powerful energies

hi mac

welcome to hp... actually i've only been having fun on this site for a short while but have found it really enjoyable to engage in discussion with others here and hope you find the same.

just thought i'd pick up on your post and maybe develop this thread a bit.

i guess all of us who seek truth and seek to heal are potentially dealing with powerful energies are we not? and i, for one, believe there are very similar patterns to coming to knowledge in all traditions and none.

and this is primarily because we release great stores of karmic energy when we unpick the fabric of self that is held together by beliefs of who we are.

the truth may be "terrible" but it is also "divine" and clad with the armour of right intention (in mahayana budhism this is the intention to gain enlightenment for the benefit of all beings) all demons that appear on the path will be transformed with courage and love.

so what do you think is so dangerous about chasing the smoke that rises from the pyre of self immolation? is love dangerous?

love and peace

norbu

No smoke without fire...

Hi Norbu,

I suspect you know a lot more about this than you are letting on.

Fire is a great thing. You can warm yourself by it, and cook on it. But if you are not careful, you can burn yourself.

Although we might talk about energy as black or white, it's really just energy. And energy can be good for you, or bad for you.

If you can't handle it, it could harm you.

Another analogy is alcohol. Must people can manage two or three glasses of wine, but some cannot.

And even love as you cunningly shift the argument can be problematic. There are unbalanced individuals who can't handle love.

What I'm saying simply is this. Be careful with powerful forces. They are not to be dabbled with lightly.

All the best,

Mac

Hi Mac, (and welcome to HP)

What I'm saying simply is this. Be careful with powerful forces. They are not to be dabbled with lightly.

Indeed, but you can also apply this logic to everything in life.

You either have to experience it yourself and learn from your mistakes or you have to take someone elses word for it what is the right thing to do. If you take someone elses word for it then you are just happy to be controlled by others and not willing to try out new things for yourself (bit boring IMHO).

Yes, I agree, don't jump in there without looking, but also don't just take it for read that others know best.

Love and Reiki Hugs

Hi Energylz,

I don't think we're really disagreeing.

Yes, being carefull applies to all sorts of things - like driving a car. And I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't learn to drive.

I think it's more that I see shamanism sometimes being presented like it's a harmless hobby. And as you point out, that presentation is someone else's take on it, and it might not be right. For you.

And we also agree about avoiding boredom.

All the best,

Mac

I turn most of them down because they are either not ready yet, or they are not strong enough.

hi mac

some iteresting ideas coming out of this string... that's good!

so, back to the point: what do you think are the characteristics a "would be" apprentice shaman should have? and how would you suggest they best go about cultivating these characteristics?

peace and love

norbu

Hi Norbu,

I'm not going to go through all the characteristics - just the ones to do with my point about being able to handle the darkness.

He or she should be robust, mentally. And have good intentions. Having the ability to differentiate between the real and the imagined is also essential. By that, I mean telling the difference between visions, and imagined sequences driven by the individual's own volition.

As to developing these characteristics, that's the wouldbe's problem. If you present yourself without these characteristics, you're not suitable. If you want to get suitable, that's up to you.

Now, Norbu, I know you like arguing. And so do I. But that's my answer, and I'm not going to be drawn into a more detailed discussion.

Hope you are well.

Mac

hi mac

thanks for your clear reply.

just to say that i feel there is a difference between a lively discussion and an argument and as a rule, i'd argue that a livlely discussion can be passionate and and clear but an agument may loose the clarity and therefore is best avoided.

peace and love

norbu

Interesting, if small, debate... I'd like to add that respect for the forces and energies involved is something all spiritual practitioners, including shamans, should be aware of.

I've seen it often - I mention respect when talking about tarot or ouijya board (sorry - can never spell it!) or shamanic journeys and get a blank - wot? from people who have never learnt respect of others or of themselves.

As MacKenzie says - mental robustness, clear good intentions and awareness of illusion and truth and the differences are all important to walk a shamanic and spiritual path. I 'fell' into shamanic practices 14 years ago... it's only now that I feel I am strong enough to delve beneath the surface offered.

I have long noted that shamanic information/conversations tend to veer toward the academic or surface (personal practice being something...personal...) perhaps a little more setting out of the personal work involved beforehand would be useful to those drawn to this path.

Blessings
Moonfeather

I totally agree with Moonfeather and Mac.
I teach and help others to walk their own spiritual path, whilst continuing with my own. I find that my 'students' become my teachers too. It is a fascinating journey with its highs and its lows.

But too many come into this with romantic notions: a fluffy bunny spirituality with angels around the doorway and beautiful roses......but roses have thorns and so does the spiritual path.....I've seen many fall into the pits that this pathway comprises of, myself included, and it takes a lot of mental and emotional strength to navigate around, or through, these pitfalls.

As with anything, you have the honeymoon period, and then the real work begins; this is when many step back and try something else, but those who have the courage to continue and to start looking at their fears, burdens, attachments, illusions etc. etc. will start to walk an amazing path filled with mystery and magic ,as well as those pitfalls, but these lessen and lessen and the magic grows and grows.
Do be aware that this is a journey though and a never ending one. As is said in the 'Legend of Bagger Vance' film.....It is a game to played, not won, as we all try to find our place on the field."

I know a lot of people want to become apprentice shamans. But I feel I should give a word of caution.

A lot of people ask me to take them on as an apprentice, and I turn most of them down because they are either not ready yet, or they are not strong enough.

There is a feeling over here that shamanism is something you can dabble in without any trouble. In Siberia where I did my own apprenticeship, most people don't actually WANT to become shamans. It's a calling - but a potentially dangerous one.

If you do it right, you are dealing with powerful energies.

So please, think carefully before you chase the smoke.

Mac

i will second that mac....what with the upsurge in 'mushroom tourism' s.america in particular seems full of mercinary shamans who will teach you anything if the price is right....regardless of the personal outcome..i'd advise anyone seeking to check out their potential teacher throughly and steer clear of anything that dos'nt feel right.