Fingers chronic

Hi Jeannie

Sorry to hear you're in such pain - can't be easy for you

My mum has arthritic fingers that lock - I give her a blast of Reiki for them every now and again, which unlocks them and reduces the pain.

EFT is good for pain, too - sounds like your fingers are too painful to tap for yourself, but there are lots of practitioners here or you could find a local one at who could help you.

You might also ask your doc to refer you to a pain clinic ...

Fx

I am so sorry to hear of your pain, you must feel abandoned after your GP's reaction, see another doctor who will understand and send you for blood tests and sort some medication for you perhaps referring you. I found alot of help from Arthritus Care forums, really nice people on that site will give you information and support.

Gentle hugs :hug:

You need to get to grips with the cause of the problem.

My mother has had progressive osteoarthritis for a long time, and despite trying 'everything' it got worse and worse. Bathing her hands and feet daily in epsom salts made an enormous difference, but still didn't actually halt it.

What seems to have turned this around is having her very old metal dental fillings - ten of them - changed for white ones, and a few other measures to speed up the subsequent removal of mercury from her system.

Two months on and she is reporting huge improvement already in pain symptoms, especially at night, although the deformity remains at this stage. However, mercury has a 15-30 year half-life in the body, and the damage is old, so nobody is expecting an overnight miracle.

But each case is unique - seek personal guidance from a practitioner to get to the underlying cause. I would still recommend bathing affected parts in epsom salts as an interim measure while you do your research, it may well buy you time. (buy it in bulk on the internet; one or two big cupfulls in basin of hot water; use cool water if you have any sensory loss; 30 mins daily)

(I'd be grateful if you'd PM how you get on in due course, it helps to improve future recommendations)

As another quick point, be aware that non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDS, eg aspirin) can erode cartillage, hence accelerating the damage.

Hi Jeannie
Another thing that can help is stinging nettles. Let a shrub gently brush past fingers on both hands. Once will do. I have done this a lot this summer. It stings obviously! but if you relax into that sensation it becomes quite nice. Worth a try - Nettle therapy!

One more quick pointer, any interference in bowel or kidney can make this worse, eg constipation. Several of my patients have had worsening after taking diarrhoea medicine; the body's response to suppression of an eliminative event is to send toxins, waste and irritants to the periphery for deep storage (ie in joints etc).

Hence suppression of symptoms, whether by meds, plant extract or crystals and prayers is not a long-term solution to disease if the very solid practical question of CAUSE is not answered.

Good luck!

Thanks for replies, orchid I did see a so called specialist about 5 years ago but it would appear from his comments that it was just something you have to put up with. My Doc has given tablets but because I have a bowel problem they then interfere with that (which kvdp does mention) I can't take steriods either apparently due to having glaucoma, so it is all seems so futile.

I will get some Epsom salts to try, oh er not so sure about the stinging nettles though jnani 😮 Maybe if I feel brave enough one day I will though 😀

The comment about fillings has me intrigued. EFT cordelion I will have to investigate more.

Thanks

A word of caution, Epsom Salts are contraindicated for people with hypertension or cardiovascular issues. That includes bathing or soaking in Epsom salts, or any type of mineral salts.

Exercise is necessary to prevent the fingers from becoming immobile. There is a fine line between too much, and too little exercise.

I have rheumatoid in my fingers and elsewhere in my body. For me, the deadly nightshade family of foods (potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant, peppers) exacerbate my problem--cause me a great deal of pain and stiffness. If I avoid these foods, my arthritis is pretty much under control. I do have to pace my activities. I like to knit and I like to keyboard (type on the computer). I have to limit myself in regard to these activities. If I use my fingers too much, there will be painful consequences. If I do not do some hand/finger exercises and some hand work, there will be painful consequences. Over time, I have worked out what works well for me in terms of pacing my activities.

There are other food groups which can trigger arthritis. Foods which are high in oxalic acid (spinach, chard, chocolate, soy and more) can be a trigger for arthritis in some people. For some people citrus fruits are a trigger factor. One can determine if any of these three groups of foods are a trigger by doing a one week elimination diet for each food category. After abstaining from the food category for a week, eat something from that group. If that type of food is a trigger for you, you will know within twenty-four hours.

Hi Jeannie
sounds as mentioned that there is a whole tapestry to unravel here, which is why cure for a specific problem is such a distraction. All these things are interconnected.

A great goal would be to reduce your dependence on medication, improve your digestion, nutritional status, the elimination of waste, regulation and coordination of the organs, mechanical ease of the musculoskeletal system and the organs, and find time and space for recovery to run its course.

In that way, the body heals itself, altogether, and begins to work more like the brilliantly tuned engine it ought to be.

In my view, this is not a service that your doctor is likely to provide. Most GPs are in the business of fighting fires (with some exceptions). At each stage they are trading the possible local relief against mild general poisoning by using pharmaceuticals. In the pharmaceutical method, one symptom might be a price to pay for relief from another, but there is no way to find 'health' in poisons.

You need to track down a practitioner who will offer a constitutional and complete therapy - not one who does lots of things (that's not holistic), but one who recognises the whole context of the problem. And you need a personal consultation. You may have to pay, but then you would have to pay for a plumber or anything else, most people realise those things are important enough to justify outlay.

I suggest speak to friends, family, colleagues, and find out who they have been to for this and that, you may be surprised. Then speak to a few of the recommended practitioners and discuss your situation before starting.

Good Luck!

[nb. yes on epsom salts usual caveats apply, but contraindications are relative, not absolute, and there is always a reason why something is contraindicated. Used externally they are pretty benign, given that NSAIDs kill more people than drink drivers and are sold in corner shops, any risk must be placed in context.

However, the biggest contraindication for any self-help is that it was found on the web, why not ask your doctor if he sees a reason not to use them?

I guess a swim in the sea would be a bad idea, but a chlorinated pool would be fine?]

Hi

So sorry to hear about your pain. I don't know how good this is, but I recently came across Jim Humble's MMS 'cure' for many things, and somebody (answering a blog) recommended it for arthritis of the fingers.

Just type MMS answers into a search engine, and see what you think.

Again; I can't vouch for it as I haven't tried it yet, but it might be worth a go.

All the best x

Hi there dogwoman

A word of caution, Epsom Salts are contraindicated for people with hypertension or cardiovascular issues. That includes bathing or soaking in Epsom salts, or any type of mineral salts

I am quite surprised to hear this. I'd be really grateful to learn where you got this information, as it doesn't match what I know (or think I know!) about magnesium. My understanding is that the complete opposite is true. I'm about to dash out the door, or I'd post my references. It's always good to hear conflicting views so I'm really interested in hearing about the contraindications you're citing.

Thanks!

Ava x

Hi Ava,
there is a lot of disinformation out there. Drug companies fund research that finds vitamins are dangerous and then recommend us to eat statins with hamburgers for a healthy diet. Epsom salts are not profitable, hence not a lot of modern research there anyway. If there is a contraindication it is more likely to do with the effects of hot water on the circulation, hence if there is any doubt, tepid water will do. They can also have a tendency to dehydrate, and I suppose any existing mineral depletion should be considered.

Hello Jeannie-

I have been using MSM for quite a long time with very good results. I actually started taking it some time ago because of its effect on cancer (MY CANCER, NO ONE ELSE'S CANCER). I don't wish to get into a dialog with anyone regarding the pros and cons of this therapy. It works for me and has worked for my for over 60 months , so I will continue it with ABSOLUTELY no proof of its effectiveness! MSM had side effects for me which didn't need to have disclaimers for its use. I take take it thoughout the day with no bad side effects and it allegedly is purged from your body every 12 hours. It is relatively inexpensive but cannot be patented and therefore not much use to those in search of 'high dollar' cures.

kcat

Ava, the issue is salts absorbing through the skin. A search on "Epsom Salt contraindications" will bring up information.

Years ago, when a friend sent me a jar of mineral bath salts, I did a search on the effects of bathing in mineral salts in regard to my hypertension. I found out that mineral salt absorption through the skin is an issue for people with certain conditions.

Here is one link. The cautions are listed at the bottom of the page. The cautions regarding use of Epsom Salts are more extensive than I indicated in my earlier post.

I, too, have used MSM and I felt that it was helpful to me. I discontinued use of MSM when I moved to the country, because I now have well water which contains sulphur.

I'd say that site is not a definitive scientific authority, although it contains some very interesting information:

Describing the skin as a highly porous membrane is not accurate, it is very slightly permeable at most. Some transport does occur; if, by 'reverse osmosis', they mean 'active transport' and chemical pumps then I suppose so, otherwise I suppose they mean 'osmosis'.

On the one hand they mention the benefits for cardiovascular health, on the other they are cautious about cardiovascular conditions, so if there is a contraindication, then it is relative. Something to navigate carefully, perhaps, I would grant.

It describes the risks of Hypermagnesia, but it does not say that this can occur from a topical soak - I doubt it can, but haven't any evidence.

It also says that Hypermagnesia is very common, but makes no suggestion that epsom salts soaking is the cause.

It also rightly warns about Epsom Salts BATHS and cardiovascular conditions, but does not say why. A hot bath could indeed be a problem with a heart condition, and I would suggest caution anyway, whether it contains epsom salts or not.

My understanding is that by soaking the feet and hands material is drawn outwards more than in, and that is the whole point. I have treated quite a few patients this way who also have cardiovascular problems, without any observed ill-effects of any kind, only benefit. It is precisely when there are circulatory problems, that build up of metabolites at the extremities is more likely, creating further disruption to circulation, hence these are patients in whom this procedure might be quite helpful.

I agree wholeheartedly that consulting the physician is a good idea, especially when considering any recommendation from strangers on the web.

I forgot to mention that acupuncture treatments can be very beneficial for arthritic problems. I say this according to my personal experience.

Hi

So sorry to hear about your pain. I don't know how good this is, but I recently came across Jim Humble's MMS 'cure' for many things, and somebody (answering a blog) recommended it for arthritis of the fingers.

Just type MMS answers into a search engine, and see what you think.

Again; I can't vouch for it as I haven't tried it yet, but it might be worth a go.

All the best x

ah quite a debate going on here, I am interested in what everyone can come up with and will take all on board, I don't know as yet what MMS is but will check it out.

Thanks again all Oh is it MMS or MSM?

Years ago, when a friend sent me a jar of mineral bath salts, I did a search on the effects of bathing in mineral salts in regard to my hypertension. I found out that mineral salt absorption through the skin is an issue for people with certain conditions.

Hello again Dogwoman

Forgive me, but I wonder if folk might be confusing magnesium sulphate (Epsom Salts) with sodium chloride (table Salt)? It sounds like that because the hypertension concern is one associated with 'salt' (of the sodium kind)... rather than magnesium sulphate. I suspect that bath salts are mainly sea salt, cos it's cheap, with a few nice things thrown in. However I'd be surprised though if you were adding enough bath salts in the water for the sodium concentration to be of any concern to hypertension. I say this because I know you need 1.5 pounds (a lot!) of magnesium sulphate to be added to the bath water for it to have a therapeutic concentration i.e. one which will improve low magnesium status.

See this [url]fabulous summary[/url] of the research by [url]Rosemary Waring[/url]* on magnesium and sulphate status following a soak in a 1% concentration bath. This fully supports the anecdote kvdp cites for the efficacy of magnesium sulphate (Epsom Salts) foot soaks for arthritis symptoms. It is also excellent for anxiety and depression. Fabulous stuff!

*Incredible woman... I've seen her speak at conference.

Ava x

Jeannie - it's MSM. You can take quite high doses by powder form... it tastes horrific in water though. But...I belong to several other online forums which report that at high doses MSM is very effectively used for breast growth and also for skin lightening. It's so effective in fact that MSM it develops fatty tissue in the breast area for men - which is desirable for male-to-female transgender, but not desirable for the guys who are using it for skin lightening. I've not looked into the mechanisms, but it seems like it breaks down the cell walls of melatonin cells (skin lightening)... and has some sort of effect on female hormones (breast growth). As well as this it affects your periods, plus you might see in increase in body hair. Oh, and other fora use it as part of a regime for growing long hair.

The doses I'm talking about for the above are of >3grams/day. I think that equates to half a teaspoon.

I know it sounds like I'm trying to put you off MSM. I'm not. I'm just saying to be aware that at higher doses you might get effects which you were not expecting. I'm really sorry, but I have nothing to contribute regarding its usefulness for arthritis... but if you want to grow giant boobs or a hairy back see above (ha!).

Ava x

Hello again Dogwoman

Forgive me, but I wonder if folk might be confusing magnesium sulphate (Epsom Salts) with sodium chloride (table Salt)? It sounds like that because the hypertension concern is one associated with 'salt' (of the sodium kind)... rather than magnesium sulphate. I suspect that bath salts are mainly sea salt, cos it's cheap, with a few nice things thrown in. However I'd be surprised though if you were adding enough bath salts in the water for the sodium concentration to be of any concern to hypertension. I say this because I know you need 1.5 pounds (a lot!) of magnesium sulphate to be added to the bath water for it to have a therapeutic concentration i.e. one which will improve low magnesium status.

See this [url]fabulous summary[/url] of the research by [url]Rosemary Waring[/url]* on magnesium and sulphate status following a soak in a 1% concentration bath. This fully supports the anecdote kvdp cites for the efficacy of magnesium sulphate (Epsom Salts) foot soaks for arthritis symptoms. It is also excellent for anxiety and depression. Fabulous stuff!

*Incredible woman... I've seen her speak at conference.

Ava x

I did not research table salt, Ava. I researched mineral salts in regard to hypertension. Epsom salts were included in the information I found.

When one suggests therapies which might be of help to a person whose history is unknown, it is good to mention any potential hazards. It is not safe to assume that there are no hazards. How many herbal enthusiasts are unaware that parsley tea is contraindicated for a pregnant woman, or that lavender is contraindicated for an epileptic? I have made it my habit to look up hazards and contraindications, even when it seems there would be none.

I did not research table salt, Ava. I researched mineral salts in regard to hypertension. Epsom salts were included in the information I found.

Goodness, no, my poor wording. I wasn't suggesting that you searched for table salt - I was saying that to me it appears that somewhere someone appears to have confused the word 'salt' when they think about Epsom 'salt' (magnesium sulphate). Hence the symptoms that you are concerned about were those usually associated with sodium chloride (which is table salt). Magnesium sulphate is indeed a salt... but doesn't contain sodium or chloride... which contribute to hypertension. Bath salts are normally sea salt (sodium chloride with small amounts of naturally occurring minerals) - hence where I think the confusion has arisen... somewhere.

Something I forgot to share was that magnesium sulphate is what you get in [url]floatation tanks solution[/url]. The very very supersaturated water that you float in (can't sink) is magnesium sulphate... Epsom salts. If you are concerned re Jeannie soaking her feet in it then perhaps we could suggest that she finds a local floatation centre and spends an hour in one of the tanks. It's very safe, even being recommended for [url]pregnant women[/url] and [url]easing arthritis[/url]. It's an absolutely lovely experience - the water is warm, and they play soothing music that you can further relax to. We had a centre near us but alas it's been a victim of the economic downturn :-(.

Sorry for the confusion, and I hope I've sort of cleared it up???

Ava x

I'm really sorry, but I have nothing to contribute regarding its usefulness for arthritis... but if you want to grow giant boobs or a hairy back see above (ha!).

Ava x

Hells bells, think I will stay away from this stuff :dogrun:
Also you would never get me in a floatation tank I suffer from claustrophobia! I might try aromatherapy oil on my fingers.

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