I'm curious as to what makes certain persons constantly argumentative, even over the smallest trivial things. I used to know someone like that and in a way it saddened me, thinking that a person is like that all the time. I severed all contact with the said person since it was driving me crazy. Thanks for any ideas.
RE: Argumentative people
Some people use aggressive behaviour thinking they are beingassertive. It could show a lack of self confidence or self worth, it could be conditioning in the way they have been brought up - some people do not even realise they are perceived as aggressive. There is a good poem-Desiderata- which states "avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit...." Good adviceI think.
[link= http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/desiderata.html ]http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/desiderata.html[/link]
I am sure this has been posted before, but thought I'd get a link anyway since I've mentioned it [sm=hippy.gif]
RE: Argumentative people
I've noticed this habit; I think it's very close to what I call objecting'.Their minds arecalling out 'I object' toeverything they hear, see orthink about! I notice I can be in this state myself when I'm feeling anxious or unhappy about something. I believe whoever's arguing/objecting is basically feeling very disconnected from their body and stuck in an uncomfortablemental/emotional layer where 'nothing's right'; and they're angry about it, feeling powerless, and blaming 'the world'. I think people are very unaware of their own bodies at the time. They're obviously not feeling happy! My mother has this tendency when she's anxious. It used to make me automatically respond with something very similar - usually annoyance/irritation - and I've had to teach myself not to 'join in' by following that urge! Arguers want to win and be bolstered up;they feel separate and vulnerable. I think the best and most useful response is a silentinner blessing, sending them love and acceptance. That takes some practice but it's great to do and can have some stunning results! It's unusual for arguers to experience a space wherethere's absolutely nothing fighting back.'Being the change'- staying calm and body-aware yourself - seems to act as a sort of mirror. They may just start to feel relief andstop arguing...But the reason to do it is to feel o.k yourself and not suffer! (I've learned to do this from having had chronic fatigue and realising I couldn't afford to lose any energy from unnecessary stress.)
This strategy thas worked very well with my Mum when she's being argumentative and objecting to any helpful suggestions. I immediately stop joining in and just stay calm. I think it's contributed toher realising getting anxious isn't really helpful! She told me not so long ago she's decided not to get anxious about things any more, it's not worth it!
Like you, if I knew someone who argued all the time, I'd have little or nothing to do with them, by choice. But I'd try to keep in mind it's their behaviour I don't like, not them. Because that allows for them to change, and keeps the lines of communication potentially open.
RE: Argumentative people
This is one of the reasons I've finally had enough of my 30 year marriage.
When I met my husband he came across as an easy-going, out-ward person, but I soon discovered that he didn't have any friends and because of his loud argumentative behaviour - I lost the ones I had. He used this behaviour to his best advantage in his work, where the pushiest got on the furthest. He made a lot of enemies being like that, but if he got on, that was all that mattered.
I am yet to comprehend, though, as solas says, that this is due to lack of self confidence, but perhaps after 30 years, that's the problem. These people brain wash you into thinking they ARE better than you, because they're LOUDER!
RE: Argumentative people
I went through the same thing about 10 years ago with a childhood friend. We hadn't seen each other in 15 years or so, and during that time I had grown and done a lot of work on myself, while she had not. Needless to say, she still carried a lot of anger around in her life, and I discovered that she would use arguing politics or other important subjects as a way to vent and let off steam from all of her unresolved, pent-up emotions.
I noticed it when the two of us went on vacation in San Francisco once. We shared a hotel room. One night out of the blue she asked me what my thoughts were about predestination, so I told her. She then jumped all over my opinion, trying to argue with it, but the thing is, when she repeated back to me what I believed, she had it all wrong. I corrected her and again explained what I believed. But she still repeated it back to me incorrectly and again tried to pick it apart in order to control my opinions. It was awful. I kept thinking to myself, "My goodness, I'm being attacked by someone I thought was my friend." I got up and fixed myself a drink from the mini-bar, and as I was doing so, my hands were shaking. She responded, "Well, you don't see ME getting all upset now, do you?! No, I'm sitting here very calm, aren't I!" It was unreal. That made about as much sense as some man beating up his wife, leaving her lying there with bruises and broken bones and then saying, "Well, you don't see ME getting all upset now, do you?!" *rollseyes*
I remember thinking afterwards, "What just happened here?!" And after thinking it through for a bit, I realized that she had baited me. Once I responded to her arguing, it became "our" problem, not hers. That way, she never had to take responsibility for her issues. If she could engage another person, then it either became the other person's problem or a shared problem. Either way, it took the focus off of her and her unresolved issues.
She even made the comment that "most people aren't able to get to these deep levels." In her mind, true friends reached deep levels through being able to argue with each other. To her, friendships and relationships didn't feel like love or caring unless there was conflict of some sort. I had worked through my issues in previous years, so I had no need to engage in conflict in order to feel love or connection in my life. But for her, it wasn't caring or love unless there was some type of abusive feeling to it, because that's what her childhood was all about. Her dad was an alcoholic and both of her parents abused her yet called it "love." She truly couldn't tell the difference between healthy relating and abuse.
The next day when we were leaving San Francisco, something came on the radio about Michael Jackson and the molestation charges, and she tried to engage me again in a rant about him. But this time I knew what she was doing and refrained from even discussing it with her. I didn't take the bait, and interestingly enough, that upset her even more. It's as though people like her are always looking for sparring partners in life, and if you choose not to play, they get really upset. But that's their choice. My choice was to not have anything more to do with her as long as she continued to try to take her problems out on me.
Anyway, like you and your situation, once my friend verbally abused me and I realized she had serious unresolved emotional issues in her life, I ended our friendship. People like that are just not healthy to be around. It's sad because when she wasn't like that, she was such a fun, creative, and interesting person to be with. But I think her childhood problems just caught up with her and began to overwhelm her to where they started interfering with every aspect of her life. She had so much anger and rage built up within her that she found it difficult to proceed in life without allowing her emotions to affect others. I have no idea how she's doing these days, but I hope for her sake she got help and worked through her unresolved childhood issues.
People should be allowed to disc
RE: Argumentative people
Thank you for the link to the poem, Solas, I've bookmarked it. 🙂
Back to the person I referred to in my OP I think it used to drive her crazy that I would not engage her in her arguments.
I agree that it's probably a self-confidence issue as well as 'objecting.' This person also had a problem with alcohol which probably did not help her any.
Thank you everyone for your responses.
RE: Argumentative people
ORIGINAL: Startingtoheal
Thank you for the link to the poem, Solas, I've bookmarked it. 🙂
Back to the person I referred to in my OP I think it used to drive her crazy that I would not engage her in her arguments.
I agree that it's probably a self-confidence issue as well as 'objecting.' This person also had a problem with alcohol which probably did not help her any.
Thank you everyone for your responses.
You're welcome, Startingtoheal.
I think you're right to refuse to engage in your friend's arguments. That's what I had to do with both people I mentioned above. And like your friend, the man who lied to me had a hard time letting go. He constantly objected to the truth and tried to fight with me in a desperate attempt to win. It was kind of sad, because by doing so, he appeared so desperate and out-of-control.
People who lie are also considered argumentative, because lying is merely a power play used by people who have no self-esteem -- people who are extremely frightened and powerless. They feel that lying to those they admire somehow makes them superior. They try to cover up their inadequacies and powerlessness by wearing a mask and pretending to be something they are not, because deep down they are afraid that the person they really are won't be accepted. What's sad is that the opposite is true ... most of us like the person underneath the mask much better. It's their deceitful behavior we don't like. And in this man's case, I never cared for any of the masks that he wore, but I always liked the person he was underneath. That was the real treasure.
In any event, good for you for refusing to engage in your friend's arguments. That's the best route to take. It's what I have had to do many times in the past, and like I said, just recently with this man who lies. I know it drove him crazy when I refused to accept his lies, but to do so would have been like agreeing the earth was flat when I knew full well it was round -- and even had proof that it was round! He didn't want to lose me but he also refused to tell the truth, and as long as he refused to be truthful, I had no choice but to let him go and move on. And like I said, I'll certainly miss him, but I can't say the same for his lies or the masks that he wore. 😉
I think is born from frustration. To purposely argue all the time it seems they may think nobody listens to them
RE: Argumentative people
This is one of the reasons I've finally had enough of my 30 year marriage.
When I met my husband he came across as an easy-going, out-ward person, but I soon discovered that he didn't have any friends and because of his loud argumentative behaviour - I lost the ones I had. He used this behaviour to his best advantage in his work, where the pushiest got on the furthest. He made a lot of enemies being like that, but if he got on, that was all that mattered.
I am yet to comprehend, though, as solas says, that this is due to lack of self confidence, but perhaps after 30 years, that's the problem. These people brain wash you into thinking they ARE better than you, because they're LOUDER!
Hi
When split with my first wife knew it was the best. I was not angry with myself annoyed really that I had not done it sooner. I was annoyed for about a month but then I got to know people again.
When I left it behind WOW liberty.
RE: Argumentative people
You're welcome, Startingtoheal.
I think you're right to refuse to engage in your friend's arguments. That's what I had to do with both people I mentioned above. And like your friend, the man who lied to me had a hard time letting go. He constantly objected to the truth and tried to fight with me in a desperate attempt to win. It was kind of sad, because by doing so, he appeared so desperate and out-of-control.
People who lie are also considered argumentative, because lying is merely a power play used by people who have no self-esteem -- people who are extremely frightened and powerless. They feel that lying to those they admire somehow makes them superior. They try to cover up their inadequacies and powerlessness by wearing a mask and pretending to be something they are not, because deep down they are afraid that the person they really are won't be accepted. What's sad is that the opposite is true ... most of us like the person underneath the mask much better. It's their deceitful behavior we don't like. And in this man's case, I never cared for any of the masks that he wore, but I always liked the person he was underneath. That was the real treasure.
In any event, good for you for refusing to engage in your friend's arguments. That's the best route to take. It's what I have had to do many times in the past, and like I said, just recently with this man who lies. I know it drove him crazy when I refused to accept his lies, but to do so would have been like agreeing the earth was flat when I knew full well it was round -- and even had proof that it was round! He didn't want to lose me but he also refused to tell the truth, and as long as he refused to be truthful, I had no choice but to let him go and move on. And like I said, I'll certainly miss him, but I can't say the same for his lies or the masks that he wore. 😉
Possibly frustration.Maybe they are not being listened to or so they think by people closest to them.
Possibly sibling rivelry.
I think theres a difference between arguing with people and purposesly talking over someone.
I think the later is a need for empowering themselves for reasons known to them selves.I am no expert but body language like pointing in your face is pointless in my younger days unless they touch you close up pointing is just keeping you at arms lengh.
Both to me seem a waste of life.I think now and then life bites us on the bum and says I am short live me to the max.
Since this thread has re-started, I'll join in.
'Argumentative' is a value-judgement. It is perfectly possible for one person to think they are having a good discussion and for another to think they are being argumentative. Some people seem scared of disagreement and will see 'row' where another sees 'interesting talk'.
Since this thread has re-started, I'll join in.
'Argumentative' is a value-judgement. It is perfectly possible for one person to think they are having a good discussion and for another to think they are being argumentative. Some people seem scared of disagreement and will see 'row' where another sees 'interesting talk'.
Sometimes because they feel threatened in some way by the other viewpoint. it does take confidence to enjoy a 'robust discussion' sometimes.
I'm curious as to what makes certain persons constantly argumentative, even over the smallest trivial things. I used to know someone like that and in a way it saddened me, thinking that a person is like that all the time. I severed all contact with the said person since it was driving me crazy. Thanks for any ideas.
I think that would depend on what you mean by argumentative. I remember as a child being told 'don't argue', when in actual fact, I wasn't arguing at all, I was just curious and the kind of person that likes to explore to understand in greater depth.
What made it seem argumentative is that teachers/parents wanted to be able to say 'this is this' and have me accept that is so, without understanding why.
However, I think sometimes when people seem argumentative about petty things, it is that they really want to express a deeper feeling but can't. This is common in the break down of relationships, when couples start to argue about a tea stain not being wiped up quick enough, or a pair of socks not being put away - when what they might really want to say is that they miss the romance and respect that they used to have.
RE: Argumentative people
This is one of the reasons I've finally had enough of my 30 year marriage.
When I met my husband he came across as an easy-going, out-ward person, but I soon discovered that he didn't have any friends and because of his loud argumentative behaviour - I lost the ones I had. He used this behaviour to his best advantage in his work, where the pushiest got on the furthest. He made a lot of enemies being like that, but if he got on, that was all that mattered.
I am yet to comprehend, though, as solas says, that this is due to lack of self confidence, but perhaps after 30 years, that's the problem. These people brain wash you into thinking they ARE better than you, because they're LOUDER!
Hi. I can only speak for myself and I am not any authority on relationships. It took me 47years before I knew I had met the one , so my wife tells me..I think to leave or to break apart is not the behaviour of lack of self confidence.
Are people telling you when they split up my self confidence was the worse thing.
I would guess that it comes from the prior marriage.
To speak, use emotional threat or use intimidation to overpower anothers will is a act of cowardice.
You can take back power from brainwashers by not listening.I think they may at first shout louder than before when this happens its a the last desperate throws of bully to regain control.
If this seems too much trouble some get a bigger people to brainwash them.by making sure they are made to listen in which ever way seems to work.