will go some way to understanding my position here too. Your last sentence is somewhat patronising and implies I am not authentic. Oh, if you only knew me!!!!
No I was not attempting to be patronising I was seeking clarity, which you have provided, it appears that the main differences are that you perceive authenticity to be something that surrounds moral judgements and I perceive authenticity as something that is totally about being who we are, to someone who is authentic moral judgements are redundant. 🙂
Yes, I was at work, and yes my employer does know what I do in my own lunchtime (and no I cannot watch videos), helping moderate a forum, giving up my own time to help keep HP a friendly place for people to discuss things, and removing spam. Certainly no intention of drumming up Reiki business etc. from it, as there are far better ways to advertise than posting on forums. Honestly giving up my time to help HP admin and HP members (a lot of which isn't seen by members as it goes on behind the scenes - you'd be surprised how much spam has to be dealt with).
I doubt that I would be surprised about how much time you give up to HP, and HP members. Just going by initial impressions, you put a heck of a lot of effort into it, as a matter of fact, I admire the time and effort you put into it. Personally, I don't like to see anyone volunteering their time for no financial reward. But, if someone wants to volunteer, genuinely on their own time, then it's is their choice....:):rolleyes:
I had presumed that you were dipping in and out of the forum whilst at work. It does seem (as I just said) that you are on here, submitting lengthy posts at all times of day. But, if your employer is in agreement with, in effect funding HP as a business (the forums generate traffic to the site, right?) ..... then that's all fine and dandy, isn't it 🙂
I'm not advising you to do anything. You said you were prepared for being defensive, but I cannot see how that would benefit you, especially if you're busy working, so just commenting as a friend that there's no need for you to feel that way.
I don't judge being defensive as a bad thing. In fact, I see the benefits to it (In fact, I could write an essay about it - but I don't to squander all of my resources on a public forum) :).
I appreciate your friendly comments. But as I say, I'm okay with being defensive, I'm not judging the defensiveness, or the feelings 🙂
As you are aware the moderators of this form which are scarce these days apart from Giles and myself who are members who value what Mike created on the forums and volunteer their time and effort in the hope of keeping the forums running in an orderly fashion, we also stop the never ending stream of spamming that members do not see most of the time and step in when a discussion or member becomes disruptive to the boards or start attacking each other.
Giles is in not on the boards very much because he is at work and tends to nip on during his lunch break to do any moderating or respond to any posts that he chooses to, he also comes on in his own time when he is free to do so to help out and post outside of work.
By speaking on behalf of Giles, aren't you dis-empowering Giles, Paul?
Yes we remind people that there are forum rules that members agree to abide by as they join the forums when they are stepping over the line
Paul, is this a divisional line that places "we" the moderators on one side and percived "other" on the opposite side of that line?
or a member is reported to the moderators and yes if they feel that they cannot abide by them any more, then they can leave or become banned either by the moderators or the forum admin who pop in from time to time, but we do not just ban members for no reason at all and we usually give them adequate warning or put them on moderation for a time before that happens, so that they have a little time to consider if they wish to continue with their membership of Healthy Pages or not.
Right, I see.
I personally perceive that your latest posts to Giles and other members are coming very close to overstepping the mark concerning the forum rules, I am sure that this was not your intention and as you say the rules do not enforce themselves, but a part of our moderation role on these forums is to enforce them when the need arises, please keep that in mind when you post in the future.
Would you mind clarifying for me, Paul how your placing a judgment of 'right' and 'wrong' behavior onto my posts, doesn't conflict with what you usually say about placing judgment onto "others".
Hi WildStrawbery
I did not think that Giles would be back on the forum before the evening, so I posted the post to remind you that moderators are voluntary, as you will have noticed I posted as a member who is a moderator as a reminder that we all have to abide by the forum rules, if I would have posted as a moderator I would have made it clear that I was posting as a moderator. 🙂
As for the posts, there are guidelines for all members to follow, it was Mike who devised and outlined them, not the moderators who's job is to implement them to help keep the forums running in as smooth and friendly manner as possible, they are self explanatory and easy to follow which makes them easy for moderators to assess member's posts by them.
If you have not read them for a while then I would suggest that you read through them again and contemplate how you would assess people posts in relation to them LINK. 😉