Good thing? Bad thing?
Body dumped in the sea? What were they thinking??? Assuming that the reports are true...
I would've preferred a proper trial. But perhaps if someone I loved had died on 9/11, I'd be feeling differently.
Well its certainly not a bad thing. Bin Laden inspired terrorists and encouraged attacks all over the world, in Europe, Asia, America and Africa, whether or not he was solely responsible for 9/11 (which I doubt). I know he talked a lot about martyrdom, but given the care he took over his own security, he obviously didn't want to die just yet.
They dumped his body because if he'd been buried his tomb would have become a shrine for some people. The bodies of Hitler and his friends were burned for the same reason. Although of course this resulted in ongoing claims that they also was still alive. Al-Qaeda themselves, and their pals in Hamas, certainly seem to think that Bin Laden is now dead.
"War Crimes" trials have little credibility, since its always the losers in a war who get put on trial. For example, Stalin and the USSR commited terrible war crimes in WWII, such as the Katyn Forest massacre of 14,000 Polish officers, for which no one was ever tried. The Nuremberg trials were in fact the Russians' idea- Churchill and Roosevelt wanted to just execute the Nazi leaders on the spot. Bin Laden would have used the trial as a soapbox- he'd have had a worldwide audience.
As to the long term result, I think it will give Obama a big boost in the 2012 elections, cos he's achieved what Clinton and Bush didn't. And although I'm not that impressed with Obama, given the alternative (Palin or someone like her) I think the world's better off with 4 more years of Obama. He's calm, intelligent, and is not a religious bigot eagerly anticipating Armageddon.
All words of wisdom, Pete and you've enlightened me with your views. I think that the hastily disposed-of body - for whatever reason - will be greeted with a grim kind of relish by many, though. There will be much speculation.
The Nuremberg trials were in fact the Russians' idea-
I never knew that!
V
It's a mighty day for conspiracy theories. Talk about adding fuel to the fire... Body dumped in the sea? What were they thinking??? Assuming that the reports are true...
Know what? I was so busy I didn't know about this news until a pal just called around after 5pm. Let me be the first to hold my hands up and say this thread began as a "conspiracy theory". But the news seems certain, so I was wrong, and he's been alive all these years.
I don't think it makes much difference? He was only ever a figure-head, and al-Queda will live on, such as it is. Keep in mind it was never really one movement or united, but simply an idea.
The body dumped in the sea? Entirely the right thing to do, as we really do not want a shrine or memory as obviously people would make something of it.
I have to conclude in saying that these are early days - the first day. But did Pakistan, a nuclear nation, actually know where he was all along? It is possible and very disturbing.
V
I'm sure there will be loads of people who will want to fuel speculation. But I think timing is everything, and as Obama confirmed, Bin Laden location had been known for some time. Therefore I think the US didn't take him out earlier was because I think it would have strengthened the anti-american cause.
But since the Arab spring started, the USA has become more popular in the middle east, and therefore a window was created to allow Bin Laden to be taken out.
Myarka
Hi Myarka,
That's an interesting perspective. Not sure I agree, but who knows? It's something to think about.
I just have not time to follow news today, so probably everyone is ahead of me? But there is this:
http://beta.uk.news.yahoo.com/al-qaeda-leader-osama-bin-laden-killed-042212194.html
V
I think it is totally open by now that his death is real. Good riddance. Why did it take ten years?
The Pakinstani aspect - that people there were obviously protecting him - is going to be in the news for weeks to come.
V
?"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that" -- Martin Luther King, Jr
?"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that" -- Martin Luther King, Jr
Thanks for this, Sunanda. It's what I've felt about it, but this expresses it so well.
Thanks Sunanda x
Just perfect Sunanda - thank you. I've never heard that MLK quote before
?"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that" -- Martin Luther King, Jr
I agree it is a good quote, but, not all from Dr. King:
http://www.salon.com/technology/twitter/?story=/ent/tv/feature/2011/05/03/fake_mlj_quote_osama_death
[DLMURL] http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Osama-Bin-Laden-Martin-Luther-allthingsd-413167262.html?x=0&.v=1&.pf=retirement&mod=pf-retirement [/DLMURL]
?"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that" -- Martin Luther King, Jr
Nice words, very very often a good idea in life, but too glib to quote here just IMHO.
The United States, the West, basically in a way the whole world, was attacked on 9/11 - but on numerous other occasions. It is right for the figure-head behind all this to be gotten rid of. There was a deep need for closure.
It sends out a message that we are not "victims" there for the attacking, who cannot respond, but we'll always respond. THAT is the way to Peace. To make that clear. That we are not passive at any time.
Take WW2, should we just have allowed invasion of our nation? Ridiculous. If you have children or family, you surely want them protected. True, there's still a long road ahead in this complex 'conflict', but pacificism would be a simply ridiculous response.
V
Regardless of whether or not Martin Luther King said those words, they express my sentiments exactly. I find nothing glib in stating that I cannot rejoice in the death of another human being. And I think the ongoing 'pacifism is ridiculous' argument is both specious and off topic in this thread.
My beliefs are my own; I ask no one to adopt them but neither do I wish to be ridiculed for holding them.
You know, death is not real, in the sense of the Eternal.
So Osama bin Laden (as a recently deceased friend of my mother's, with Alzheimer's called him, "Bin Liner") is alive and well in the ultimate sense.
It's not a tragedy in the Eternal sense. He's gone to meet those who govern Karma, and he's gone to learn before he returns. They will have words to say and lessons to give him. Personally as someone who hopes to be a spiritual person, I have no ill-feeling towards him at all. But I can see the practical need for this closure in this limited world of time and space.
V