Hi Amy
Unfortunately to have a talk that revolves around a judgement of rightness and wrongness that requires us to walk that judgemental tight walk between the judgements of what we perceive to be right or wrong within the fullness of self, it sets one aspect of self up to be right, in opposition to another aspect of self, which is judged to be wrong, it is the judgement itself that sets up the inner conflict within self.Do you not think it would be a lot better not to have a judgemental talk in the first place and just allow ourselves to be?
This video is about providing guidelines for those who wish to integrate their own
values/morals into walking the talk, i.e. not a judgemental tight walk as you see it.
Just allowing ourselves to be is not addressing the issue of becoming authentic. We can be all sorts of things i.e. not necessarily authentic.
That is my point, the subject is supposed to be about authenticity within self, that requires us to include all aspects of self, not just the bits that we judge to be good and reject or repress the bits that we judge to be bad, we are all complete within the fullness of self, we need to embrace every aspect of self if we wish to be authentic, otherwise we are creating divisional conflicts within self. 🙂All aspect of self? I would suggest that authenticity addresses the important aspects of self (i.e. our values/morals). For example, we may value being healthy yet stray and consume junk food - that would be an aspect of self but hardly one that is spiritually important.
That is because people are choosing to employ judgements in place of authenticity, if we have no judgements to live up to or put ourselves down with, then we are what we are which is being authentic. 😉
Oh dear - do you not see a difference between thinking we're authentic and actually being authentic? We can be whatever we want to be in our heads but the fruits of such images (or delusions) are borne out by the quality of our interactions with others.
Yes we all have inner discernment and guidance, but that is not the same as a judgement, though if we choose to discern something through a judgement, then the discernment will only reflect what the judgement creates for us.
As Crowan mentioned, using judgement is not the same as being judgemental.
Discernment and judgement do not have to be laden with a value judgement.The essential message surrounds a judgement of right over wrong which is the theme of most spiritual development practices, it says that if we embrace the aspects of self that we judge to be right and reject the aspect of self that we judge to be wrong then we will gain stature and pride, personal development does not work on right or wrong it works on embracing the fullness of self non-judgmentally.
Please explain to me how accepting one aspect of self whilst rejecting and repressing another aspect of self can create wholeness and authenticity?
Rejecting? Repressing? The video is about integration of beliefs/values. Why would anyone not want to be in harmony with this through their actions? The video is about bringing awareness to where there may be a gap/inconsistency between the two. If this is seen as a problem then something is amiss somewhere and needs reevaluating, e.g. either reappraising a belief system or looking at the conflict. Of course this is for those who are interested in becoming authentic.
Again, please explain to me how we can integrate the fullness of self by rejecting self through self judgement?
Self judgement doesn't reject self (as I see it). It looks at aspects of self that may benefit from being improved on i.e. to bring about more flow/harmony/fullness of self.
To perceive self as moral or immoral requires us to place a divisional judgement within the fullness of self, this will only create inner division between the aspects of self that we judge to be moral or immoral, please explain how this would make us authentic or whole?
Humans are complex creatures. I see that we all have moral and immoral aspects.
We choose which morals are dominant in our lives. Being authentic is just about walking the talk, not believing one thing and doing another - simple. Integration.
Are you saying that to have morals is a negative thing? Again, using judgement differs from being judgemental.
Are you saying you are free of morals? What are your beliefs/values?To set about creating an outward image of truthfulness requires us to build a persona or ego based upon that perceived judgement of truth, this unfortunately is not being authentic because it is not portraying the full picture of everything that is within the fullness of self, outside of the judgement of truth which varies from person to person, we have what is.
Build a persona or ego? Do you not see that we already have an ego? This is how we commonly know ourselves, i.e. our identity with the world. Authenticity goes beyond ego since it integrates our wholeness.
But that is my point, how will anyone who chooses to embrace this divisional judgemental approach and apply it within the fullness of self, become authentic?
Divisional judgemental approach is your perception of the video - I don't see it at all
But non the less they are not the same thing, we achieve inner peace and harmony when we are happy with the fullness of self, we achieve pride when we judge that we have done something in an acceptable manner.
That is because a judgement will alway create a division between one thing and anther thing and division leads to conflict, this video addresses the judgement of rightness and being true to that judgement in opposition to what someone Judges to be a falseness and so rejects.
This video answers the call to integrating thought and behaviour...thoughts we already have, i.e wanting to become authentic means we are on that road anyway.
This is not being authentic towards self, it is being judgemental towards self, we deal with people's self imposed judgemental divisional conflicts all of the time, not by judging them to be right or wrong, but by replacing them with self acceptance in an open and non-judgemental way, we heal people by replacing their divisional judgemental conflicts with wholeness, so that they can be authentic.
Self acceptance is fine, important and has its place. Does replacing their conflicts necessarily ensure that they will live authentically - by which I mean that their conduct mirrors their beliefs and values?
Hopefully when you answer my questions, then you will have a better understanding of the word authentic in relation to self. 🙂
Hopefully you will go some way to understanding my position here too. Your last sentence is somewhat patronising and implies I am not authentic. Oh, if you only knew me!!!!
I see it like that, Giles because of the numerous times that the words, or words to the effect of "How rude!" have preceded someone being banned from the website. Tap your fingers at the HP rule book if you like, but bear in - rules don't implement themselves. You made the choice to be a moderator on here and you're sticking with it.
I can't recall how many people have been banned for being rude, but it's not many. Most people are banned for spamming, or being downright offensive and abusive (as determined by the moderating team and/or the site administrators, not just a sole moderator)
No that's right, Giles. I didn't watch it - I'm working, for myself, being responsible and paying my own way; also enjoying the freedom and creativity that it affords me.
Are you at work today, Giles? Is your employer paying for you to watch video's, moderate an internet forum, drum up passing trade for your Reiki business etc, and give honest critiques? ;):D Would you class that as being honest and living with integrity?
Yes, I was at work, and yes my employer does know what I do in my own lunchtime (and no I cannot watch videos), helping moderate a forum, giving up my own time to help keep HP a friendly place for people to discuss things, and removing spam. Certainly no intention of drumming up Reiki business etc. from it, as there are far better ways to advertise than posting on forums. Honestly giving up my time to help HP admin and HP members (a lot of which isn't seen by members as it goes on behind the scenes - you'd be surprised how much spam has to be dealt with).
You're advising me to live in the way that you live aren't you. If I wanted to use you as a role model, I would :);).
I'm not advising you to do anything. You said you were prepared for being defensive, but I cannot see how that would benefit you, especially if you're busy working, so just commenting as a friend that there's no need for you to feel that way.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Hi WildStrawberry
As you are aware the moderators of this form which are scarce these days apart from Giles and myself who are members who value what Mike created on the forums and volunteer their time and effort in the hope of keeping the forums running in an orderly fashion, we also stop the never ending stream of spamming that members do not see most of the time and step in when a discussion or member becomes disruptive to the boards or start attacking each other.
Giles is in not on the boards very much because he is at work and tends to nip on during his lunch break to do any moderating or respond to any posts that he chooses to, he also comes on in his own time when he is free to do so to help out and post outside of work.
Yes we remind people that there are forum rules that members agree to abide by as they join the forums when they are stepping over the line or a member is reported to the moderators and yes if they feel that they cannot abide by them any more, then they can leave or become banned either by the moderators or the forum admin who pop in from time to time, but we do not just ban members for no reason at all and we usually give them adequate warning or put them on moderation for a time before that happens, so that they have a little time to consider if they wish to continue with their membership of Healthy Pages or not.
I personally perceive that your latest posts to Giles and other members are coming very close to overstepping the mark concerning the forum rules, I am sure that this was not your intention and as you say the rules do not enforce themselves, but a part of our moderation role on these forums is to enforce them when the need arises, please keep that in mind when you post in the future.
I personally perceive that your latest posts to Giles and other members are coming very close to overstepping the mark concerning the forum rules.
In what way is this not a judgement?:confused:
Paul correctly (and more clearly) highlights the points I was talking about.
When I talk of the ego in the video it's the points where it tells you that by doing such and such we will become more "heroic" or a "person of quality".
The term heroic was mentioned in the context of having the courage of following your conscience (not following the crowd) - it will make you heroic. What's wrong with that? Likewise becoming a "person of quality" is in regard with respect. Do you find fault with this too?
Is ego a dirty word to you? Being ego centred is (imo). Ego is how we commonly perceive ourselves in the world/our ID if you will. Hence becoming authentic necessarily will address aspects of our ego where it falls short of becoming whole/integrated with our spirituality.
The truth is that a person does not need to be heroic or a person of quality to be living
truthfully or with integrity or to be authentic. If one takes the messages as they are presented, then they are going to seek to do those things because it is telling them that they will become a better person (in whatever respect)... but better than what? As Paul correctly points out, such a "better" judgement creates division, and hence duality, and when duality exists, so does conflict. The same video could have been produced without the need to tell people that by doing X, Y and Z they will become heroic, or a person of quality (and whatever else it said - I can't access the video at the minute)). Why didn't it say to do those things, because it's the truthful and honest thing to do and is for the benefit of everyone and everything? Why limit it to just putting the focus on the individual and the benefit's they would perceive?You seem to think the video is imposing external values. It is taking the qualities that most of us have (to varying degrees) e.g. respect, honesty, courage and joining up the dots to bring about awareness of practising what we preach.
So, as I was saying in my response, it's all fine and good giving a message to tell people they should act with integrity, or to be truthful, or to be kind to all others etc., but when that gets tied in with the message of "do this because you will better yourself" then this is tapping into the ego of the person, and the ego stems from the mind, which is not the true non-judgemental self.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
The video is about walking the talk, i.e. for those who strive (i.e. may already want) to become authentic. This is "tapping into" becoming whole. Tapping into ego would be "oh yes of course I believe this" and not carrying it out in our behaviour. Do you see?