CNHC - my views

and while I am at it, SRTC, for whom I was a founder, are also a waste of space, basically one PA funding it, making all the decisions, and basking in its officialness. Well, unfortunately it is a 'lead' body with one school that doesnt meet the recognised standard, and other schools that arent even sports therapy! :rolleyes:

Hi Richard.

Thought you would have put this thread on the sports therapy forum. Seems to have gone under the radar. I'm sure plenty of people on there would want to read your views on CNHC and add their own thoughts and views.

Dan.

Hi Dan,
I did think about that, but I have had emails from people running organisations outside of sports therapy, that are reluctantly involved, who have the same opinion as I do, and also I was PSB for massage, not sports therapy, even though most of my recent work with them was involving sports therapy, so I thought it only fair to post on the general thread.

Just feel very let down by them, and though the industry will survive, in hindsight, we could have spent so much more of our time and energies promoting our own industry, instead of propping up CNHC.

My views and emails have been in public circulation for a few years, as there are plenty there who have passed them around to organisations outside of CNHC, as they arent happy, but dont know what to do about it.

I think it does boil down to one thing, and that is money, I never thought it did, but its the only reason I can think of why certain organisations dont want change.

It hit home to me today when I was looking at one of the PA websites, offering 'discounted' massage couches to their members. The 'discounted' prices are much more than if their members went onto the retailers online shop and bought them directly. Its all about making money, which, in therapy, is a sad thing in my opinion.

Just re-read my original post and after a recent post about spelling and grammar thought I best apologise for the incorrect use of the word 'site' when I actually meant 'sight'!

😮

This hasn't gone under the pixie's radar :rolleyes:

It is a shame about ST's comments as it seemed at last there was some kind of united front within the CAM industry. A register with a kind of offical backing, while the other mickey mouse registers seemed to be a bit of a ego trip or a means of someone to make some money as it's easier than massaging all day :p

Unfortunately CAM being an industry there are plenty of people wishing a slice of the pie, whether it is nutrient or herb-based product with little evidence of efficiency, tutors misinterpreting the term Guided Learning Hours, or PA's telling porkie pies for membership fees.

My CHNC registration runs out in March. I see how it goes until then. Have I got any extra work for being on this register? Don't know! Does the public assume that we are some how state regulated? I think many do and don't know the issues and differences in CHNC, HPC, practicing under commonlaw or anything else.

The CNHC in their newsletters like the promote therapists who have got work, especially in offical settlings, by being registered with them. Can anyone else say that registration has been useful for them as well?

RP

Read the above posts with interest and vigorous agreement. Especially agree with ST it's more than sports massage affected by the CNHC's lack of impact.

Frankly I've never heard CNHC mentioned other than by therapists. My clients aren't aware of CNHC or particularly interested. Maybe it's a good thing. We only see public demand for increased regulation when things go badly wrong in an industry (eg newspapers/phone hacking or energy prices).

Otherwise politicians are happy to leave industries to regulate themselves. Problem with that is a regulatory body has to be organised and funded and it's expensive and time consuming building and maintaining public awareness.

We're such a fragmented industry it's an uphill struggle. I have incredible respect for people who give their time and energy to projects like these but doubt we'll see an effective complementary therapies regulator in my lifetime.

I still think we need regulation, but that can come from stronger PA's, ethical awarding organisations and stopping insurance companies from insuring one day mickey mouse diplomas.

To claim public protection isnt an argument any more. We have laws in place to re-dress any issues you have with a quack therapist, or any other service provider for that matter. A regulator can do no more than strike them off the register.

If I had a dodgy treatment and I didnt get re-dress from the therapist, I would take them to court, its a simple as that, and believe me, there are lots of therapists being taken to court, and how many of the claimants put a complaint in to the therapists PA or regulator first? None! Straight to solicitor or citizens advice!

The one thing I hoped we would get from CNHC was an improvement in training. And whilst I am the first to admit that there has been a big improvement, what CNHC has done is to legitimise those training providers who arent meeting the standards but come under the umbrellas of QCF awarding organisations, or huge PAs.

The wont accept this, so we still have shoddy courses, and people going onto the register that shouldnt be there. I dont want to be on a list with someone that has spent 2 days doing a QCF massage course - why would I?

People make their own choices in life, and I have made mine, based on experience and learning by my mistake!

Lets name the courses and trainers, to prevent any would be students enrolling on substandards courses,

how can VTCT justify their QCF qualifications being achieved in anything from 2 days to 38 weeks, where is the continuity? and why can't CNHC see that this is a problem ? this qualfication CANNOT meet their published lead body standards or core curricula, yet they accept applications as they need to increase registrant numbers, I for 1 will not be renewing, and I sat round the table for a few years as an advisor, and brought up these very issues, I resigned my position in protest, but rejoined when promises were made... they have not been kept

I would like to know how many Sports Therapists signed upto the CNHC. Im not talking about Sports Massage Therapists. There should have been a drive to get graduates involved. It doesnt take rocket science to know that they make up the bulk of Sports Therapists in this country. There wasnt a real (and still isnt) alternative for them regarding regulation so they should have been encouraged to join.

There are so few TP's that run Sports Therapy Diploma courses now in this country, and they cannot compete with the dozens of Universities that churn out 100's of Graduate Sports Therapists every year.

Standards are inconsequential. Most people dont even know what a Sports Therapist is and given the choice they will go for the one with letters after their name. Word of mouth can only get you so far.

Those who poured scorn on the voluntary regulation route will be relishing what has become of Sports Therapies involvement with the CNHC and will again say that it is not suitable.

What is of more concern is the CHRE's view of proceedings. I believe that regulation will never happen because there is too much infighting. Too many chiefs as the saying goes.

I suggest that eveyone in the industry cracks on building a successful business and forget about regulation. Done without it from the start so just forget about it!

Right can't stay on here all day. I've got a Sports Therapy home study course to finish! 😉

I would like to know how many Sports Therapists signed upto the CNHC. Im not talking about Sports Massage Therapists. one PA incorrectly verified S&R therapists, there are no stand alone SMTs on the register, we monitor it weekly to ensure they are on the massage register. over 100 have been reclassified to the massage register according to a communication I have from CNHC There should have been a drive to get graduates involved. SST declined several invitations to sit at the table, imo to ensure they keep their income stream from grad therapists, despite being 5 times more expensive than othet PAs in the industry It doesnt take rocket science to know that they make up the bulk of Sports Therapists in this country. There wasnt a real (and still isnt) alternative for them regarding regulation so they should have been encouraged to join. most working ST's do not actually come from grad route, a high proportion of those who responded to a recent survey stating they still work in the industry have dilpoma route, fitness quals, coaching quals and previous life skills, ie mature entry students, the SST may trun out 100s of grad STs, but many communications STO receive are complaining that promises of jobs are not available, those working for themselves tend to be diploma therapists

There are so few TP's that run Sports Therapy Diploma courses now in this country, and they cannot compete with the dozens of Universities that churn out 100's of Graduate Sports Therapists every year. not quite true, many FE colleges run concurrent ST qualifications in their FdSc's we know because we assess their students and provide certification of competency that would be otherwise unavailable. true there are few private providers, however from sept 12 I know of at least 2 major awarding bodies introducing stand alone FE qualifications in ST

Standards are inconsequential. Most people dont even know what a Sports Therapist is and given the choice they will go for the one with letters after their name. Word of mouth can only get you so far. so you are saying we should stop fighting and allow unsuitable courses to become more popular, and your own course would be full of students who would be ill prepared to work in business, in the industry and would then moan about course standards being insufficient.

Those who poured scorn on the voluntary regulation route will be relishing what has become of Sports Therapies involvement with the CNHC and will again say that it is not suitable. but it is more suitable than no regulation, as achieved by SST

What is of more concern is the CHRE's view of proceedings. I believe that regulation will never happen because there is too much infighting. Too many chiefs as the saying goes. it is a shame that some of the chiefs have been nowhere near a clinic for 20 years

I suggest that eveyone in the industry cracks on building a successful business and forget about regulation. Done without it from the start so just forget about it! those who bury their heads in the proverbial sands, will eventually suffocate, that is not rocket science

Right can't stay on here all day. I've got a Sports Therapy home study course to finish! 😉

many a true word spoke in jest

until "they" stop spouting about stat regs, graduate therapists will not want to join vol regs, its a shame but it wasnt sold well to SST by CNHC staff who gave advice at a meeting that didnt take account of what its own industry specialists were saying.

It wont personally make a bit of difference to me, Im as busy as I want to be
regards BG

Hi BGFL,

I don't know why the graduates were'nt being targeted. The SST arent interested.....So what! Nothing to stop PA's approaching the students directly and saying to them this is voluntary regulation for sports therapists it will not exclude you from from state regulation if it were to ever happen and you can still be a member of the SST and also go on the CNHC register. Did anyone from the PA's or SRTC make a concerted effort to go and meet these students at there Uni's and say ' You have been told this for years and nothing has happened, we can offer you an alternative.'

With regards to the survey that went out (I got a copy as I am on the STO mailing list) how many were sent to ST's who had gone down the graduate route, and of those how many replied? Doing a survey on that scale is a massive undertaking and you would need to rely on the goodwill of other PA's to give details of their membership. Data Protection legislation would be huge hurdle in this situation. I know one PA (SST) whose membership are largely graduates who certainly wouldnt be handing over such information. I don't think that a survey without the approval of the whole industry can give a true picture of what is going on.

'but it is more suitable than no regulation, as achieved by SST'

You made the above statement in your last post, however in a previous post you said that you will not be renewing your registration because of all issues that have become apparent with the CNHC. Is it suitable or not?

I dont think much effort has gone into getting graduates onboard. Maybe they arent wanted?

Must be my suspicious cynical mind but I believe there is more to the diplomate vs graduate debate.;)

AspireST

so AspireST, you are on the mailing list, but have you joined STO, you want us to give you all the info without being a member ??? as do several hundred SST members who have recently signed up for the newsletter and contact STO regularly, yet they still pay £300 for membership and insurance with SST, when STO is less than £100, what can we do to persuade them to switch allegiance.
As Ive said previously, why dont you get involved and direct your passion for the industry to helping others, why dont you get qualified and join the industry debate from the inside rather than going on about how badly you have been treated and put your self in a position of assisting others with similar issues, why not write to your MP about your course, why not write to trading standards, why notr issue SST with a solicitros letter outlining your wishes to see the problem sorted, why not actually do something instead of picking fault with the system, which we admit is not perfect, but is a register of STs now that weve fought to have remedial removed, we are now fighting to get remedial PAs to lose verifying status
PAs cannot approach SST members directly, as we dont have their contact details, and as such dont have the individuals permission to contact them in person, we do communicate with Universitiescand have made great inroads with the FdScs but SST still brainwash their students into the STAT REGS IS IMMINENT and it is hard to counter that.
for the record, I won't be rejoining CNHC register, that is a personal decision based on how I have been treated, but Im correct in saying that it is still the better option than burying your head in the sand and listening to SST spouting rubbish
SST have achieved very little, yet CNHC have introduced a register, published standards, SRTC have lead the NOS development which is now in place, CNHC now have to up their game and police those standards, they have to get tough with the PAs who validate qualifications and not the individual therapists, when that happens, and the process has begun, CNHC will be worth registering with. Until they act o nthe information that I and ST have given them, we will not rejoin

The fact that SST and others dont follow NOS, which was industry driven and had contribution from major awarding bodies, sporting bodies and experts from ST, just highlights that that SST are elitist and wont consult with the rest of the industry....

BG

hope that clarifies my position.

so AspireST, you are on the mailing list, but have you joined STO, you want us to give you all the info without being a member ??? as do several hundred SST members who have recently signed up for the newsletter and contact STO regularly, yet they still pay £300 for membership and insurance with SST, when STO is less than £100, what can we do to persuade them to switch allegiance.
As Ive said previously, why dont you get involved and direct your passion for the industry to helping others, why dont you get qualified and join the industry debate from the inside rather than going on about how badly you have been treated and put your self in a position of assisting others with similar issues, why not write to your MP about your course, why not write to trading standards, why notr issue SST with a solicitros letter outlining your wishes to see the problem sorted, why not actually do something instead of picking fault with the system, which we admit is not perfect, but is a register of STs now that weve fought to have remedial removed, we are now fighting to get remedial PAs to lose verifying status
PAs cannot approach SST members directly, as we dont have their contact details, and as such dont have the individuals permission to contact them in person, we do communicate with Universitiescand have made great inroads with the FdScs but SST still brainwash their students into the STAT REGS IS IMMINENT and it is hard to counter that.
for the record, I won't be rejoining CNHC register, that is a personal decision based on how I have been treated, but Im correct in saying that it is still the better option than burying your head in the sand and listening to SST spouting rubbish
SST have achieved very little, yet CNHC have introduced a register, published standards, SRTC have lead the NOS development which is now in place, CNHC now have to up their game and police those standards, they have to get tough with the PAs who validate qualifications and not the individual therapists, when that happens, and the process has begun, CNHC will be worth registering with. Until they act o nthe information that I and ST have given them, we will not rejoin

The fact that SST and others dont follow NOS, which was industry driven and had contribution from major awarding bodies, sporting bodies and experts from ST, just highlights that that SST are elitist and wont consult with the rest of the industry....

BG

hope that clarifies my position.

Rant over? Always so personal.:D

Yes I am on the mailing list for STO and other PA's. Just because I am not a member doesnt mean that I don't have the right to keep up to date with whats happening in the industry. There are so many agenda's and misinformation and points scoring going on that it is wise to listen to everyone and make your own mind up as to who you believe and who quite frankly, is talking rubbish! Besides, as you are aware the course I am doing isn't recognised by the STO so how could I join. Not going to hand money over for a student membership with no prospects of full membership at the end of it am I.;)

As for the problems with my course I have done much of what you have mentioned with little result. At the start I even went to the SRTC but soon realised that they talk a good game but are just another toothless tiger. I'm sure that you would now agree.

Yes NOS etc have been introduced but no one pays a blind bit of notice. Yes the course I am on doesnt meet those standards apparently but they are carrying on as if nothing has happened. What is the SRTC or whoever going to do about that......Nothing because there's b***** all they can do! Round and round we go.:rolleyes:

Would love to get involved in the industry but whose side do you take, who do you believe? There can be no sitting on the fence in this industry!

A pleasure as always....

Hi Dan,
I agree with lots of what you are saying, and yes, round and round we go. At the moment, there is no one to go to with complaints, thats true, there is no governing body, there is no organisation with teeth. IF any organisation gets CHRE accreditation, it will only be after they have been scrutinised, and I do mean scrutinised. I have said previously I have a ton of information ready to be handed over to them, if any of three or four organisation apply. It wont be handed over by me, it will be handed over by three or four MPs, that I have been consulting with regarding these matters.

As for sitting on the fence, HP is a great way to air your views, and allows people to see what you have been saying, and I am sure that I cant be accused of fence sitting, moving from one side to the other when I have felt I needed to, yes, but fence sitting, no. I say it as I see it.

I do believe if what I am hearing is correct, one PA, will be getting off the fence, and allowing only BSc grads into its membership, which IMO will mean that they have a couple of hundred members each year coming and going, whereas the diplomates do seem to have much longer careers.

The old 'imminent stat regs' appears to have backfired with some universities, who are actually doing some work for themselves, by the way of contacting HPC directly, to be told actually NO IT ISNT HAPPENING. Erm, isnt this what we have been saying for years? So what are they doing about it? Looking for alternative accrediting bodies, and who is the alternative they are coming to...............? :D;) At least they can see we are actually doing something for STs.

You are right to be cynical, but I disagree with people wanting therapists with letters after their name. The only people I see who want the title, is those who dont have the confidence in their abilities, usually because they are working in the wrong field. Joe Public couldnt care less when they are in pain and want fixing!

This industry is much bigger than all of us, and with the number of people beating down my door to train, its just going to continue to grow, long after the arguments have died down.

You are right to carry on your studies, and one day you will appreciate this industry from the other side, and hopefully with your passion you will be as successful as most of the STs I know.