two level fusion due 25th june

Fusion

Hi Clare

I have had a fusion of L4-S1 in April 2011, I am sure you have seen some of my posts. Unfortunately there don't seem to be many people who know about this operation on here and I rarely got to speak to someone who knew what it was like. So whilst I am not a good example I will try and answer your questions. I had had a previous microdiscectomy but was still surprised at how much more pain I was in, but then it is a much bigger op and takes about four hours. My consultant is new school so I didn't get a back brace or catheter and he wanted me up ASAP. Expect that first time to be hard going and don't panic if you can't wee. I tried several times and it was a few hours before I could go. It is where your nerves have been jangled. I also didn't get a morphine pump and had to ask for oramorph when required along with my tramadol and paracetamol. I wish I had pushed to have one though and I would advise you to check this, as unfortunately on a busy ward requests are sometimes forgotten and this caused me to be in more pain than I should. I had my surgery on a Friday and was discharged on Sunday, I should have asked to stay in longer as it was far too soon. Because of how weak and unsteady I was I fell down the stairs on the Tuesday and was black and blue for a few weeks, but because it happened at home the ward when I phoned to see if I could have done more damage weren't interested. So don't rush home you need to take your time. I thought because I was able to get to the toilet on my own I could manage at home and I definitely couldn't. I had someone with me full time for the first two weeks and probably could have done with a bit longer.

You also asked about sitting, which I found very uncomfortable especially on hard chairs. You will be given advice about how long you should sit or stand for, but I remember there was no bending, lifting or twisting for a long time. After 4-6 weeks you should start physio, although you will be sent home from hospital with some exercises for the initial few weeks. You will be unable to shower or bathe until your dressing is removed, mine came off at day 12, should have been 10 but needed an extra couple of days. This means strip washing with lots of assistance. Also because you cannot bend you can't wash your hair over the sink/bath so I would advise getting some dry shampoo and some funky head scarves, as if you are like me by 12days post op your hair will look and feel disgusting 🙂

I hope I have helped a bit but feel free to ask if you have anymore questions. Also please remember that not everyone ends up like me, I know two people who have had the same surgery and completely recovered. You know how it is on these sites, if you are better you don't need to find advice, hence you get a bad view of these procedures. I would still have had my surgery as it was my only option and would do it again tomorrow if there was a chance I would improve.

Anyway, best of luck for the 25th, take care

Wend x

hi wend
thank's for replying i know after having the two discectomies all you want to do is get back to normal and you can't and i know it's gonna be a whole different matter this time round.

there is one thing puzzling me they said my op is gonna take 8-12 hours and ill be kept in for 10 days? i will be speaking to my surgeon so ill have him explain this to me.

as for coming home social care was round yesterday they are putting extra rail on stairs and stair lift, whilst i was in hospital i had some tests done so maybe that's why the op will take longer cos looking at mri my l5/s1 has fragmented so i suppose it will take longer to work round them, also im having falls at moment.

i think my surgeon did explain few things to me but the pain i was in they kind of went over my head.

he did say i won't be able to return to work for at least 3-4 months but also i heard him say maybe not at all again not sure why? iv'e got a feeling it's due to lasting nerve damage in my leg the pain will go but maybe my stumbbles may not.

thanks clare xxx

. I also didn't get a morphine pump and had to ask for oramorph when required along with my tramadol and paracetamol. I wish I had pushed to have one though and I would advise you to check this, as unfortunately on a busy ward requests are sometimes forgotten and this caused me to be in more pain than I should.

With my pharmacist head on can I say Morphine PCA (Patent controlled analgesia) is very commonly used these day. And it is used because of the problems Wendy raised that on a busy word with the best will in the world the nurses may take longer to get the drugs to you than is good.

It is quite safe, and to anyone reading this who is worried about Morphine being addictive don't be. The doses used are low, and PCA is only used for about 24 /48 hours.If it is offered ...accept it

hi
im currently on morphine oxycodone i was in hospital for two weeks my morphine intake is every three hours whilst in there i have to say that each time i buzzed they were very prompt, but i know i will be using the pump for 24 hours after surgery then orally ill be on the same ward and im sure they won't let me go too long without it, iv'e already spoken to pain management about being weaned off afterwards with help from gp, just looking forward to getting my life back without even taking a paracetamol lol xxx thank you clare x

Hi Clare

I was told it can take up to a year to recover fully, but realistically how I was at six months was probably going to be the final outcome. Please don't worry about becoming addicted to morphine, I take 20mls of oramorph every 4 hours and my Pain Consultant is more than happy. She said there is a huge difference between using a drug for pain relief and being addicted. So whilst I would have to titrate off slowly if I wanted to stop that doesn't mean I am addicted. I only take the drug because of pain, not because I enjoy the sensation and that apparently is the difference.

I also think the reason your doctor said you might not return to work is that nerve damage is unpredictable and whilst they can remove disc material from pressing on it they cannot tell if it will repair. Also you can unfortunately have some damage caused by the surgery, as was the case for me. I was 42 when I had my surgery and it has been hard to accept my limitations since surgery. That is not to say I am miserable all the time, far from it. I work hard at keeping my spirits up so to speak. I have three children at university so they can always cheer me up. My husband has recently become my full time carer which is such a relief and helps me immensely and if all else fails music always helps. I am led here listening to the scissors sisters as we speak, doing a bit of bed dancing 🙂

Anyway keeping positive helps, but somewhere at the back of your mind just know that it might not be quite as successful as you wanted. Unfortunately I hadn't found this site before my surgeries and thought I would be cured so got a nasty shock. I think if I had been warned there was a chance I could be left either with some difficulties or perhaps even worse I would have been mentally prepared. I hope you have a good support group of family and friends as they definitely help.

Good luck again,

Wend x

hi wend

like i said im taking 20mls of oxycodone every three hours, i was on tramadol and other bits before my two discectomies i know once my two discs are removed my back pain and nerve pain will go ive had tests to prove that my back pain is also coming from discs so fusion will solve them problems it's just at the moment im having falls due to nerve being so compressed it's just whether ill get my feeling back to be honest with you ill just be glad of pain being gone if it's the case of alway's needing aids to help me walk ill live with that even though im only 38, ive asked my new surgeon about artificial disc replacement he said in my case it would not work because my problem is motion movement bones rubbing out that's why i re-herniated only day's after first discectomy then re-herniated days after second, i'll probably be on pregablin forever depending on what happens, im not to concerned about being weaned off oxycodone as pain team and gp are great support so when i feel ready ill be very determined also diazepam is helping but im not keen with side effect, also i take 50mg amitriptyline, i take diazapam 3 times a day and doc told me to take one with amitriptyline at night that does help me sleep but sometimes the only downfall is waking in horredous pain because ive not took oxycodone during the night.

sorry for going on your the first person on here who has had two level fusion, what levels was yours and how resricted are you with movement?

lot's of love clare xxxx

sorry wend just seen your level really sorry hope you don't think im rude about xxxxx

Hi Clare

Don't worry I didn't think you were being rude 🙂

With regard to movement I cannot bend forwards very well. For example I cannot wash up as that slight bend to reach into the bowl is agony. I still cannot put socks or shoes on and worse still hubby has to cut my toe nails yuck. I cannot twist at all due to the sciatic shooting pain this causes. However I can lean backwards for example to wash my hair under the shower. For me personally I didn't wake up feeling like I was restricted around my lower back, but that maybe because I had been protecting that area for so long I saw no difference. The hardest things for me are sitting, standing and walking. I can sit for about 3-5 minutes before having to move due to pain, so eating dinner is always a race. Obviously there are times I have to sit for longer ie car journeys to hospital appts, for these I dose up on morphine, use cushions and a wheelchair when I get there. Afterwards I can be totally bedbound for upto two weeks, which is why I choose to go out so rarely.

I also had tests done before surgery and the consultant was positive it would fix me. He still says it has, in that my ruptured discs have been fused and unfortunately nerve damage cannot be foreseen.

I am now being investigated for problems with my discs both above and below and I am hopeful they can find some reason for my continued pain. If not i am on the waiting list for an assessment for a spinal cord stimulator which have a 50% success rate.

So even if you are left with nerve damage there are still solutions so don't panic. You have more chance of success than not according to the figures. I will be hoping and praying you get a good outcome as who wants to be stuck indoors every day.

Take care,

Love Wend xxx

hi wend thanks for reply it's lovely to hear finally someone who has undergone fusion,

so what tests are yo having done now can you still have mri with the metal work that you have had done?

im trying to be optimistic but if i do have lasting nerve damage it's something im preparing myself for at the moment iv'e already spoken to my place of work iv'e not said that i may never return iv'e just tried to explain i won't be back till at least october im sure by then ill have a good idea of what's happening,

im getting a temporary wheelchair because i really need to get out of house like you said ill dose up on my morphine before i make any trips out as you know sitting is very painful,

i think your a very brave lady and certainly a great help to me at the moment

love clare xxx and also i understand we need to put smile on our faces for family xxxx

Hi Clare, yes my GP is arranging for another MRI (2nd since fusion) don't know how long the wait will be as was discharged from orthopaedics in October. I hope I don't have to have another CT Myelogram but don't mind the tests done under X-ray so much, at least with those you get to see on screen where they have injected into your back. Sorry cant remember what all the tests I've had done are called as most were a while ago and morphine plays havoc with my memory.

Your employer sounds great, mine refused to wait to see if recovered after fusion. It was only the same hospital where I had my treatment and had worked for ten years. I hope you don't ever have problems but if you do give me a shout and I will try and advise you what you need to do to ensure you get the best possible outcome.

Also when you called me lady you made me laugh as it makes me sound so old 🙂 and whilst I might now act like an old person and need afternoon naps I still feel the same as I did 20 years ago. I keep telling myself 44 isn't old but know I thought it was when I was in my twenties.

Anyway take care,

Love Wend xxx

hi wend just wondering if it's the discs above now causing you the trouble since you've had the l4/5 l5/s1 removed maybe l3/4 has started to rear it's ugly head i presume they took xrays and your fusion is aligned ok?

ha you made me laugh about morphine people keep telling me that im repeating myself all the time then i read on oxynorm leaflet and it did state short term memory loss, sorry for calling you lady your a young woman like myself we may feel 100 but we are not lol.

i had a few falls today and also inflammation has return in center back, when i say falls i mean 3 steps to left side im creating the new dance craze lol.

im seeing if i can get wheelchair tomorrow really miss going out my lovely friend is taking my little boy out he's two nearly three i also have two other sons 18 and 16 and daughter aged 11 . wend if you don't mind me asking my sick pay has now ran out i only worked part time would you know if im intitiled to any help, also if it's a case of permanent nerve damage and i do need to give up work would i get anything for support? sorry for asking personnel questions love clare xxxx

Hi Clare, I don't mind personal questions, so ask away. If your work sick pay has finished you are now entitled to claim ESA, which is the new name for statutory sick pay. Your work should have told you this. You need to ring your local job centre who will go through it with you. You receive this for a year after work sick pay finishes and then you either have to claim job seekers or if like me you are unfit to work at all you get put into the support group and get paid indefinitely. You get roughly £200 every two weeks. You also should apply for DLA or disability living allowance in long hand. There are two components to this mobility and care and depending on how much you can do and how much care you need depends on amount given. If you look on line, just type in DLA and look on the govs benefit pages and you will see all the info and amounts you can claim. You need to have been bad for six months and be expected to still be bad in three and I am sure your GP will have no problems saying this is true. We used an advice centre to help us fill in the forms for DLA as we were advised it was the best way of ensuring we got what we deserved. I now get higher rate care and mobility which is about £500 a month. Lastly if you have a partner that works don't forget to ring tax credits as you will be entitled to more 1) now you only get sick pay and 2) if you get middle or high rate mobility DLA you get a disability premium. Oops sorry that wasn't lastly also apply for a blue badge, mine is a godsend. I think that's it for benefits, but like you I worked part time so you definitely need to claim. I also think if you don't have an advice point that citizens advice will help with DLA forms. They helped me appeal ESA to get into support group and were fab. First step though look on line for more details as I am bound to have forgotten something.

I know how hard it is to lose your wages and think you aren't going to cope. I see on another post you have sorted your mortgage, we are now on interest only which was a huge relief.

Please let me know how you get on. Also there is a possibility there is a problem with L3/L4 but GP thinks more likely SI joint because of where pain is. I also have never been told if back has fused properly so hope to get that answered too.

Hope I have helped a bit.

Take care,

Love Wend xxx

Ps applying for benefits can be hard work but remember you are entitled to them!

hi wend

yes you have helped gonna look in to everything,

four weeks today till my op nervous and glad at the same time.

i really hope that they give you answers on what's happening with you and you don't have to wait to long, did you have to wear brace after fusion or have they stop doing that now whilst i was in hospital the other week the lady across from me had one level fusion and she left with no brace, but i was wondering is that because she only had 1 level done that was something i forgot to ask my surgeon.

take care wend clare xxxx

Hi Clare

I think whether you have a brace depends on your consultant. At my hospital the 'old school' surgeons sent their patients home with a brace and so called ' new school' don't use them. Mine didn't give me a brace and expected me up and moving ASAP, which as I had no catheter was two hours. Something to bear in mind don't panic if you can't pee immediately it took me a few attempts and is apparently normal. Freaked me out I can tell you and wish I had a catheter as some people do after a fusion as to keep having to go to toilet was very painful.

If you have any more questions please let me know.

Take care, love Wend x