RE: Prostitute Murders
ORIGINAL: Big_D
ORIGINAL: calla lily
i agree with you woodcat and personally, i wish they would replace the word 'prostitute' with another one as it sounds so awful!
How about "Lovely Ladies of the Evening"?
i like that bigD, has a certain ring to it! 😀
something has just popped into my head, how does 'night workers' sound?
warm wishes- calla lily x
RE: Prostitute Murders
i've just read the link you have kindly provided fozzyo, and belle du jour has put her thoughts across so eloquently- well done to her!:D
this might sound naive of me, as i'm sure there are some 'ladies' who do it, but i personally feel that these girls were not hurting anybody by selling themselves in order to pay for thier next 'fix', at least they weren't going round mugging people, shoplifting or thieving from loved ones to pay for their habit.
warm wishes- calla lily x
RE: Prostitute Murders
Supersub
City bankers? Doesn't everyone disapprove of them? Probably mainly because of the way they pay themselves massive bonuses... with OUR money. Our savings, our pension funds. If they've got so much cash sloshing about that they can afford to dish out seven-figure bonuses, there has got to be something wrong there.
On theissue of disapproval,a question to every parent... Would you prefer your children to grow up and have the opportunity to be a City Banker or a Prostitute?
I think most parents would opt for the City Banker. Ok...if not a City Banker then some career that was reasonably well payed or worthwhile. What sort of a parent would say: " our daughter will make a wonderful prostitute one day" or "our Kevin wanted to join the Navy, Itold him not tobe so silly, be a male prostitute instead"? I think that all parents would agree that prostitution would be one area that you would want to steer your kids away from as a career choice.
Does society disapprove of prostitution? In the above context...yes it does, very much so.
Should society disapprove of prostitution? I think it should, I think that society should disapprove of any relationship that is exploitative. Prostitution re-enforces the negative view of women as mere sex objects. This in turn re-enforces the attitudes that lead to violence against vulnerable women from pimps pushers and punters.
However much an approving society would try to make prostitution safe the attitude towards them would remain the same, and so would the potential dangers.
Supersub
Choice is the key word. Nobody should be forced to do anything against their will, whether it be prostitution or working as an estate agent, so people trafficking should not cloud the issue.
In the countries that have a liberal approach to prostitution people traffiking because of prostitution is much more of a problem than where there is prohibition. What makes people think that it would be any different in this country? I'm trying not to laugh when I ask this but...do people think that boarder control and law enforcement is more efficient in the UK than in other European countries? [sm=rollaugh.gif]
Dunkirk
RE: Prostitute Murders
It's funny, isn't it, though? Society disapproves of prostitution. So presumably market forces should bring it to a rapid end. Er, no... funnily enough, it seems to be still going strong. How can this be?
Maybe it's because people are two-faced... and the men who go to prostitutes while saying they wouldn't like their own daughters to be one are top of the two-faced list.
So yes, you're right - prostitution is not a career choice for my daughters that would delight me. I would hope they would be able to enjoy careers that would allow them to use their brains, rather than just their bodies. But if they did find that they could make more than I ever have by selling themselves (and prostitutes don't always operate on street corners on trading estates), I wouldn't be ableto argue with that.Andif it was their choice, it would not be exploitative. Not like if they were working for some financial institution ripping off their customers.
RE: Prostitute Murders
Supersub
It's funny, isn't it, though? Society disapproves of prostitution. So presumably market forces should bring it to a rapid end. Er, no... funnily enough, it seems to be still going strong. How can this be?
Society now disapproves of a lot of things like junk food and smoking. Smoking hasn't come to a rapid end because of market forcesbut then you don't see many people smoking in the workplace now do you. How did this state of affairs come about? Could it be that the government legislated to stop it, so not a lot to do with market forces really.
Supersub
Maybe it's because people are two-faced... and the men who go to prostitutes while saying they wouldn't like their own daughters to be one are top of the two-faced list.
This is hardly a statement of approval for prostitution. Sounds to me as though you thoroughly disapprove of men who use prostitutes. It's difficult to approve of prostitution while disapproving of the Prostitute's main source of income.
Supersub
So yes, you're right - prostitution is not a career choice for my daughters that would delight me. I would hope they would be able to enjoy careers that would allow them to use their brains, rather than just their bodies. But if they did find that they could make more than I ever have by selling themselves (and prostitutes don't always operate on street corners on trading estates), I wouldn't be ableto argue with that.Andif it was their choice, it would not be exploitative. Not like if they were working for some financial institution ripping off their customers.
Yes...some Prostitutes do make a lot of money, just like some City Bankers perhaps use drugs. The reality is though that the majority of Prostitutes are represented by the 5 young women that were murdered in Ipswich. Many live unglamorous, drug addicted lives in squalor.Many face the threat of violence every day from men who treat them as sex objects and who have no respect for them whatsoever.
As a society we disapprove of some lifestyles, perhaps where people smoke, eat a poor diet of junk food, take too little exercise, watch too much TV and play video games.
We would be hypocritical if we then condoned prostitution, regulated it and created tolerance zones. This would then make the statement that prostitution is acceptable and then it would attract even more young women into a life of degradation and abuse. Not just from this country but for women who are traffiked here.
You see Supersub...I think you have the disapproval thing all wrong. Its not about two-faced men or whether middle class people or City Bankers or you or I are offended by prostitution. Its about keeping a lid on something that causes misery and ruins the lives of vulnerable women.
Dunkirk.
RE: Prostitute Murders
So what you are saying is that women turn to prostitution because they are so desperate that it is the only way they can make a living. And we should ban it. So they can't make a living.
And no, I don't thoroughly disapprove of men who deal with prostitutes. There are people who wantto sell and people who want to buy. Worse things happen in this world.
RE: Prostitute Murders
hey jeannie, I am sort off sympathetic to the plight of anyone who has made wrong choices that leave them up shit creak (been to enough junky funerals).
I don't tend to have an emotional reaction to the situation i.e. a nation whose police are fighting a losing battle against the junky thieves.
These are litterally the footsoldiers of the organized crime gangs("gangs" suggests too formal a link). The simple fact that the ownership of a big lump of illegal contraband be it smack, crack,charlie or speed means that you have an army that is loyal to the supplier. They have a motivating force that drives them to do the bidding of the guy who's got, like none other in society.
The power to control hundreds or thousands of people all stealing, scamming, whoreing, mugging and dealing in fact the people who are the problem. These people see themselves as having little or no alternative. Make the big pile of drugs in the hold of the freighter worthless overnight and they will simply have to take it elsewhere.
There is no way to replace smack that ispharmacutical grade withdirty, weak street scag.
I see no alternative to this approach if you have one I would love to hearit.
I too saw some of the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness!
yuletide greeting, spring is a commin' magnolia and camellia blossom is fattening. (big happy smile) jono
RE: Prostitute Murders
I have watched with interest this thread
and i agree withmost of that has been said
I live in the town this happened in, and one of the women who has been murdered has a son at the school i work at and my daughter goes to.
thankfully they have charged a man with the murders now (and another is out on bail)
that of course doesnt mean that all is ok now and i know for a fact the "ladies of the night" will still be plying their trade and (those that do) taking their drugs andin some casesannoying the locals in the area!
i can say this, as a friend of minelives on the road "the murderer" lives on and is often asking me to walk home with him as he is fed up of being asked "if he is looking for business" when coming home from the pub or wherever he may have been that evening!
My sympathy goes out to the families of the murdered girls
RE: Prostitute Murders
I sing the song
because I love the man
I know that some
of you don't understand
Milk-blood
to keep from running out.
I've seen the needle
and the damage done
A little part of it in everyone
~
But every junkie's
like a settin' sun.
- Needle & The Damage Done ~ Neil Young
RE: Prostitute Murders
sex-workers
That description makes theprostitution of one's body sound almost respectable, Fozzyo. There's nothing respectable in selling one's body to make money.
'Daily Hate-Mail'? I read the 'Daily Mail' and I do not hate anybody. That's a pretty sweeping statement of your own, I'd say.
Let's keep sweeping statements out of it too, shall we?
Patsy.
RE: Prostitute Murders
Hi Nick,
You'd be surprised at what some men find attractive. There must be a demand for druggy-looking women otherwise these kerb-crawling types wouldn't be interested.
I am utterly surprised that some women would entertain getting into a car with some strange bloke for sex. If one is going to choose prostitution as a way to make money then for goodness sake, go 'upmarket.'
Patsy.
RE: Prostitute Murders
Nick,
I cannot believe that some women are so destitute and so wretched that the only way they know how to make a living is on their backs. There are plenty of jobs that women can do without them needing to sell their bodies.
If there wasn't a demand for prostitutes then there wouldn't be a supply. There will always be a demand, but let's not say 'these women have no other way of supporting themselves.' There are many ways a woman can support herself, but their pimps, drug dealers and punters keep them on the streets. Very often, when a prostitute wishes to renounce her 'profession' and go into another line of work, the pimp threatens her and coerces her into carrying on the job.
Drugs and alcohol fuel prostitution, that is unequivocal.
Patsy.
RE: Prostitute Murders
ORIGINAL: songstress
Drugs and alcohol fuel prostitution, that is unequivocal.
Patsy.
Totally agree with this statement.
I am amazed how some of the contributors on here, mainly men I hastened to add, more or less condone prostitution.
As a women the thought of having to sleep with all and anyone, albeit for money, turns my stomach. How would you men who think it is quite acceptable, feel about having to make `love` to someone you find physically repulsive? Give it some thought.
What about disease as well, if they are are drug addicts I doubt sexual health is on top of their agenda.
As songstress says there are others way of making a living.
RE: Prostitute Murders
Orangeblossom
I am amazed how some of the contributors on here, mainly men I hastened to add, more or less condone prostitution.
Orangeblossom,
There is a presumption that any man thatspeaks against condoning prostitution is a secret user of their services. This wasstated in the Belle Du Jour article and is echoed in the contribution quoted below.
Supersub
Maybe it's because people are two-faced... and the men who go to prostitutes while saying they wouldn't like their own daughters to be one are top of the two-faced list.
The assumption is that people who don't condone prostitution do so because it somehow offends their sensibilities. They fail to see that the arguements against liberalisation are arguements against the official approval of a lifestyle that wrecks lives and causes untold misery. This in turn would cause an expansion in that lifestyle causing more misery, more addiction and wreck more lives.
Dunkirk
RE: Prostitute Murders
I dont agree with the statement that drugs and alcohol fuel prositition, lots of things fuel prostitution. The reason that some women resort to prostitution in my opinion, is that for one, when people are using drugs, they start off getting a "hit", its pleasant, a good feeling, they then need to use more and more just to seem or feel normal.
The reason that I think people sell their bodies is that they know that they can make a lot of money relatively quickly, some of these girls could be using anything up to 350 a day to fund their dependency.
I know that I dont make that money in a week, so the suggestion that people could make such funds elsewhere, its a nice sentiment but one that I dont agree with.
There are lots of other countries that could show us an example when it comes to decriminalising certain activities, the Netherlands for example. Whatever we agree or dont agree about drug users or prostitutes, as long as there is demand there will be supply.
There was a suggestion about tolerance zones but the Labour Government said no to these. At what price?
I work with people who use drugs and alcohol, I dont think it is fair to suggest that its the women who use drugs that dont care about their sexual health.
These people are human beings and for the grace of God it could be anyone we love. I will say something, there are blind eyes being turned to all sorts of things by the powers that be.
In the town where I work, there are several families who live in houses that I couldnt afford in a million years, all paid for in cash and all of the back of drug money.
There are some people out there who are untouchable in the eyes of the law, while people are dying to feed a habit.
I hope every one of the murdered girls wherever they are are at peace and I hope their families find peace as well.