I know many people claim they have had good results with chiropractors. I also know that there are some people who swear by them, but I think for large disc prolapses, a chiropractor's treatment can be very damaging and detrimental.
When I received my diagnosis, I was startled. I thought I had a strained muscle. Prolapsed disc? Uh oh.
I then phoned a chiropractor who had reportedly helped two people my parents knew, though I am not sure if they had slipped discs. Anyway, the chiro was encouraging. He told me that he will have me back to full health by March (I saw him in January for the first time). Before people say I should have seen a 'good' chiro, by all accounts this guy was 'good'. He is also very experienced. He always did the same thing. He gave me some gentle electrotherapy and then twisted my spine. I cannot say if it felt better or worse. I actually saw no improvement, but each time I came in he claimed I was doing much better, though I never felt my body getting looser or he core symptoms changing. He recommended a few exercises, most of which strained my back and caused more spasms so I stopped doing them. In fact, after I saw my NHS physio, I was told that I should hold off all exercises because the prolapse is massive and there is plenty of room for further damage. Anyway, each time I saw the chiropractor he mentioned that my recovery will be very slow and incredibly difficult. He asked me to come in three times per week and I was charged nearly £40 per session. I could not work because of my condition and spending this money from Jan to March was painful. Now I know there are people who have seen results but I believe chiros do not help. People who will recover naturally do not need this treatment. Sometimes it makes you feel positive or comfortable but your progress probably owes to other biological processes. There is no logic to how the chiropractic treatment works.
I mean, no one can push a disc back in. He chiros don't even have direct access.
I just think that these guys are like snake oil merchants. They keep robbing you off your money. If you recover naturally, they will take credit. If not, they will continue to offer you false hope. I feel that they are heartless and are keen to make money out of other people's misery. This gentleman kept saying things that made no sense. He obviously thought I was stupid. He kept saying my bones were misaligned even though my MRI report said that the vertebrae were in perfect alignment. Before he had the MRI report, the chiro said that my sacroiliac joint was pushing one of my vertebrae. When I gave him the scan results, he forgot about his original diagnosis. I think people should really be careful with chiros. There is no evidence that their treatment helps. I know a lot of people like to avoid surgery but clutching to straws or acting like a headless chicken will not get you results. These guys know that many people will not opt for surgery and will try these treatments and even if you stop at some point, they have made enough money out of you anyway. I think unless they can prove that their treatment helps, they should not be allowed to practice.
Was it a McTimony Chiropractor or other?
McTimony chiropractic is very gentle (whilst still being as effective) compared to other more "bone crunching" chiropractic techniques.
Perhaps best not to lump all chiropractors into the same basket as your own experience. 😉
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Perhaps best not to lump all chiropractors into the same basket as your own experience. 😉
Perhaps you should allow people to FULLY express their opinion in a friendly manner ;).
Hi,
I don't know what he practiced. He wasn't exactly violent. He just used some electrotherapy. Whenever he twisted my spine I felt a numbness in my right leg. He said I should not worry about that.
I think it is besides the point what technique they practice. There is no evidence that twisting and turning a person's spine will alleviate symptoms of a large central prolapsed disc. In the absence of conclusive evidence, there is no reason to advocate or recommend them. McTimothy or not. Where is the proof. A lot of chiropractic defenders give anecdotes but there is no evidence that they help and I feel there is a reason to lump them altogether. In he end, not one of these techniques can he proven and it is typical for supporters of chiropractors to say that they should have gone to someone who uses a different technique. In the end, like any other professional who understands the medical condition they are treating you expect them to act in your best interests and perform whatever technique they know will work to alleviate symptoms. If a large disc is pushing on a nerve, spinal manipulation will make that disc recede or lose contact with the nerve. This is especially true of large disc prolapse. Most people who claim results with chiros are people whose symptoms disappear in line with the usual timeframe in which natural healjng occurs. Again, I feel chiros need to conclusively prove they can help otherwise they will just go on ripping people off. I have no respect for them at all because I feel they make money out of other people's misery, knowing that they probably cannot help. With surgical techniques, studies have been done, and there is clear scientific rationales as to why a surgical treatment will work. For example, a disc is pushing a nerve.l, the disc is excised, so it no longer pushes on the nerve, and the symptoms gradually disappear. This is logical because the underlying cause is directly addressed. Sure surgery has its drawbacks, and a lot fail, but still, in principle there is good scientific reasoning behind it. With chiropractic it is often anecdotal stuff. For instance, "my sons nanny had back pain and she went to so-so and now she kickboxes every other day". Who knows if it was the chiro that helped. It can never be proven. I don't care what technique they use. Evidence please.
Hi,
Sorry for reposting but there were a few critical errors I have corrected. I find it hard to type on a virtual keyboard. Here is the post again.
I don't know what he practiced. He wasn't exactly violent. He just used some electrotherapy. Whenever he twisted my spine I felt a numbness in my right leg. He said I should not worry about that.
I think it is besides the point what technique they practice. There is no evidence that twisting and turning a person's spine will alleviate symptoms of a large central prolapsed disc. In the absence of conclusive evidence, there is no reason to advocate or recommend them. McTimothy or not. Where is the proof? A lot of chiropractic defenders give anecdotes but there is no evidence that they help and I feel there is a reason to lump them all together. In he end, not one of these techniques can he proven and it is typical for supporters of chiropractors to say that they should have gone to someone who uses a different technique. In the end, like any other professional who understands the medical condition they are treating you expect them to act in your best interests and perform whatever technique they know will work to alleviate symptoms. If a large disc is pushing on a nerve, spinal manipulation will not make that disc recede or lose contact with the nerve. This is especially true of large disc prolapse. Most people who claim results with chiros are people whose symptoms disappear in line with the usual timeframe in which natural healing occurs. Again, I feel chiros need to conclusively prove they can help otherwise they will just go on ripping people off. I have no respect for them at all because I feel they make money out of other people's misery, knowing that they probably cannot help. With surgical techniques, studies have been done, and there is clear scientific rationales as to why a surgical treatment will work. For example, a disc is pushing a nerve, the disc is excised, so it no longer pushes on the nerve, and the symptoms gradually disappear because the disc stops causing damage to the nerve. The nerve gets a chance to heal. This is logical because the underlying cause is directly addressed. Sure surgery has its drawbacks, and a lot fail, but still, in principle there is good scientific reasoning behind it. It is natural for people to jot want surgery. It is invasive, painful and risky, and that is why chiros thrive. Some people will try these therapies. It is completely voluntary so if they do not work, it is not like you can sue the chiro. Mine had lots of clients, so he wouldn't have missed me. They have people lining up. The evidence that they help isn't there. With chiropractic it is often anecdotal stuff. For instance, "my sons nanny had back pain and she went to so-so and now she kickboxes every other day". Who knows if it was the chiro that helped. It can never be proven. I don't care what technique they use. Evidence please.
Thank you Wild Strawberry. I think my point was that a) I did not improve when I visited a well regarded and experienced chiropractor, and b) there is little evidence it helps. I think the point is many people say they got better after seeing a chiropractor but it is not very easy to see how their treatment could have caused an improvement.
Thank you for permitting me to express these views without judgement.
What proof is it you're looking for? There are many people who have expressed great benefits for their condition from seeing a chiropractor. Yes you can say that's anecdotal, but are you looking for scientific proof with double blind testing etc.? If so, then you could say that most complementary therapies don't fit into such proofs, and along with that would could also say most of the orthodox treatments are also only 'proven' by limited tests, for which there have also been many reports of such treatements not working or even making conditions worse.
Don't get me wrong, I sympathise with you, but perhaps Chiropractic was not the best treatment for your particular condition (or you just had a crap chiropractor), and that's why I say that it's perhaps wrong to start labelling all chiropractors as being people who should not be able to practice. It would be like me saying that I had experienced a bad mechanic when taking my car to the garage, so no mechanics should be trusted to fix cars. Do you see what I mean? 🙂
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Perhaps you should allow people to FULLY express their opinion in a friendly manner ;).
I'm not sure what you're saying WS. Nobody is preventing anyone from fully expressing their opinion, or saying anythign in an unfriendly manner. We're just having a discusssion.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Thank you for permitting me to express these views without judgement.
🙂 You don't need my permission.....
I think my point was that a) I did not improve when I visited a well regarded and experienced chiropractor, and b) there is little evidence it helps. I think the point is many people say they got better after seeing a chiropractor but it is not very easy to see how their treatment could have caused an improvement.
I understand your points. You didn't improve with chiropractic treatment, and you've found little evidence that it helps. Did you ask your Chiropractor to explain the logic behind your course of treatments?
Hi,
Yes I did ask him. He said the electrotherapy was to reduce inflammation around the nerve and the manipulation/recommended exercises were to open up the disc space and create a better healing environment for the disc. However, I did not respond and neither did I think it was going to be cost effective because I went there for several sessions and I did not see any sign of improvement. I also think he probably made my symptoms a little worse. On days when I would be feeling very sore/stiff he would say I was looking much better, even though I was in more pain and the key symptoms were obviously present. He often remarked I was looking straighter but all objective parties responded that there was no improvement. Also, I did not find my body easing up. I think after several sessions I should have seen at least a marginal difference. He was a very charming man, but he came off as being a little smarmy and a bit of a con. I lost faith in him towards the end. Even his explanations did not have much logic to them. I find chiropractors' claims dubious and I also find it surprising they are allowed to practice. After speaking to my surgeons, and learning more about the mechanics of my problem, I don't think I will go in for a treatment where the spine in manually handled. With surgery, they remove part of the problem disc and though it is invasive and risky, it is clear that the actual procedure is removing the cause of the nerve compression. If the procedure goes well, and the vast majority of them do, you should gradually return to function as long as you do not do anything too stupid (that's also the case if you heal naturally). I think chiro's pray on those who are scared of surgery and frustrated with their problems. They have a lot of fancy techniques and gadgets but where is the science that manipulation will help in reducing the size of a very large disc prolapse. People who have this sort of treatment usually get better because a lot of people get better anyway. How can one credit he chiro treatment to the improvement? When I was seeing my chiro, there was a woman who also visited him and she swore by his skill. She told me he was great and his treatment works though it takes a very very long time. Now, call me a cynic, but how can one be sure that it was not time that healed the problem? How could one attribute the improvement to the chiro's work? I just find that too good to be true. I saw the guy a lot longer than he predicted I would be better, and I now wish I didn't use his services because my faith in him made me lose track of other treatment options, including surgery. I know surgery is scary and many people don't want it, but getting desperate and throwing money on these unproven and largely pointless treatments makes you feel much worse in the end because you know you have been conned.
Hi Hopehasgone
There is no therapy that can repair a ruptured disk, but depending on the surrounding tissue and the alignment of the vertebrae that are involved in the bulge, then it is often possible to alleviate the symptoms of the trapped nerve by changing the environment that the bulge is obstructing.
It will not work for everyone, but if someone is on a waiting list and would like to reduce the symptoms, then there are options that might work to help them whilst they await the surgery, no two people are the same and no two ruptured disks are the same, what works for one does not mean that it will work for another.
I don't mean any offence, but just reading what you're saying...
Now, call me a cynic, but how can one be sure that it was not time that healed the problem? How could one attribute the improvement to the chiro's work?
But before that you said...
With surgery, they remove part of the problem disc and though it is invasive and risky, it is clear that the actual procedure is removing the cause of the nerve compression.
If it's 'risky' then there's surely no way to prove that the surgery is actually going to work for you either... it could just be, after the surgeon has prodded. poked and manipulated you, that it's actually time that is doing the healing in that case too.
I can understand you are not happy with the treatment you've received from your chiropractor, and like you say, this person could be a good con person with no real skills or understanding in what they're doing. I still believe it's unfair to lump all chiropractors into that opinion, just as I'd say there are good and bad surgeons. 😉
All Love and Reiki Hugs
If it's 'risky' then there's surely no way to prove that the surgery is actually going to work for you either... it could just be, after the surgeon has prodded. poked and manipulated you, that it's actually time that is doing the healing in that case too.
Interestingly one of the speakers at a holistic health CPD event quoted evidence that sham surgery works as well as real surgery in some cases. he was saying one trial showed that just opening the patient up and closing without actually doing the full procedure (in one case it was heart surgery in other joint surgery) resulted in benefit to some patients. There is a 'placebo' effect from being opened up.....
I have had some of my fellow pharmacists condemn complementary therapy as faith healing. I pointed out that even in conventional medicine the patients belief in the doctor will have an effect on how the treatment works. The example the cynics came up with is that antibiotics will still cure an infection in an unconscious patient - which it will. But I pointed out that when they regain consciousness how well they get back to normal life will depend on how much they trust those looking after them as they recover. .
In the end ALL healing comes from within
Yes I did ask him. He said the electrotherapy was to reduce inflammation around the nerve and the manipulation/recommended exercises were to open up the disc space and create a better healing environment for the disc. However, I did not respond and neither did I think it was going to be cost effective because I went there for several sessions and I did not see any sign of improvement. I also think he probably made my symptoms a little worse. On days when I would be feeling very sore/stiff he would say I was looking much better, even though I was in more pain and the key symptoms were obviously present. He often remarked I was looking straighter but all objective parties responded that there was no improvement. Also, I did not find my body easing up. I think after several sessions I should have seen at least a marginal difference. He was a very charming man, but he came off as being a little smarmy and a bit of a con. I lost faith in him towards the end. Even his explanations did not have much logic to them. I find chiropractors' claims dubious and I also find it surprising they are allowed to practice. After speaking to my surgeons, and learning more about the mechanics of my problem, I don't think I will go in for a treatment where the spine in manually handled. With surgery, they remove part of the problem disc and though it is invasive and risky, it is clear that the actual procedure is removing the cause of the nerve compression. If the procedure goes well, and the vast majority of them do, you should gradually return to function as long as you do not do anything too stupid (that's also the case if you heal naturally). I think chiro's pray on those who are scared of surgery and frustrated with their problems. They have a lot of fancy techniques and gadgets but where is the science that manipulation will help in reducing the size of a very large disc prolapse. People who have this sort of treatment usually get better because a lot of people get better anyway. How can one credit he chiro treatment to the improvement? When I was seeing my chiro, there was a woman who also visited him and she swore by his skill. She told me he was great and his treatment works though it takes a very very long time. Now, call me a cynic, but how can one be sure that it was not time that healed the problem? How could one attribute the improvement to the chiro's work? I just find that too good to be true. I saw the guy a lot longer than he predicted I would be better, and I now wish I didn't use his services because my faith in him made me lose track of other treatment options, including surgery. I know surgery is scary and many people don't want it, but getting desperate and throwing money on these unproven and largely pointless treatments makes you feel much worse in the end because you know you have been conned.
I completely understand what you're saying, Yes, how can improvements be entirely attributed to the chiropractor - there are so many factors at play. I'm sure many people ask themselves the same fundamental, philosophical questions that you've asked yourself throughout your treatments (both orthodox and complementary), some of which you've raised in this thread.
You have given an account of your experience with a chiropractor. Anyone who comes across your thread can at least make a more informed decision as to which direction to take when considering treatment options. 🙂
Interestingly one of the speakers at a holistic health CPD event quoted evidence that sham surgery works as well as real surgery in some cases. he was saying one trial showed that just opening the patient up and closing without actually doing the full procedure (in one case it was heart surgery in other joint surgery) resulted in benefit to some patients. There is a 'placebo' effect from being opened up.....
Can I just comment on this please? Of course there is a placebo effect but it isn't a true one as there are several very real factors that have to be taken into consideration and could actually have helped cause an improvement.
For instance, the extra attention that an operation necessitates, the nurses the one to one discussions, the special care and time makes the person feel wanted and important. Then there is the bed rest given before, during and also needed after an operation and ga, then the actual trauma site will stir up the body's defences and immune system and cause scarring.
In days gone by racehorses' tendons were 'fired' by using red hot irons or chemicals to cause burns and the body would then heal the trauma site with scar tissue that was stronger then the original tendon. Thankfully now banned.
In the end ALL healing comes from within
Absolutely!